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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
 Posted - 01/06/2017 : 10:58:42
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Okay, it's SLOOOOOOW! Anyway, I've been having a discussion with a friend whose son is a 15u pitcher. In his opinion the pitcher controls which pitch he wants to throw and the catcher better get on board with his way of thinking because the pitcher controls the game.
In my opinion the catcher is the only player who sees everything on the field and has the umpire right there saying things like "little bit outside", and since the catcher has more information available he should control the game. Now of course if the pitcher isn't feeling his curve ball at the moment he should feel free to shake off the catchers recommendation and they should chat in between innings about that. But high, low, outside, inside, fastball, change up.....I think the catcher should be telling the pitcher what to throw.
Your thoughts? |
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ump4life
12 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2017 : 12:08:40
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| Being a guy who pitched at a pretty high level I believe that the pitcher has the last call on what is being thrown. The pitcher and the catcher talk after the warm-up is complete and decide on what is working that day...both need to know what the out pitch is. Once they work with each other a little bit then the catcher will know what the pitcher wants in certain situations. All hitters have a weakness, and the same can be said for all pitchers...but in the end I want my pitcher pitching to his strength even if it is in line with the batters strength. I feel like hitters will get themselves out most of the time as long as pitchers make good pitches. He is more apt to make a solid pitch if he truly believes in it. I don't want him throwing what the catcher puts down, but in the back of his mind through the delivery thinking I wish I was throwing something else. Just my thoughts. |
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RoamingCF
77 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2017 : 16:53:36
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| Obviously, the P and C are normally aligned (at higher levels), but it's the pitchers call. |
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teddy41
421 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2017 : 12:17:50
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| Like it or not in HS and somewhat in college and even pro ball coaches call them, YOu always see catcher look to dugout before giving sign. YEs there are exceptions but mostl.y it's coaches |
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bfriendly
376 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2017 : 15:50:13
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quote:
Originally posted by teddy41
Like it or not in HS and somewhat in college and even pro ball coaches call them, YOu always see catcher look to dugout before giving sign. YEs there are exceptions but mostl.y it's coaches
You often hear comments on how certain catchers call the games(MLB). But qhen the pitcher is shaking off signs its clear that they are making the final decision........but I have to agree with this^^^^
It is the coaches that predominantly call the pitch they want thrown. Surely if that is the case, the pitching coach and the HC are making the determination on whats working on a particular day and what is not........
I read a story where a coach at a very high level would ask the catcher after the game what pitch he called and why............it was as though the catcher would have to remember EVERY pitch called and why he called it.............Every pitch |
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ump4life
12 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2017 : 17:13:54
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| When a catcher in professional baseball looks to the dugout for a sign he is not getting what pitch to throw...he is getting whether or not the coaches want a pickoff, pitchout, bunt coverage or 1st and 3rd defense. Just wanted to get that out there...they allow the pitchers to call games. |
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BaseballMom6
233 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2017 : 22:50:03
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While a pitcher certainly can shake off a pitch if they don't agree with the call, the catcher is the one sending the pitch call to the pitcher. So how is it that the pitcher is making the call? The pitcher/catcher absolutely need to talk and work together to be successful. I get that the pitcher may have a preference in a certain situation, but if the pitcher/catcher relationship is strong they should know that. The pitcher may only see a batter once in a game, depending on if he is a reliever or not, the catcher will see the batter on every plate appearance, so wouldn't the catcher have more knowledge about what should be pitched to a particular batter? Does the pitcher have a final say? Sure, he can shake off a pitch, but the catcher has much more info to make a decision about what pitch to make.
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2017 : 13:13:20
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quote:
Originally posted by BaseballMom6
While a pitcher certainly can shake off a pitch if they don't agree with the call, the catcher is the one sending the pitch call to the pitcher. So how is it that the pitcher is making the call? The pitcher/catcher absolutely need to talk and work together to be successful. I get that the pitcher may have a preference in a certain situation, but if the pitcher/catcher relationship is strong they should know that. The pitcher may only see a batter once in a game, depending on if he is a reliever or not, the catcher will see the batter on every plate appearance, so wouldn't the catcher have more knowledge about what should be pitched to a particular batter? Does the pitcher have a final say? Sure, he can shake off a pitch, but the catcher has much more info to make a decision about what pitch to make.
This is kind of where I was going. Yes, the pitcher can of course shake off the catcher but the catcher has to know what is coming. They have to be in tune. |
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BBall123
395 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2017 : 13:54:17
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mikepayne
173 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2017 : 10:48:10
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I would guess that 70% of the coaches are calling the pitches, some only call the pitch outs, breaking balls or pick off plays. To me another question would be- Does a coach recognize when he has a catcher that is ready run the game.
There really is no wrong answer. I personally enjoy the game more when the catcher is not waiting on the coach who is calling the game from a bucket to give him the signs then the catcher relays them to the pitcher. It speeds the game up when the catcher throws down fingers as soon as the pitcher toes the rubber. If you do not have the catcher that can read swings, understand counts and situations and run the game then I get it. Like CaCO3Girl said "it is slow", so I am just kicking the can. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2017 : 13:08:23
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| Saw a 14u game in the fall where for some reason the pitcher kept looking to the dugout. The umpire gave a warning and then stopped the game completely and said "Pitcher, you look to the catcher, catcher you can look wherever you want."......does anyone know why that is? I mean is there a rule or something that the pitcher can not look to the dugout? Granted one would think the dugout would want to hide their signs but still, thought it was weird. |
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jaguars18
245 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2017 : 13:18:47
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there are not a ton of right or wrong answers here most are depending on team.
Coaches sit with the hot/cold charts and you then have coaches positioning fielders. That is why coaches call pitches so they can have other coaches align outfield etc. Some teams have MIF do that for them.
If you watch college softball 2 people give signs..One gives to catcher other to pitcher so to save time.
FWIW my nephew caught in HS and coach called all his pitches but they also discussed such things as ..lets stay away from so and so or inside on so and so. |
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mikepayne
173 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2017 : 14:23:02
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
Saw a 14u game in the fall where for some reason the pitcher kept looking to the dugout. The umpire gave a warning and then stopped the game completely and said "Pitcher, you look to the catcher, catcher you can look wherever you want."......does anyone know why that is? I mean is there a rule or something that the pitcher can not look to the dugout? Granted one would think the dugout would want to hide their signs but still, thought it was weird.
6.1.1 Requires the pitcher to take his sign FROM THE CATCHER with his pivot foot in contact with the rubber. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2017 : 08:02:38
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quote:
Originally posted by mikepayne
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
Saw a 14u game in the fall where for some reason the pitcher kept looking to the dugout. The umpire gave a warning and then stopped the game completely and said "Pitcher, you look to the catcher, catcher you can look wherever you want."......does anyone know why that is? I mean is there a rule or something that the pitcher can not look to the dugout? Granted one would think the dugout would want to hide their signs but still, thought it was weird.
6.1.1 Requires the pitcher to take his sign FROM THE CATCHER with his pivot foot in contact with the rubber.
Well, that would be the reason....seems like an odd rule though. |
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743
215 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2017 : 13:55:34
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| When I pitched I controlled what pitch I was going to throw 90% of the time. Yes the catcher always calls the first signal or gives what he thinks is a good starting pitch, but as a pitcher you are in charge of the outcome, you control the pitches what you think will work, you know your stuff. It is sort of like a magician, he has a card already in his pocket, but he is going to make you pick that card even though you think you chose it or it was random. Most pitchers and catchers are on the same page though so its not like the pitcher is challenging the catcher and most catchers will go with it, until you give up a homerun or fat pitch them he is going to come out and chew your ass, but really it is both pitcher and catcher working together, however I say the pitcher has the most control. |
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Who's calling the pitch?14u and up?
