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bmoser
1633 Posts |
 Posted - 09/30/2009 : 09:55:50
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Pro's and con's?
The Creekview H.S. youth baseball program is set up by grade levels. I'm not sure for how long now, so it may not be a valid case study. Their teams struggle due to the how the school cutoffs align with baseballs (5-1). Their teams are always playing slightly older teams.
Does having the boys playing together from an early age and having a portion of their boys play "up" give their H.S. teams an edge?
This method seems more logical to me. Our hoops and football programs are aligned by grade (or close to it), so why not baseball?
Any Creekview folks out there? Is it working out better? |
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Jrgrizzliesbaseball
352 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2009 : 15:31:04
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Thanks for your post and question. I am the Program Director for the Jr Grizzlies baseball program and I wanted to offer my thoughts. Our program was established as a feeder program in support of the Creekview High School Grizzlies baseball program. The concept and mission is to promote baseball fundamentals and player development over win at all costs. While winning is an important part of sports, player development is our emphasis and driving force. Going into our fourth season, we have observed that we are actively feeding the high school program with quality players that have come up through our system. Character is an important factor as well.
While both approaches have merit, we have elected to choose the "grade" approach based on the philosophy that the boys will become integrated as a team with the same group of players and that we will produce competitive teams leading up to their high school years. I have coached a core group of these players since they were 5 years old. Some will not make the team and others will be added in their place. My experience is that the "core group" of players grows every year leading up to their high school years and this can only help feed the High School program with fundamentally strong players that have come up through our system. I hope this helps. For additional information, please visit us at www.jrgrizzliesbaseball.com. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2009 : 18:32:49
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JrGrizzliesBaseball Director:
Thanks for your response! Glad you took the time. In my opinion, you guys have it right. It makes so much sense. I wish the entire youth baseball community would get on board with you. However, until they do, I don't like how your boys are put at a disadvantage while playing all the "May Firsters".
I realize most of you feel its evil to strive to win a trophy, but I just can't get my mind right on that yet. I'll keep trying.
I commend your organization for daring to be different. Maybe if it continues to pay off, others will follow. B-T-W...love your park!
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Infinity
33 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2009 : 10:22:22
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I wonder how many parents would hold their son or daughter back in school just to play an age group down in sports even though they are academically capable of staying at their current grade?
No matter what the age cut off is or grade cut off......their is always going to be someone getting the short end of the stick and someone benefiting. |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2009 : 11:02:50
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BMOSER,
I don't think it is the May 1st issue that puts them at a disadvantage, compared to other teams, it is the pool from which they can pull from. You can have players that are pre-May 1st that are on the team, but if they play regular tournaments, they have to play up an age group. Now, that is not an impossible task to be successful playing up (the Astros prove that all the time) but is when you have a small pool of players to pull from.
Their model is just right for what they are trying to accomplish. Maybe other feeder programs will grow and allow for "Grade specific" tournaments so the teams can compete as they are lined up to. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2009 : 13:24:58
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INFINITY: I'd have repeaters play with their natural grade level. You're right, some parents would play the system. I wonder how the Jr. Grizzlies handle repeaters?
ALTER-EGO: Great point about the size of the talent pool's impact upon grade-level baseball. I was thinking the opposite though... that larger clusters would benefit more by grade-level ball because they have more talent to pick from. I'm thinking if a cluster had 4 Elementary schools of 1000/ea., that would be enough to pull-off a grade level program and still compete w/ "May First'ers". The Astros are pulling from the whole metro area, so they can compete.
Grade level tourneys...great idea...why didn't I think of that? That could be a fun way to mix things up from time to time. I wonder if the Grizzlies hosted one as a trial, if anyone would show up? Maybe in Fall, or an off week where there are no big events scheduled.
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mikewells
45 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2009 : 14:50:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Infinity
I wonder how many parents would hold their son or daughter back in school just to play an age group down in sports even though they are academically capable of staying at their current grade?
Oh there is one right now in the 14U division at a well known park who did this as a family decision.
Hard to believe even more hard to understand
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2009 : 15:41:33
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Mike,
You are assuming that some people's decision were based on sports. Several people that I have talked to who were contemplating this all were looking at it based on a size and maturity level standpoint, not "Hey he would be a year older when they play HS Ball."
I would say people would rarely hold kids back to affect them in sports. Mostly they would do like we did and decide to send our kid to transitional kindergarden rather than K when they are 5 to allow them an additional year of maturity so they don't go off to college when they have just turned 17. |
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justplay
6 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2009 : 16:48:28
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| My son is on track to graduate at 17. Is it or isn't it a good idea to hold him back a year? Give me your thoughts. |
Edited by - justplay on 10/01/2009 19:31:34 |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2009 : 20:38:56
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My son did kindergarden twice. He has a mid July birthday. We wouldn't have even considered it except the school recommended it due to his maturity level and academicaly (sp?) being behind most of the year. Once the idea was in our head and we had to make a decision, sports did enter the picture to a small, ancillary way. Part of that was because he was small for his age. I also considered my own situation growing up. I have a September birthday, so I was actually 17 when I started college. I just thought it would be better all around for him to be a little older for his grade than a little younger.
Now, all that being said, in terms of baseball, until he was 12, he never was the age of the league he played in. The season always ended before his birthday. I think it did him a lot of good. At 12, the cutoff date changed and we played 12 again - mostly due to quality of coaching. Now his mid way in the age thing, but is - in my opinion as well as others - ahead of his age group. As a freshman last year, he was a starting Varsity pitcher for the HS team. I really attribute a lot of that to basically playing up during his early years. I think the more you are challenged, the more you will rise to the challenge. Our summer team now plays a very small number of tournaments in our own age group. We try to play at a higher level to continually challenge the kids. |
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mammabee
95 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2009 : 10:02:12
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That is awful in my opinon
does any one else think like I do??
quote:
Originally posted by mikewells
quote:
Originally posted by Infinity
I wonder how many parents would hold their son or daughter back in school just to play an age group down in sports even though they are academically capable of staying at their current grade?
Oh there is one right now in the 14U division at a well known park who did this as a family decision.
Hard to believe even more hard to understand
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2009 : 12:37:43
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mammabee,
I would suggest, before forming an opinion, getting all the facts about the "Family Decision".
I would agree that if someone said "Hey, I think I will hold my kid back so he could play sports as a year older kid." is probably not doing it for the right reason. If they want them to be a year more mature as they go through HS and entering college, then that is a different story.
BTW, I wish my parents had waited an additional year to send me to K as I have a birthday around the first of August and could have used the maturity in my studies. HS and College might have been easier because my ability to learn could have been better. |
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coachz
38 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2009 : 14:31:32
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| So, those of you that have held your son back, good choice or not? |
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12uCoach
357 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2009 : 14:57:23
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You can't look at this issue with one's heart, or ones head on academics. This is an athletic business decision.
If your child is athletic, and you believe, deep in your soul, that he could be a D-I player, then hold them back 1 year. The maturity to body and mind is tremendous. Yes, injury senior year could be a problem, but players face that every year.
And yes, while there are examples on both sides, from a business side, a coach can see that extra physical and mental maturity and make the decision. Don't wait until it's too late, and know the rules for your state if you do it once they are in school.
For those who have the August birthday child who is up a grade, I have seen both sides of that as well. Our best player at 12 (from the 2001 team) goes NAIA because he was not done growing until his Freshman year in college when most of the rest of team were seniors. But, Jason Heyward another young player up a grade was a first round pick...
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2009 : 16:05:38
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coachz,
We are extremely glad that we had our son go to transitional K at 5 rather than go to K. It has nothing to do with sports as I think it will aid him later when he gets to HS. Not to mention that is one extra year of HS he can drive himself. |
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C. MORTON
1051 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2009 : 16:31:40
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| This has to only be about sports to hold a child back..There was a news report about it on a while back..Looks like people are more worried about the SIZE of a child more than anything...How can one say a 18yr old is more mature than a 17yr old??? You have grown men and women that still act like they are 18 years old.. As the old saying goes "If you are good they will find you" |
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brownie1
17 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2009 : 19:05:30
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| Great choice for us. My son did Pre-First (between K & 1st). He has a late May birthday. Our decision at the time was based on his maturity level (he was the baby of the family) and the recommendation of the school. I have not regretted it for a moment. It has done nothing but help him academically & athletically. It never really had an impact on his sports until this year. In Rec football & basketball they have age cutoffs of Sept 1 & Jan 1 respectively - and he always played up a year on his travel ball team. In the past year we have begun to see a difference in athletics - probably because he has gone thru a growth spurt. But - he is only in the 8th grade going thru the growth spurt - as opposed to being a Freshman in high school. Overall, it has turned out to be a great decision for us both academically & athletically & I don't regret it for a moment. IMO it can do nothing but help your child - especially boys. However, I also think it is best to do it early in their school years rather than waiting until high school or middle school. |
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coachdan06
433 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2009 : 06:38:30
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Mammabe Yes I am in strong agreement with you and I think that most parents with a broad prospective on life , not just dreams of Lil Johhny playing MLB , would agree also.
Now I say this with the assumption that you oppose their holding back a child just for sports during the years of middle school , rather than in Kindergarten which is a different subject altogether.
What many parents dont understand is that their kids have so many changes physically and mentally not even yet to occur that sports will not be a priority for them soon, girls cars and hormones are a distraction. If you try to push sports they will back off even faster ,that is the difference between 12 13 14 15 and upper teen years.
Often resulting in their not playing sports in college or pro and many not even late HS years , sorry y'all but these are the facts as seen by an old guy with a lot of experience around young people and their sports.
Best To All
quote:
Originally posted by mammabee
That is awful in my opinon
does any one else think like I do??
quote:
Originally posted by mikewells
quote:
Originally posted by Infinity
I wonder how many parents would hold their son or daughter back in school just to play an age group down in sports even though they are academically capable of staying at their current grade?
Oh there is one right now in the 14U division at a well known park who did this as a family decision.
Hard to believe even more hard to understand
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2009 : 09:02:18
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What if you do it and he doesn't make the HS team?
There are a lot of good reasons to do it, but if you're doing it solely to enhance his chances of succeeding in baseball, or any other sport for that matter, well, I don't quite know what to say. Seems like priorities are askew.
Personally I wouldn't mind if the age groups in travel ball corresponded to grade level.
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Grouping by School Grade Level
