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rippit
667 Posts |
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SSBuckeye
575 Posts |
 Posted - 06/23/2016 : 12:32:11
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| This is super duper helpful. Thanks for sharing! |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2016 : 12:34:40
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| That is good stuff right there. Lays out a clear and detail path. Great find! |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2016 : 14:35:47
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It definitely gives you a solid timeline. What it doesn't do (but I will attempt to do) is give you the academic perspective among other things. Although no one asked, the following is from our experience the last two years (I'm writing some to the parents and the rest to the player himself):
D1 guys are snapped up by the Power 5 the summer before their junior year (or fall of junior year). Other D1 might wait until the summer before senior year. Some D1 guys panic and take the first offer. As hard as it is not to do, avoid this.
No experience with D2 except to say it seems they take lower GPA guys based on the NCAA guidelines but the kids are just about as talented.
Scholarships seem to be 40-60% of some "number". Determine the % of WHAT? Tuition? R&B? Everything including books and fees?
Did you know the scholarship money is divided up amongst the freshman only? After that, your college camps THAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO WORK, go toward paying your way in later years. There's a reason you are getting 1000 emails from schools telling you they want you to come to their camp. They want your money. Not you necessarily. I'm not sure how this is all legal - and somebody out there will have a different version of the truth - so go ahead. I'd like to hear your experience.
D3: beware of "offers" as you are not getting anything financially in return so there isn't much to offer except a fall roster of 60-80 guys while the coach figures out who to keep and who to ax. MAYBE you are on the bubble academically and want to go to a Cal Tech or MIT type school (this includes Ivys who make up their own rules even though they are D1 - still no athletic money) and baseball MIGHT tip the scale in your favor where admissions is concerned. In reality, the coach really has no pull if the grades aren't there even if you are Bryce Harper's clone.
I really don't see the point in playing D3 baseball unless you are just dying to play and have that extra workload on your plate and can handle it grade wise. Seems to me if you are going to a high academic D3 you are going for the degree and not for baseball. Yes it will look good on your resume though (that you played college baseball and your parents can tell everybody that their kid plays college baseball).
And if are a really smart kid going to a not so challenging D3 just to play baseball, then I don't get that either. Not saying it's wrong, but just like the part that says you should play the best competition available, it seems you should also attend the best academic college available (at the D3 level).
Beware the GPA trap. Core, HOPE, weighted, unweighted, academic are all different animals and each school looks at things differently. Most look at Core or Academic unweighted GPA but at the end of the day, the crappy semester non core grade you had as a sophomore can come back and bite you in the butt. If your kid is smart, or if your kid is average brained but a decent ballplayer so you are wondering about getting into a high academic D3, familiarize yourself with www.collegedata.com. DO IT TODAY.
If you took the SAT or the ACT and didn't do as well as you'd like, pony up the money to have someone coach you on taking the test. ASK YOUR HS COUNSELOR TO REMOVE THE LOWEST SCORE from your transcript!!!!! If you took both and your ACT is clearly your best test, you don't have to report the SAT. Make sure they take it off your transcript.
Under NO circumstances apply ED if you are going to need your fall semester grades senior year to help your case. If that D3 coach is pushing you to commit in that manor, DON'T DO IT! If he offers you a pre-read, take it. That's pretty much an offer right there. If he doesn't think you will get in, you probably won't. Some schools MIGHT listen to the coach. Some won't. Unless your crystal ball is better than mine, focus on the schools where you have a reasonable chance of being accepted WITHOUT baseball. After all, once you get to that D3 school you don't really have to play. Which leads me back to "then why do it?"
Many schools offer an ED2 app deadline and it's after fall semester senior year grades come out. But remember, if you apply ED or ED2 and are accepted, you are legally bound to attend that school - but you can go figure that one out yourself. Some schools will see a strong RD app and immediately ask you to switch to ED in order to lock you up. BE CAREFUL. If the coach had something to do with it and you love that school, then go ahead. Again, we are talking D3 here.
Either you ARE or you AREN'T D1/2 material - especially position players. If you are SLOW (7.0 AND ABOVE)except maybe for catchers, you might want to rethink things. If you pitch and can't throw 85+ consistently, you might want to rethink things.
If you are tiny and not versatile, you most likely are not D1.If you are huge and cannot move your feet, you might want to rethink things. If you cannot hit for either power or average playing HS baseball, you might want to give up completely. I don't care how good a swing you have. It's mental dude. And if you are a PO, then you are a PO. Focus on your pitching if that is what will get you into a great school.
D3:If your unweighted GPA is lower than the Zell Miller guidelines no matter what high academic school in whatever state, you might want to rethink things. If your SAT/ACT is lower than the avg. SAT/ACT for that school as seen on www.collegedata.com, you might want to rethink things.
I said all that to say this: if you are on a non-high profile summer team that has coaches or organizers telling you they will help you get "to the next level", ask them to repeat any of what you just read. I bet they can't. And if they are telling you anything contrary to what I just wrote, then they are selling you beach front property in Kansas.
It's up to you to advocate for yourself. Coaches can tell if your parents are sending all the emails. Coaches don't mind if you call them. They do mind if your parents call them. Be proactive. If your parent has to do it for you, you must not want to play college baseball that bad.
If you as a parent have read all of this and want some real life examples, feel free to message me. I'll tell you the real truth about the last 13 years! |
Edited by - rippit on 06/24/2016 15:01:03 |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2016 : 15:09:23
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| Dang rippit...sounds like you have had it rough. I hope it all worked out for your kid. |
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BREAMKING
323 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2016 : 15:35:11
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| Nice post rippit that is the way it really is. |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2016 : 15:46:47
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
Dang rippit...sounds like you have had it rough. I hope it all worked out for your kid.
No really it's all fine in the end. We just learned a lot very late in the process and I thought it would be helpful to share so others might avoid the same pitfalls.
Options are good to have! You just have to know ahead of time what those options are and who you can and cannot trust. People trying to take your money aren't always to be trusted regardless of what they say and how long they've been saying it. That's just one part of it though. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2016 : 16:01:58
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| rippit has it on point. Baseball is a nasty business. The recruiting process used to be a lot easier, but not anymore. Shame. It's not as clean a sport as people think it is. |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2016 : 16:19:19
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Thanks guys. The nastiness for us came more from the travel ball world lying their ARSES off at every turn. Once the checks cleared? Nothing.
While I would love to change the world in that regard, and I actually tried once, it's only going to get worse.
My simple advice? Unless you are on a super high profile summer team - and you know who they are - the scouts WILL NOT KNOW YOUR NAME - unless you send them video (do some research before shooting it), send them your summer schedule, keep them appraised of your summer schedule especially when the tournament brackets are released. Stay in contact with them.
YOU have to be proactive in this recruiting thing. Playing at PG? Tell them! Then tell your on field coach that so and so is coming to see you so you aren't stuck in a dugout with 27 other guys because it wasn't your turn to play that day. SERIOUSLY. Communicate.
Learn the difference between a legit email response and an auto invite to their camps so they can make money off you. But DO go to as many camps as your schedule and budget permits. US? Target schools your son can realistically get into or play for.
There is more...I'll be back. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2016 : 16:22:56
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quote:
Originally posted by rippit
Did you know the scholarship money is divided up amongst the freshman only? After that, your college camps THAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO WORK, go toward paying your way in later years. There's a reason you are getting 1000 emails from schools telling you they want you to come to their camp. They want your money. Not you necessarily. I'm not sure how this is all legal - and somebody out there will have a different version of the truth - so go ahead. I'd like to hear your experience.
Rippit, most of what you said I pretty much agree with. However, what I highlighted above just isn't true. For D1, they get the equivalent of 11.7 scholarships to be divided up among no more than 27 players with a minimum of 25% if a player gets anything. For D2, they get the equivalent of 9 scholarships with no minimum amount and no maximum number of players. Schools do not spread them among freshmen only. Money from camps does help the program and help pay some extra money to assistant coaches, but the money does NOT go to the players. If it did, it would still count towards the 11.7 or 9 equivalency numbers. Doesn't matter where the money comes from - fund raisers, donations, camps, the school or if they find it on the side of the road. If they give money to a player, it counts against the equivalency scholarship money. If a school is doing otherwise, they are violating NCAA rules.
So, there are players throughout every class that have money. It would be VERY, VERY unusual for a team to give the freshman class the whole 11.7 or 9 equivalency and all the sophomores, juniors and seniors got nothing. Just doesn't happen.
If you have an issue with what I said, let me know, but this is the case... |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2016 : 17:03:02
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No issues per se. I'm just relating what a power 5 parent (multiple player experience) said. Then I tried doing the math. The math works better using your 27 max player scenario (43% per player), but college teams carry 35 guys right?
So 8 get nothing?
next I'd like to have a discussion about the Zell Miller vs regular HOPE scholarship monies and the reqts. to keep them once in college. That'll be fun!
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
quote:
Originally posted by rippit
Did you know the scholarship money is divided up amongst the freshman only? After that, your college camps THAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO WORK, go toward paying your way in later years. There's a reason you are getting 1000 emails from schools telling you they want you to come to their camp. They want your money. Not you necessarily. I'm not sure how this is all legal - and somebody out there will have a different version of the truth - so go ahead. I'd like to hear your experience.
Rippit, most of what you said I pretty much agree with. However, what I highlighted above just isn't true. For D1, they get the equivalent of 11.7 scholarships to be divided up among no more than 27 players with a minimum of 25% if a player gets anything. For D2, they get the equivalent of 9 scholarships with no minimum amount and no maximum number of players. Schools do not spread them among freshmen only. Money from camps does help the program and help pay some extra money to assistant coaches, but the money does NOT go to the players. If it did, it would still count towards the 11.7 or 9 equivalency numbers. Doesn't matter where the money comes from - fund raisers, donations, camps, the school or if they find it on the side of the road. If they give money to a player, it counts against the equivalency scholarship money. If a school is doing otherwise, they are violating NCAA rules.
So, there are players throughout every class that have money. It would be VERY, VERY unusual for a team to give the freshman class the whole 11.7 or 9 equivalency and all the sophomores, juniors and seniors got nothing. Just doesn't happen.
If you have an issue with what I said, let me know, but this is the case...
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BaseballMom6
233 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2016 : 18:04:19
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Am I mistaken or is the NCAA scholarship numbers the amount of scholarships allotted for each class. Meaning that at D1 you could have 11.7 scholarships for each class year? Or at any given time are only 11.7 players on the squad receiving scholarships?
Also having played a sport at the D3 level, I take issue with the why play. The reality is that some people just truly enjoy the sport they play and would like the opportunity to play a little longer. To be a part of something at their school, no different than playing in HS. Perhaps the player simply is more focused on their academics and wants the opportunity to play as well.
Every decision regarding playing a sport in college does not just have to be about the money. As you made clear, there is not much money to be had. So you should help your player make the decision that best helps them achieve what they want, keeping in mind that only a hand full of these guys will make it past college regardless of where or what level they play. However, they all need to be able to make a living and support themselves when they leave college, or make sure you are ready to support them. :-) |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2016 : 21:36:29
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quote:
Originally posted by rippit
No issues per se. I'm just relating what a power 5 parent (multiple player experience) said. Then I tried doing the math. The math works better using your 27 max player scenario (43% per player), but college teams carry 35 guys right?
So 8 get nothing?
next I'd like to have a discussion about the Zell Miller vs regular HOPE scholarship monies and the reqts. to keep them once in college. That'll be fun!
Correct. In D1, 8 players get no athletic money. Coaches are always looking for players that are high academic and will get a bunch of academic money so they can save baseball money for guys who wouldn't get much if any academic money.
I understand that you just have to keep a certain GPA to keep the HOPE money. I'm not real familiar with it though, my son was never much of a high academic achiever.
quote:
Originally posted by BaseballMom6
Am I mistaken or is the NCAA scholarship numbers the amount of scholarships allotted for each class. Meaning that at D1 you could have 11.7 scholarships for each class year? Or at any given time are only 11.7 players on the squad receiving scholarships?
The 11.7 applies to ALL players on the team, not by class. At any given time, there are 11.7 equivalency scholarships on the team spread among up to 27 players - in D1. Any given player in D1 must get at least 25% if they get anything. So, as I said above, there will always be AT LEAST 8 players who are not getting any athletic money on the roster. In D2, there are 9 equivalency scholarships. All players on the roster can get some and there is no minimum. So, a coach can give a guy 5% to help with books if he wants.
Mom, I agree with your statements about D3. There are more reasons to play in college than just getting a scholarship. The other thing about D3s is that they are often private institutions and have A LOT more academic money than a lot of D1 and D2 schools. So, many kids wind up with more financial help than they would have had going to a D1 or D2 school - if they are a good student. I also agree that there are more reasons to play than just the money. Some kids may just want to keep playing, regardless of whether they get money or not... |
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BaseballMom6
233 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2016 : 22:37:48
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| rippit - if you have a HS player he should have a gacollege411 account. If you haven't created a parent account you can. Or just log into his. Take a look at the links for Hope and it will give you all the info that you need. Basically Zell Miller minimum is 3.7 core GPA, Regular Hope requires 3.0 at graduation, plus rigor requirements, they both require maintaining a minimum 3.0 college GPA to keep the scholarship. The Zell Miller pays a larger portion than the standard Hope. |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2016 : 10:35:34
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| All fantastic advice... thanks for taking the time to lay it out there! |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2016 : 14:35:18
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He's graduated and matriculating in August thanks to Zell Miller so I know what the rules are. My statement was coming from the part of my brain that wonders how some kids who are relying on HOPE on top of the 40ish% they are getting at a school above their level academically will manage to keep it. When a school in GA lowers admission standards for athletes it seems like it would be pretty hard to keep that HOPE money if you carried a 3.0 in HS without taking even an honors class.
To the D3 discussion, I didn't mean to imply there is anything wrong with playing D3 sports. Many do. For some, it just complicates things when you are at a really high academic school. The uppity hard school I attended back in the dark ages is now a D1 school, but back then it was NAIA and I got very little money. I just wanted to play, but my grades did suffer. My academics couldn't have gotten me in that school alone, the sport did. When I decided I'd had enough of the sport, I left the school (my choice - they didn't make me leave). I just want folks to consider all sides of the issue.
Now that gacollege411.org has been brought up, it did feel like a full time job helping the kid keep up with all of the following accounts, logins and passwords not to mention the communications from the schools both coaches and admissions reqts:
NCAA Clearinghouse
CSS profile
FAFSA
EFC
Parent FSA ID
Student FSA ID
AP scores
SAT/ACT scores
commonapp.org
And there might be more but I'm starting to block it out! My brain got tired.
I will say this about the academic money...out of state schools really ponied up to level the financial playing field. We found that each school(well most anyway) coughed up just enough merit money so that our out of pocket would be roughly the same as attending a state school with the HOPE/Zell Miller. I'm talking a low of 15K to upwards of 35K PER YEAR.
I've heard rumors that the Ivys float "leadership" scholarships to athletes and you can actually "bargain" with a school if another school offers more. Would have been fun to play that little game.
quote:
Originally posted by BaseballMom6
rippit - if you have a HS player he should have a gacollege411 account. If you haven't created a parent account you can. Or just log into his. Take a look at the links for Hope and it will give you all the info that you need. Basically Zell Miller minimum is 3.7 core GPA, Regular Hope requires 3.0 at graduation, plus rigor requirements, they both require maintaining a minimum 3.0 college GPA to keep the scholarship. The Zell Miller pays a larger portion than the standard Hope.
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rippit
667 Posts |
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Shut Out
512 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2016 : 17:54:50
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One key thing about camps. If you don't know what schools will be there ahead of time; don't go. Assuming you do know what schools will be represented your player should reach out prior to the camp letting them know who you are and that you are interested in their school. Explain why and it should be just because I want to play for your team. Make sure in the subject line of your email give basic info. Grad year/ position/ GPA. Any legitimate coach should respond to emails if you give them enough time. Let them know you are looking forward to discussing his teams needs for your graduation year. They could be the best school for you but if they don't need your position that year oh well.... (unless of course you are a pitcher; no such thing as too many) If you are a upper classman and the coach hasn't been communicating to you at all but you get an invite to the camp assume it is BS/ a money grab/ don't go. While they will say that a large % of their players come from their camps; that may sound all well and good but if the coach hasn't called, texted, communicated to your coaches to personally invite you and you just get the spam email invite your chance of being selected at the camp as a kid they want to offer is like be struck by lightning.
If you are a PO who but you still think you are a position player and your not playing every inning of every game on your varsity team and your travel team let me be the bad guy. You are a PO embrace it and be the best dang PO there is.
Always email your game schedules once the tournaments game times have been posted to the head coaches and assistant that coordinates the recruiting. While some head coaches like to be visible don't be down if all your communication is with the assistants. In most cases it is the feed back from the assistants that will make the head coaches decision on an offer.
Make sure you are qualified. Complete the clearinghouse paperwork ahead of time. Take your ACT/SAT as many times as you need to get your score as high as you can. When in life do you ever get that many do-overs? Take advantage of it. Any time a coach reaches out make sure you follow up regardless of your interest. Communicate; be an adult; stay off social media. Consider anything you put on social media as something you would be willing to show your girlfriends father about you. If you wouldn't show it to him don't post it. Do your homework on the academics don't ask them what type of majors they have. do the research - treat it as a job interview for your once in a lifetime dream job. Wake up you may be a great player but there are 500 just like you. Run as fast, hit has hard, throw as great, great gpa. End of story; stand out. when you have an opportunity suit up; show up and own it like a man! |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2016 : 20:54:16
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| Shut out: PREACH! |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2016 : 07:38:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Shut Out
One key thing about camps. If you don't know what schools will be there ahead of time; don't go. Assuming you do know what schools will be represented your player should reach out prior to the camp letting them know who you are and that you are interested in their school. Explain why and it should be just because I want to play for your team. Make sure in the subject line of your email give basic info. Grad year/ position/ GPA. Any legitimate coach should respond to emails if you give them enough time. Let them know you are looking forward to discussing his teams needs for your graduation year. They could be the best school for you but if they don't need your position that year oh well.... (unless of course you are a pitcher; no such thing as too many) If you are a upper classman and the coach hasn't been communicating to you at all but you get an invite to the camp assume it is BS/ a money grab/ don't go. While they will say that a large % of their players come from their camps; that may sound all well and good but if the coach hasn't called, texted, communicated to your coaches to personally invite you and you just get the spam email invite your chance of being selected at the camp as a kid they want to offer is like be struck by lightning.
If you are a PO who but you still think you are a position player and your not playing every inning of every game on your varsity team and your travel team let me be the bad guy. You are a PO embrace it and be the best dang PO there is.
Always email your game schedules once the tournaments game times have been posted to the head coaches and assistant that coordinates the recruiting. While some head coaches like to be visible don't be down if all your communication is with the assistants. In most cases it is the feed back from the assistants that will make the head coaches decision on an offer.
Make sure you are qualified. Complete the clearinghouse paperwork ahead of time. Take your ACT/SAT as many times as you need to get your score as high as you can. When in life do you ever get that many do-overs? Take advantage of it. Any time a coach reaches out make sure you follow up regardless of your interest. Communicate; be an adult; stay off social media. Consider anything you put on social media as something you would be willing to show your girlfriends father about you. If you wouldn't show it to him don't post it. Do your homework on the academics don't ask them what type of majors they have. do the research - treat it as a job interview for your once in a lifetime dream job. Wake up you may be a great player but there are 500 just like you. Run as fast, hit has hard, throw as great, great gpa. End of story; stand out. when you have an opportunity suit up; show up and own it like a man!
Thanks Shut Out, maybe my kid will understand that concept if put that way. |
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Shut Out
512 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2016 : 07:56:16
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| Typo; your reason for interest in their school SHOULD NOT be just about playing baseball. |
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Critical Mass
277 Posts |
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BaseKnock
29 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2016 : 10:17:18
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rippit
I'm glad you brought this up because I know of one player, my nephew, who took the D3 route. Coming out of HS he was good but didn't have all the attributes D1 colleges look for. His career ambitions were to be a college coach and becoming one without having played college ball is quite difficult. He went to a very good D3 school and was named to all the conference team three years while playing. He handled the workload and stayed on top of his grades at a good academic institution. Upon graduation he applied for coaching graduate assistantships at several D1 schools. During interviews he was told his academic success put him ahead of many other applicants who played D1. He landed a D1 job and grad assistant position. Since then he's completed his MBA and is a full time D1 coach.
Point being D3 can be a good route for a coaching career and makes perfect sense to anyone who loves the sport but wasn't born with the size/speed to play at the D1 level.
quote:
Originally posted by rippit
I really don't see the point in playing D3 baseball unless you are just dying to play and have that extra workload on your plate and can handle it grade wise. Seems to me if you are going to a high academic D3 you are going for the degree and not for baseball. Yes it will look good on your resume though (that you played college baseball and your parents can tell everybody that their kid plays college baseball).
And if are a really smart kid going to a not so challenging D3 just to play baseball, then I don't get that either. Not saying it's wrong, but just like the part that says you should play the best competition available, it seems you should also attend the best academic college available (at the D3 level).
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NF1974
62 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2016 : 16:40:26
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| I want to echo some of the comments on here about playing at D2 or D3. My son currently plays at a high academic D3 school. He loves it. He can handle the work load and the coaches know that academics come first. His coaches all teach in addition to coach. My message to parents is to have an honest evaluation of your sons ability. It is very difficult to play in college at any level and your kid has to be really good to play D1. The experience that my son is having playing in college, being on a team, traveling to games , etc.. is very beneficial to him. In addition to this, it looks good on his resume. He has already gotten a summer internship because of both the school and the fact that he is on the baseball team. He has also heard of a summer internship in the front office of a major league team that was passed on to him by his coach. My son is passionate about baseball and about learning. If his dream to play in the big leagues has been met with the reality of his talent level this does not mean that he cannot continue to play the game that he loves. |
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OHS80
11 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2016 : 00:01:24
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| This is a excellent tread. Scouts are looking for athletes that are big, strong, and fast. The God given attributes. Next, is the athlete a 5 tool player. Hit for average, hit for power, defense - 90+%, arm strength, and speed. Add this to a high GPA and excellent SAT/ACT and your just getting started. It's also making sure the player is knowledgeable about the game. Do they know how to take a secondary lead properly - every time, hit there cut offs on double covers, intuitive to the ball, bunt, and do they understand how to keep a book - amazing how clear the game is when you understand the book. Every player should know their stats off Gamechanger and what every stat means. |
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dad4kids
109 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2016 : 14:21:53
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
quote:
Originally posted by rippit
No issues per se. I'm just relating what a power 5 parent (multiple player experience) said. Then I tried doing the math. The math works better using your 27 max player scenario (43% per player), but college teams carry 35 guys right?
So 8 get nothing?
next I'd like to have a discussion about the Zell Miller vs regular HOPE scholarship monies and the reqts. to keep them once in college. That'll be fun!
Correct. In D1, 8 players get no athletic money. Coaches are always looking for players that are high academic and will get a bunch of academic money so they can save baseball money for guys who wouldn't get much if any academic money.
I'm curious about the mechanics for those 8 who get no athletic money. Do they still sign a scholarship or is it is just a vague assurance of a spot on the team, as in D3 or the Ivy Leagues? As I understand D3 and Ivys, you show up with nothing but academic admission and are relying solely on the coach's promise about a spot on the team/playing time. |
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If you want to play college baseball...
