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baseballrome19
7 Posts |
 Posted - 06/04/2016 : 21:48:54
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So we just bought a mizuno bamboo classic MZB243 bbcor wood bat and we play at Perfect game Monday. Will it work or do I need to buy another that is composed only of 1 piece of wood.
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2016 : 23:35:27
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You can obviously go one piece wood, one of the Rawlings composites or the Baum composite.
The list of approved composite bats will be on the tournament page on the PG site under "bat restrictions" link. |
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Slider5
43 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2016 : 07:41:19
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WWBA Bat Restrictions
* All 13U events will be Metal bat. All bats must have a branding, label, or stamp proving BPF 1.15 or BBCOR on it. There is length to weight ratio maximum of -5 (5 ounces). NO WOOD BATS
WWBA - Wood Bat Tournaments (14U-18U)
Wood bat only. Must be composed of a single piece of wood with the exception of the following composite wood bats
Rawlings
5150 Composite Pro Wood WC5150
Big Stick R243CH
VELO Composite Wood R110CV
VELO Composite Wood R110CH
Rawlings Composite 243MBS
Rawlings Maple/Bamboo Composite 271 MBC
Rawlings Maple/Bamboo Composite SL151V
Baum
AAA Pro Baum Bat |
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bluesman43
6 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2016 : 09:12:35
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Last year I sent an email to PG asking if bamboo was OK and they replied that it was even though it doesn't necessarily say that on the bat restrictions page. Several of our boys have used bamboo bats this year at 14u wood bat events without questions being raised.
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baseballrome19
7 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2016 : 12:28:15
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| Thanks everyone for the help! |
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sebaseball
101 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2016 : 18:15:33
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I can't think of one legitimate reason to only allow wood/composite bats from Rawlings & Baum. My guess is that those are sponsors of PG & they are trying to force players to buy a bat at the park if they don't already have a Rawlings or Baum bat. Wood is wood and composite wood is composite wood and they're all gonna play the same as far as exit velocities. I'd tell you to swing what you have. Nobody is going to protest your son's bat because it's made by Mizuno.
Now, if you drill a hole in the end of the bat and pack it full of Super Ball shavings, that would be a different story.... |
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Marlin
109 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2016 : 21:30:52
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| There was quite a few different brands of wood available at last years WWBA. The big names like LS & Rawlings , a very small company that I don't remember the name, evoshield had bats there also. May have been one or two more. Didn't seem exclusive to any one company. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2016 : 07:50:08
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quote:
Originally posted by baseballrome19
So we just bought a mizuno bamboo classic MZB243 bbcor wood bat and we play at Perfect game Monday. Will it work or do I need to buy another that is composed only of 1 piece of wood.
I'd be interested to hear if the bat was allowed. My understanding is if it wasn't ONE solid piece of wood it had to be one of the specific bats they had tested. Please update this. |
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baseballready
188 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2016 : 11:38:05
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Yeah - I found it odd that they (WWBA, PG, LakePointe - noting they are separate entities) had specific bat requirements and yet a multitude of vendors on-site selling wood bats which were, presumably, not allowed for play.
quote:
Originally posted by Marlin
There was quite a few different brands of wood available at last years WWBA. The big names like LS & Rawlings , a very small company that I don't remember the name, evoshield had bats there also. May have been one or two more. Didn't seem exclusive to any one company.
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baseballrome19
7 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2016 : 13:01:03
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| We play tonight but we are going to return it and just simply buy one that is allowed. I do find it very weird only a few brands are allowed. Personally I think any bamboo or composite should be allowed. They don't break easily which makes them safer to every one else. But I guess it has to do with sponsors. Thank you everyone for the feedback! |
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Ross
60 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2016 : 14:56:22
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| Only real wood should be allowed then you eliminate all these questions. If you are calling it a "wood" bat tournament then why would composite bats be allowed at all? |
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baseballrome19
7 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2016 : 14:37:02
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| I agree Ross |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2016 : 16:07:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Ross
Only real wood should be allowed then you eliminate all these questions. If you are calling it a "wood" bat tournament then why would composite bats be allowed at all?
Two things. One is, PG tried that and got a lot of complaints. That is why they started to allow some composite bats.
2ndly, when talking about composite, you are still talking about a bat made out of wood. At least the hitting surface is made of wood. A Bamboo bat is made out of Bamboo wood. But because of the composition of the wood, they basically layer it and glue it together. It is not one solid piece of wood, but more of a laminate. It's still wood, but not a solid piece. The other composite example are those bats that have some kind of man made material for a handle, but a wood barrel. You're still hitting with wood, but the man made handle is less prone to break.
Bottom line, we're really not talking about some kind of metal composite, but a wood composite. Still wood, but how it is put together is different. |
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Ross
60 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2016 : 17:59:53
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PG gets a lot of complaints about the parking fee as well but they have not and should not cave on that one.
Rule 1.10(a) states: The bat shall be a smooth, round stick not more than 2.61 inches in diameter at the thickest part and not more than 42 inches in length. The bat shall be one piece of solid wood.
Man up swing a real wood bat. Composite wood bat is a cop out. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2016 : 20:02:45
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To clarify. Lake Point owns the complex. They charge the parking fee, not Perfect Game. PG has talked to them about it, but Lake Point is the one not giving in on it.
I think the rule you quoted was the MLB rule. As I said, PG went from any wood bat to the rule you quoted. They got some blowback from that and changed their rules somewhat. I don't think everyone will be happy regardless of what the rules are.
Below is one of the "composite" bats I was referring to. It says it is legal in short A season and rookie ball. These are low level MiBL leagues. If they can use it, not sure why HS kids can't. Sure would save money on broken bats and it hits the same as wood. It is BBCOR certified.
http://www.demarini.com/en-us/baseball/bats/D110-Pro-Maple-Composite/ |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2016 : 08:48:52
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
quote:
Originally posted by Ross
Only real wood should be allowed then you eliminate all these questions. If you are calling it a "wood" bat tournament then why would composite bats be allowed at all?
Two things. One is, PG tried that and got a lot of complaints. That is why they started to allow some composite bats.
2ndly, when talking about composite, you are still talking about a bat made out of wood. At least the hitting surface is made of wood. A Bamboo bat is made out of Bamboo wood. But because of the composition of the wood, they basically layer it and glue it together. It is not one solid piece of wood, but more of a laminate. It's still wood, but not a solid piece. The other composite example are those bats that have some kind of man made material for a handle, but a wood barrel. You're still hitting with wood, but the man made handle is less prone to break.
Bottom line, we're really not talking about some kind of metal composite, but a wood composite. Still wood, but how it is put together is different.
Technically, bamboo is not wood, it is a grass. That's actually where some of the "confusion" around wood bats came into play and why PG chose to use the MLB definition of being turned from a single billet of wood for use.
Many composite wood bats are wood barrel and fiberglass handle. Then consider the Baum bats actually have a foam plastic core running up the length of the center of the bat. Jerry's first reaction to ban one was to ban all so that umpires wouldn't have to try and figure out every bat stepping to the plate. He since seems to have relaxed that stance and is closer to his original restriction of "anything fairly close to wood" is playable.
Allowing all these composite options definitely makes it harder on the umpire to try and determine if what is being used is legal. Personally, I don't care. I haven't seen any composite provide any appreciable power advantage over a solid wood bat. As for the Baum bats, they've always seemed to sound and play dead compared to a good wood bat. |
Edited by - in_the_know on 06/09/2016 09:20:47 |
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lowandoutside
69 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2016 : 09:45:44
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quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
quote:
Originally posted by Ross
Only real wood should be allowed then you eliminate all these questions. If you are calling it a "wood" bat tournament then why would composite bats be allowed at all?
Two things. One is, PG tried that and got a lot of complaints. That is why they started to allow some composite bats.
2ndly, when talking about composite, you are still talking about a bat made out of wood. At least the hitting surface is made of wood. A Bamboo bat is made out of Bamboo wood. But because of the composition of the wood, they basically layer it and glue it together. It is not one solid piece of wood, but more of a laminate. It's still wood, but not a solid piece. The other composite example are those bats that have some kind of man made material for a handle, but a wood barrel. You're still hitting with wood, but the man made handle is less prone to break.
Bottom line, we're really not talking about some kind of metal composite, but a wood composite. Still wood, but how it is put together is different.
Technically, bamboo is not wood, it is a grass. That's actually where some of the "confusion" around wood bats came into play and why PG chose to use the MLB definition of being turned from a single billet of wood for use.
Many composite wood bats are wood barrel and fiberglass handle. Then consider the Baum bats actually have a foam plastic core running up the length of the center of the bat. Jerry's first reaction to ban one was to ban all so that umpires wouldn't have to try and figure out every bat stepping to the plate. He since seems to have relaxed that stance and is closer to his original restriction of "anything fairly close to wood" is playable.
Allowing all these composite options definitely makes it harder on the umpire to try and determine if what is being used is legal. Personally, I don't care. I haven't seen any composite provide any appreciable power advantage over a solid wood bat. As for the Baum bats, they've always seemed to sound and play dead compared to a good wood bat.
I'm all for wood or composite, don't see the big deal actually. But wouldn't it be easier to have one clear rule and have the umpires inspect the bats before the game begins? Years ago when we played Dizzy Dean and got to the state and national levels the umpires inspected every bat for cracks and dents. Seems like a relatively quick fix. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2016 : 10:47:42
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Rule should probably be something along the lines of "wood or wood composite - BBCOR certified". As I've implied earlier, I'm fine with the fiberglass handle as it REALLY helps with bat breakage, but still hits like wood. I think that's the way it originally was. I understand PG is trying to mimic MLB conditions for their MLB scouts looking for prospects, but there are FAR more players that will be going to college vs the pros. And those guys use metal BBCOR. I don't think a fiberglass handle or a wood or grass  composite bat will make that much of a difference than pure wood. |
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bluesman43
6 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2016 : 10:55:10
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This is the most complete list of BBCOR certified bats I’ve ever seen.
http://www.mme.wsu-ssl.org/certifiedbaseballbats.aspx
Frankly, if a wood bat is approved for college baseball I don’t see any reason it shouldn’t be allowed in Perfect Game. Which brings me to a gripe about PG’s approved wood bat list. The Demarini “Sugar Daddy” is a maple barrel bat with a composite handle. This makes the bat very versatile and virtually unbreakable. And being unbreakable is a definite plus in this day and age of equipment for our kids. This bat is BBCOR certified which means it’s not going to hit the ball any farther than any other BBCOR certified bat. And no, I did not pay $199 for it as I would never spend that much on a bat. So I’m going to ask the tournament if they will allow that bat since it is wood barreled and since it is BBCOR.
Also on the above list are several bamboo bats that are BBCOR certified. Not all bamboo meets that criteria, but the ones that do should be allowed at PG. Bamboo is less likely to break than ash or maple, but it will still break. And some bat companies will replace a bamboo bat within a certain time period if it breaks. (Thank you, Mizuno!) On a side note, my son will attest that bamboo causes a 2-5% drop off in the distance he can hit a ball. He may be right, or it may be in his head. But the .50 BBCOR coefficient of restitution is the max allowed, and I suppose a bat could be made that is under the max.
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Hurricane
351 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2016 : 14:41:27
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I would just use it... I doubt anyone is going to check wooden bats.
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allenbo
15 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2016 : 18:33:21
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| The only advantage to bamboo is durability. They do not improve hand eye coordination or ball exit speed. |
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aj94
182 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2016 : 09:22:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Ross
Only real wood should be allowed then you eliminate all these questions. If you are calling it a "wood" bat tournament then why would composite bats be allowed at all?
So parents don't have to deal with the expense of replacing broken bats? Is a "composite" wood bat not made of wood? I assume the purpose of a "wood" bat tournament means no metal bats not that you must use only a certain type of wood bat. |
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baseballready
188 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2016 : 10:48:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
I would just use it... I doubt anyone is going to check wooden bats.
Our team used bamboo bat last year - prior to 2016 rule revision. Used for multiple at bats without issue. Mid-game, batter roped one to right field corner for triple. Other team protested "illegal" bat. Home plate checked with tournament official - batter out.
If there is a way to gain an advantage, someone is going to take it. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2016 : 07:29:11
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quote:
Originally posted by aj94
quote:
Originally posted by Ross
Only real wood should be allowed then you eliminate all these questions. If you are calling it a "wood" bat tournament then why would composite bats be allowed at all?
So parents don't have to deal with the expense of replacing broken bats? Is a "composite" wood bat not made of wood? I assume the purpose of a "wood" bat tournament means no metal bats not that you must use only a certain type of wood bat.
You have to think what a composite wood bat could encompass. Go to a tree and widdle down a bat, a'la The Natural and you are going to get a very different bat than taking slivers of wood and gluing them together, and maybe their core isn't even the same type of wood but rather wood items that have been glued together.
It's sad but true that people will play the system in any way they can and that includes making a bat made of all "wood" that has a trampoline effect like a drop 10. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2016 : 09:38:34
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by aj94
quote:
Originally posted by Ross
Only real wood should be allowed then you eliminate all these questions. If you are calling it a "wood" bat tournament then why would composite bats be allowed at all?
So parents don't have to deal with the expense of replacing broken bats? Is a "composite" wood bat not made of wood? I assume the purpose of a "wood" bat tournament means no metal bats not that you must use only a certain type of wood bat.
You have to think what a composite wood bat could encompass. Go to a tree and widdle down a bat, a'la The Natural and you are going to get a very different bat than taking slivers of wood and gluing them together, and maybe their core isn't even the same type of wood but rather wood items that have been glued together.
It's sad but true that people will play the system in any way they can and that includes making a bat made of all "wood" that has a trampoline effect like a drop 10.
Wood bats AND wood composite bats are both BBCOR rated. You WILL NOT get a "trampoline effect like a drop 10". Also, the length to weight ratio will be the same, -3. A wood composite bat will hit like a wood bat, only most will be more durable.
The only difference might be getting that blooper over the infield on a ball hit off the end of the bat or the handle that may have broken a wood bat. But in terms of how they hit, they're the same and are held by the same standards... |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2016 : 10:52:16
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by aj94
quote:
Originally posted by Ross
Only real wood should be allowed then you eliminate all these questions. If you are calling it a "wood" bat tournament then why would composite bats be allowed at all?
So parents don't have to deal with the expense of replacing broken bats? Is a "composite" wood bat not made of wood? I assume the purpose of a "wood" bat tournament means no metal bats not that you must use only a certain type of wood bat.
You have to think what a composite wood bat could encompass. Go to a tree and widdle down a bat, a'la The Natural and you are going to get a very different bat than taking slivers of wood and gluing them together, and maybe their core isn't even the same type of wood but rather wood items that have been glued together.
It's sad but true that people will play the system in any way they can and that includes making a bat made of all "wood" that has a trampoline effect like a drop 10.
Wood bats AND wood composite bats are both BBCOR rated. You WILL NOT get a "trampoline effect like a drop 10". Also, the length to weight ratio will be the same, -3. A wood composite bat will hit like a wood bat, only most will be more durable.
The only difference might be getting that blooper over the infield on a ball hit off the end of the bat or the handle that may have broken a wood bat. But in terms of how they hit, they're the same and are held by the same standards...
bballman, I wasn't talking about the BBCOR rated composites, I was talking about the other kinds. Wooden bats that aren't drop 3. Have you seen those? Here is a link for a drop 8 wooden bat https://www.phoenixbats.com/k271-youth-wood-baseball-bat-1.html
They sell it as a YOUTH bat, but they also sell it at a 32 length. I get why PG clarified what a wooden bat was. |
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PG wood bat rule question???
