| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
gasbag
281 Posts |
 Posted - 05/11/2009 : 13:47:29
|
| OK, this is a sensitive subject but well worth the discussion as it's all about our players health. At what age should you introduce the "uncle charlie" to a youth pitcher ? Secondly, and by age, what is the recommended range for pitch count for a game and for a weekend tournament ( discounting tournament rules for innings ). |
|
|
Titan1
210 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 21:51:59
|
| My pitchers never pitch in more than one game a day unless it is one inning and the pitch limit is 65 pitchs unless they hit the mark during an at bat |
 |
|
|
bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 23:30:37
|
Gasbag,
Look under the topic heading "abhorrant pitch counts" I brought up recently for some good feedback on this topic. No hooks until your kid's shaving, and after 60 pitches/outing, its not worth the risk and don't pitch kids on consecutive days. Don't count on kids telling you when it hurts. These are the Cliff notes from the string.
quote:
Originally posted by gasbag
OK, this is a sensitive subject but well worth the discussion as it's all about our players health. At what age should you introduce the "uncle charlie" to a youth pitcher ? Secondly, and by age, what is the recommended range for pitch count for a game and for a weekend tournament ( discounting tournament rules for innings ).
|
|
|
|
gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2009 : 09:15:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by bmoser
Gasbag,
Look under the topic heading "abhorrant pitch counts" I brought up recently for some good feedback on this topic. No hooks until your kid's shaving, and after 60 pitches/outing, its not worth the risk and don't pitch kids on consecutive days. Don't count on kids telling you when it hurts. These are the Cliff notes from the string.
quote:
Originally posted by gasbag
OK, this is a sensitive subject but well worth the discussion as it's all about our players health. At what age should you introduce the "uncle charlie" to a youth pitcher ? Secondly, and by age, what is the recommended range for pitch count for a game and for a weekend tournament ( discounting tournament rules for innings ).
Bmoser - Thanks, I did read that dialogue but I'm interested in obtaining opinions on specifics by age group. I didn't see that being addressed is why I asked. Seems to me that 60 pitches is quite a few for a 8-9 year old kid to throw and maybe too low for a 14 year old kid to throw. ie
8U - ?
9U - ?
10U- ?
11U - ?
12U- ?
13U - ?
14U - ? |
|
|
|
ItsjustLLBBall
119 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2009 : 09:49:14
|
I always find it amusing to hear people talk about something they really don't know anything about. Of course the safe way is to eliminate the possibility of hurting your arm by not throwing a curve, but let's face it, the number one reason for hurt arms these days is overuse. And when I say overuse, I mean pitching in a 60-80 game season and being forced to pitch multiple times in one weekend or week. The second reason is throwing an offspeed pitch whether it be a curve ball or a slider, incorrectly. You will find most instructors will tell you stay away from the curve ball until they are older and I'll tell you why. The actual reason why is because they don't think your kid is smart enough to understand how to throw it correctly and they don't want to be blamed for a subsequent hurt harm because they just won't listen because they they think they know everything. Coaches think that pitching a child three times in one weekend is ok. Well it isn't, no matter how many pitches they throw. The exertion of pitching is likened to weightlifting because of the muscle tearing it causes in the shoulder and we all know you shouldn't weightlift three days in a row on one body part and you shouldn't do it before puberty.
There is a really easy self test you can do, put your finger on the tendon right above the elbow in your forearm on the inside, the ulna(or Tommy John tendon), now extend your arm and snap your wrist like you are releasing a fastball or turn your hand at the end like you are releasing a slider, both make the tendon get extremely tight. Now take your hand, make a C with your pointer and middle fingers together and instead of pointing your fingers straight, turn the C so it faces you and now pull your elbow toward your waist from a throwing angle, the tendon does not move at all if you keep your arm at that angle. All you are doing is letting the ball roll out of the C and pulling down on the laces. That causes no stress to your ulna if thrown correctly. This is a proven theory and people should know more about this.
Bottom line, if you have chosen to let your kid pitch, some kind of pain is going to be part of his life forever now. It's how you deal with that pain and how you can monitor the severity of it. You can hurt your arm worse by pitching 6 innings in a three day weekend moreso than pitching six innings in one day. The focus of the arm problem epidemic I think is being misguided for some reason and I am not sure why. I don't disagree with waiting on teaching a curveball to a young kid because in all honesty, most kids aren't smart enough, but I would be more concerned with how many times he pitches a little bit more. |
|
|
|
Reggie
70 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2009 : 10:55:41
|
| i saw a pitcher in lagrange this weekend throw about 70 something pitches @10 years old. |
|
|
|
tater77bug
133 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2009 : 12:16:23
|
| I go with bmoser here....teach change ups and fastballs....and never ever belief the kid when he says he is fine....set yourself a set of quality standards and live by them...9u-10u 50 pitches an outing....11u-13u 65 an outing...never more than 2 short outings a day....it also means you will have to find yourself a bunch of pitchers....there for development is key....strikes!!!Location!!! |
|
|
|
Peanutsr
171 Posts |
|
|
TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2009 : 14:49:43
|
For what it's worth, our park (Mill Creek) instituted pitch count limitations a couple of seasons ago. They are as follows:
7yo-35
8yo-50
9,10yo-60
11,12yo-75
There are also rest rules depending on how much they throw, maximum being 72 hours. I know this isn't travel but thought I would throw it out there anyway.
I have also heard that the coach or parent look for signs of fatigue, mostly loss of velocity on their fastballs. When fatigue sets in, each pitch after that is supposed to equal throwing 3 pitches so the strain is multiplied by 3 from that point on. Kids who properly utilize their lower bodies instead of throwing "all arm" are likely to fatigue less quickly in their arms. |
|
|
|
bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2009 : 07:48:41
|
I keep the score book for our team, and I saw 85 by a 10U player 2 weeks ago. His team lost, so his Coaching Dad gained nothing from it.
In keeping the book, and getting to know which players are the Coaches sons, I see Coaches having their own sons throw more pitches than rest. Of course they are typically better too, so that could explain why. I just dont like seeing any boys going much over 60 pitches.
quote:
Originally posted by Reggie
i saw a pitcher in lagrange this weekend throw about 70 something pitches @10 years old.
|
|
|
|
Dr. Old School
314 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2009 : 09:44:30
|
As a rule that is good. But you should be more worried about the kid that is at 35 pitches and his arm slot has dropped, and he is laboring, than the kid who throws effortlessly and is at 70 pitches.
If a kid is outside at home and is throwing a tennis ball up against a wall for an hour or so, which results in about 100 throws, is that better on his arm that throwing 80 pitches in the game using the same effort.
Pay more attention to the kids motion and mechanics than the # of pitches. Especially the pitchers with a violent delivery. If a pitcher has a gliding delivery, he is most likely putting less stress on his arm, particularly the rotator cuff (the thing that throws the brakes on to keep your arm from flying off) than a pitcher that has an abrupt motion.
|
|
|
|
bambino_dad
119 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2009 : 19:49:20
|
I have a Leo Mazzone pitching video at home that I have used as a guide for four years.
He advocates a pitch count limit of 6 x the pitcher's age. Don't know where he got that from, but it is a guideline I've stuck with for my son. Seems to me a wise balance. |
|
|
|
whits23
596 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2009 : 22:19:09
|
| i dont buy that..i am 47 and i cant go much over 200 pitches |
|
|
|
CoachMark
216 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 14:19:42
|
Based upon its expertise and review of existing studies, the USA Baseball Medical & Safety Advisory Committee makes the following recommendations for minimizing a pitcher’s risk of future serious arm injury and maximizing his chance of success:
Recommended limits for 9-10 year old pitchers:
o 50 pitches per game
o 75 pitches per week
o 1000 pitches per season
o 2000 pitches per year
Recommended limits for 11-12 year old pitchers:
o 75 pitches per game
o 100 pitches per week
o 1000 pitches per season
o 3000 pitches per year
Recommended limits for 13-14 year old pitchers:
o 75 pitches per game
o 125 pitches per week
o 1000 pitches per season
o 3000 pitches per year
Pitch count limits pertain to pitches thrown in games only. These limits do not include throws from other positions, instructional pitching during practice sessions, and throwing drills, which are important for the development of technique and strength. Backyard pitching practice after a pitched game is strongly discouraged.
The risk of throwing breaking pitches until physical maturity requires further research but throwing curves and sliders, particularly with poor mechanics appears to increase the risk of injury.
Pitchers should develop proper mechanics as early as possible and include more year-round physical conditioning as their body develops.
A Pitcher should be prohibited from returning to the mound in a game once he/she has been removed as the pitcher.
Baseball players – especially pitchers - are discouraged from participating in showcases due to the risk of injury. The importance of “showcases” should be de-emphasized, and at the least, pitchers should be permitted time to appropriately prepare.
Baseball pitchers are discouraged from pitching for more than one team in a given season.
You can go here for more information . . .
http://www.asmi.org/asmiweb/usabaseball.htm |
|
|
|
sward
369 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 23:55:49
|
I have to second Dr. Old School (Dr. O, you should post more, your comments are on point and great for dads/coaches to see). Pitch counts are a good guide, but the pitcher's ability to maintain proper mechanics is more important.
Important Factors for young players:
Mechanics (Balance, tempo, alignment)
Leave 'Uncle Charlie' at home (safe curveballs...LOL)
Pitch Count (as a guide)
Post Game care
Proper throwing program/routine between tournaments
Time off between seasons |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Pitch Counts and Types for Youth Baseball
