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tater77bug
133 Posts |
 Posted - 05/06/2009 : 09:19:37
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I saw a very interesting article on Travel Ball Select that was written by 12u Meteors coach Ron Filipkowski...have you guys seen this???? The article talks about the growing trend of coaches paying players and parents to play on their teams....he is talking about NAtionally ranked team...he seems to have a inside to this trend as some parents are open about their pay arraingments...quote"I am talking about coaches paying parents who are from different states than their team to travel to events. Paying for their rental cars, plane tickets, gas, hotel rooms." and "even receiving cash for pocket expenses"...am I naive??? is this really happening....is this something that we are going to be faced with??? Thoughts??? |
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Titan1
210 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2009 : 11:05:31
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| I would be more surprised if this did not take place than if it did. There needs to be rules about this or they need to just make a super elite division for these teams to play in. Also wouldn't the players be considered professional at that point? |
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doublebogey
11 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2009 : 11:29:38
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It is DEFINITELY happening. Think about it. It starts with "We can't afford to go to Orlando for the tournament" and "Don't worry, we'll take Bobby, and you won't have to pay for a thing. Next its, well we really don't want Bobby to go without a Parent. "No problem, we'll get you a room and you won't pay for anything. Or "I would love to fly in to play with you, but................
The real question is, at what point is the kid endangering his status with the NCAA. Presumably he has some talent or Sugardaddy isn't paying the freight. We know if he is a senior in high school and the coach has any connection to a university that you could be looking at NCAA sanctions. What if he is a freshman??......We know freshman are being recruited these days.
Now what about 12 year olds. I assume if there is no school affiliation with the payor he would be OK, but just about everybody has some "school affilitation".
Just food for thought. |
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12uCoach
357 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2009 : 12:09:40
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I first encountered this in 1997, so it is not new. This coach from Woolsey, GA had a guy in the stands hand out business cards to parents whose kids pitched well or hit well against his team at tournaments. He was well funded from his business until it went bankrupt. A number of those kids were drafted, or are playing D-I ball so he did pick well.
Look at how many kids stay in Cooperstown week after week, someone had to poney up their money and maybe some money for their parents.
The opposite is also true, there are kids who get sent to East Cobb, amonug others, to play their summer ball instead of their local communities. |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2009 : 12:17:50
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| I would hope that this is not what travel ball is coming to. Is Coach Ron talking about just the 12U group or travel ball as a whole. I don't think that anyone should spread this type thing unless it is a fact and that they have evidence to back it up. I assist my grandchildren in their team fees and other expenses and for those of you that pay for your children to participate know how expensive it is just to get a child on the travel ball baseball field. People might say anything to get attention or to build their egos. To give you an example, During the rain delay of the Battle of the South I overheard a child from North Carolina ask one of the Chiefs where he was from. The Chief replied that the Coach had him flown in from California just to play this tournament. The truth is that this child has played every tournament with the Chiefs and is no more from California that you or I. Innocent sounding but after it gets told several times it is blown out of proportion. I would say that it would be good if we all knew the entire truth if there is any truth to this topic. |
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tater77bug
133 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2009 : 13:44:41
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| Good stuff guys....I guess I just never thought about paying a kid and his parents to play ball...there is something about it all that seems kind of seedy and more parent driven than child/player driven....on the other hand I suppose those kids get to play on a bigger scale...I suppose it increases the chances of winning trophies and the coach getting pats on the back....all you guys mentioned eligibilty concerns but who on earth could police this activity??? I have been on teams where we as a team have raised money for a kid to play becuase of personal fincial situations....but this seems different to me...paying a kid/parent to play and playing them in front of kids that have been on team all year...tricks the mind!!! |
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coachdan06
433 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2009 : 14:47:44
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quote:
Originally posted by doublebogey
It starts with "We can't afford to go to Orlando for the tournament" and "Don't worry, we'll take Bobby, and you won't have to pay for a thing. Next its, well we really don't want Bobby to go without a Parent. "No problem, we'll get you a room and you won't pay for anything. Or "I would love to fly in to play with you, but................
all this happens while everyone else on the team pays there full share?
not if Im involved with that team !
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2009 : 14:55:59
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| I used to see this 10 years ago with A and B level Softball players. I played with and against several guys who were on teams that had players coming from other states. Before they left the tournament on Sunday, they were handed their plane ticket for the following weekend's tournament, wherever that was. |
Edited by - Alter-Ego on 05/06/2009 15:56:08 |
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BREAMKING
323 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2009 : 16:01:21
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| This is nothing new. This has been going on since travel ball started. I have witnessed team all of a sudden in championship game to go to world series have pitchers just show up from another prominent league team to help out. I kinda felt sorry for the local guys team. They had no shot then. This was probably close to 14-15 years ago and if it went on then you know it is going on now. |
Edited by - BREAMKING on 05/06/2009 17:00:19 |
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op-o
41 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2009 : 16:35:03
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| I had heard a rumor about a 13U team that the coach paid for the entire team expenses. Free ride for any player on the team. Don't think it included family travel expenses, still an attractive deal. Just not sure if it was true. Team no longer exists. |
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tater77bug
133 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2009 : 16:47:27
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In reading the article....he is 12u specific but I believe he is looking at a bigger picture...all age groups with a growing trend...and he states that parents he is familar with are open about their situation....I too think it is unwise to spread rumor...that is why there are no names listed...but it is a very interesting question...and as momma said "where there is smoke, there is fire"....it can't all be rumor and conspiricisy...I personally hope that it is not happening but you guys are around a lot so that's why I posted the question....good topic for sure... quote:
Originally posted by baseballpapa
I would hope that this is not what travel ball is coming to. Is Coach Ron talking about just the 12U group or travel ball as a whole. I don't think that anyone should spread this type thing unless it is a fact and that they have evidence to back it up. I assist my grandchildren in their team fees and other expenses and for those of you that pay for your children to participate know how expensive it is just to get a child on the travel ball baseball field. People might say anything to get attention or to build their egos. To give you an example, During the rain delay of the Battle of the South I overheard a child from North Carolina ask one of the Chiefs where he was from. The Chief replied that the Coach had him flown in from California just to play this tournament. The truth is that this child has played every tournament with the Chiefs and is no more from California that you or I. Innocent sounding but after it gets told several times it is blown out of proportion. I would say that it would be good if we all knew the entire truth if there is any truth to this topic.
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balldad
43 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2009 : 22:07:20
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| This happens to be a true fact. Last year at a 9U tournament I was approched by a coach from the team we just palyed against. He told me anytime I wanted my son on their team it wouldn't cost me anything. I never went. |
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SportsDad
293 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2009 : 23:30:00
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| First heard about it 4 years ago at a elite24 tournament where some team supposedly paid some kid from CA. $10,000 dollars to pitch from them..After much catterwalling about how terible that is, we all concluded that, if our kid was that good someone wanted to pay him 10 grand to pitch for them....we would ask for it in cash, preferably small bills... |
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The One
35 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2009 : 09:24:42
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| I agree with 12 and under coach, this is nothing new. If the organization has the financial means to assist the players with travel expenses, so be it. The same thing takes place in professional sports, some organizations has the financial means to attract star players, others do not. But the game still has to be played on the field between the white lines, not in the stands. We adults need to stop worrying about what the Jones's are doing and instead work on getting our own kids/teams better. Paying the parents sound a little excessive and made up. This is no different than what takes place with AAU basketball, that's why some teams have more talent than others. |
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12uCoach
357 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2009 : 09:34:39
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quote:
Originally posted by balldad
This happens to be a true fact. Last year at a 9U tournament I was approched by a coach from the team we just palyed against. He told me anytime I wanted my son on their team it wouldn't cost me anything. I never went.
I'm curious, why would you say no? Loyalty? Current team meets you and your sons wants/needs?
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3sondad
220 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2009 : 10:36:40
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My oldest was with a team that tried to make the cost to ALL parents $0. We experienced with it in the fall. We quickly realized that if there is not a monetary commitment by the parents, the chances of them bolting if they do not get their way is 100%. So in the spring, we told all the parents it would cost $800... At the year end party everyone received all their money back.
This year there was one parent on my 10U son's team tell everyone within ear shot after the last game of the first tournament, if I did not have so much money invested we would be gone. Wow ... Don't let the gate hit you on the way out... |
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10 BB
264 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2009 : 11:55:05
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| If it would make everyone happy why not start an Elite Travel Organization where its wide open. The teams in this category would be made up with kids from all over the country. A team from Florida could have kids from Cal. or Tn. or wherever. This way if you enter an Elite tournament you know what to expect. If some rich man or even a team that has raised the money from stuff like a car wash or a pancake breakfast decide to purchase a player for a tournament. This is what youth baseball and all other sports are going to. In USSSA there is AA,AAA and Major why not Elite also. I personally think it's ok the way it is but this is an idea |
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oldmanmj
191 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2009 : 16:08:46
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| Interestingly enough there are bylaws in some of the organizations that directly state that if a player or team receives compensations for play, that team or player will be ejected from the league. There is a very grey area that we all need to be aware of, if a player or family is getting direct compensation, they are in violation. A team can have sponsors, fund raisers, etc. to offset any team or player fees. But for them to get gain specifically to play in a tournament or game, it is in direct violation. Who is watching this, no one from any board or organization. Some one could make a real mess of Travel Baseball if they truely pushed the issue. |
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sirlurker
187 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2009 : 18:42:56
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| I got a big 11 yr old left handed pitcher up on the block but dad needs a new SUV to get him back and forth to practices and games with his equipment and you know the boy needs grocery money to feed him and some spending money for after the games..any takers?...LOL! |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2009 : 20:54:12
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| I don't know about everyone else but I would rather lose playing the very best even though we pick our teams differently than to win in a lower division. To me and this is just me I want to always teach my grandchildren to reach for the gold not the silver or bronze and you can't win the gold if you are not playing in the gold division. So the rest can do what they choose but wherever the best is the Bandits will be there trying to steal their thunder and the Chiefs are already grabbing the thunder and it wouldn't surprise me if some of the Chiefs tried to grab the lightning. |
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Seam Splitter
48 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2009 : 23:35:17
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quote:
Originally posted by baseballpapa
I don't know about everyone else but I would rather lose playing the very best even though we pick our teams differently than to win in a lower division. To me and this is just me I want to always teach my grandchildren to reach for the gold not the silver or bronze and you can't win the gold if you are not playing in the gold division. So the rest can do what they choose but wherever the best is the Bandits will be there trying to steal their thunder and the Chiefs are already grabbing the thunder and it wouldn't surprise me if some of the Chiefs tried to grab the lightning.
The Chiefs better hope the lightning doesnt strike their plane.
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2009 : 09:29:39
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| Great...paying for youth talent ! What's next, kiddie steroids ? Coaches and parents are responsible for policing / keeping integrity in the game. Regardless of what pro baseball does, and what a debacle it has become, we need to protect youth athletics from "over the top" behaviour. |
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tater77bug
133 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2009 : 09:49:48
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I think we all teach our children to reach for the gold...quote:
Originally posted by baseballpapa
I don't know about everyone else but I would rather lose playing the very best even though we pick our teams differently than to win in a lower division. To me and this is just me I want to always teach my grandchildren to reach for the gold not the silver or bronze and you can't win the gold if you are not playing in the gold division. So the rest can do what they choose but wherever the best is the Bandits will be there trying to steal their thunder and the Chiefs are already grabbing the thunder and it wouldn't surprise me if some of the Chiefs tried to grab the lightning.
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2009 : 10:27:35
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| Seam Splitter: I want to meet you. You have got to be a real hoot with this response. Good reply. |
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tater77bug
133 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2009 : 10:40:43
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LOL........great post!!!quote:
Originally posted by Seam Splitter
quote:
Originally posted by baseballpapa
I don't know about everyone else but I would rather lose playing the very best even though we pick our teams differently than to win in a lower division. To me and this is just me I want to always teach my grandchildren to reach for the gold not the silver or bronze and you can't win the gold if you are not playing in the gold division. So the rest can do what they choose but wherever the best is the Bandits will be there trying to steal their thunder and the Chiefs are already grabbing the thunder and it wouldn't surprise me if some of the Chiefs tried to grab the lightning.
The Chiefs better hope the lightning doesnt strike their plane.
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Four Seam
28 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2009 : 12:08:03
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| Paying players and parents way is alive and well here in Georgia. It is one thing to help pay for a hardship case, but another to pay to win at all costs. Makes no sense to me. Only ego driven. Notes and names are being taken. These kids are really good, or they wouldn't be getting the free ride. NCAA eligibilty will come into question at some point in their careers for sure. |
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GROWING TREND-PAYING PLAYERS/PARENTS??
