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LittleDawg
91 Posts |
 Posted - 07/01/2015 : 09:34:01
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I did a quick scan of USSSA over the past 5 seasons and following age groups. Really just out of curiosity. I know not all teams register with U-trip but it's a good indication of total teams.
What I found was very interesting and not at all what I expected. Not sure how this will look formatted but here are the totals approximates as I rounded up/down because Math is hard. :-)
2011 2012 2103 2014 2015
10U 217 210 222 230 200
11U 238 236 240 250 240
12U 270 279 294 281 225
13U 231 233 268 255 215
Love having options and giving kids an opportunity to play at a higher level but are there too many teams? And is it being diluted? I think so based on the high # of A / AA classifications this year. Looks like USSSA got more stringent, which is good. There simply can't be 100 MAJOR teams at the younger age groups.
I went a little further and you definitely see a drop off in the # of teams year after year from 12U to 13U to 14U. Still a lot of teams but always less than the previous group (i.e. 14U 2015, less than 13U 2014 and so on..)
So... Too many teams? Diluted? or a good thing?
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Renegade44
211 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2015 : 10:56:41
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Diluted.
From the proliferation of for profit academy B, C, D, Blue, White, Green, Yellow, Camo, Black, Orange, and Unicorn Rainbow level teams at each profit center. |
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12uCoach
357 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2015 : 11:49:30
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I agree diluted, but IMHO, I disagree with the reason.
1. 10U and 11U kids would prefer to lay with their friends from the Rec Park they started at. When they begin to comprehend competition and that best friend Johnny is holding back the team, they will look for a higher quality team.
2. Dads who surround their pretty good players with kids whose parent like the way Big Johhny handled the Rec League team.
You have to go back to 2000 or so when NorthWest was founded by two Rec League All-star Coaches who realized that Rec-League was below their players for the next year. They were right, but then every Dad began to think that Rec League was below their kid and instead of a dozen 11U teams (1996) in Georgia, there are hundreds of 11U travel teams... |
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baldy87
118 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2015 : 16:22:55
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It's been covered in other threads - but I don't get the complaint. Too many teams???? What's the downside? The park is making money - the academy is making money - the instructors are making money - and Johnny gets to play on a pretty good baseball team.
I think it's still the marketing mentality that consumers continuously fall for. It's like frequent-flyer points - you're gold level - or platinum level. Your team is AAA but mine is Major. Your team plays in a "world series" but mine plays in an Elite 16/32/64/128. Who cares how many teams there are? There's one out there that will meet your son's needs and allow him to play at a better level than the local rec park. And there are still plenty of Major/Plutonium/Elite 128 teams out there that are truly a cut above everybody else, if that's where your son truly belongs. |
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RoamingCF
77 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2015 : 17:00:22
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| Diluted, but mostly related to awful coaching depth. Most coaches don't bring much beyond a Rec ball approach; really quite unfortunate for the kids/parents, as teams probably play too much (when practice would develop further), and most coaches don't learn their craft. |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2015 : 18:32:19
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quote:
Originally posted by RoamingCF
Diluted, but mostly related to awful coaching depth. Most coaches don't bring much beyond a Rec ball approach; really quite unfortunate for the kids/parents, as teams probably play too much (when practice would develop further), and most coaches don't learn their craft.
Because most "coaches" are the dads who think they can do it better. When their son doesn't get preferred treatment, dad takes his son and makes his own team. He doesn't know anything about baseball, but he KNOWS his kid is the next Chipper Jones, so he will ALWAYS play in the infield and bat in the top 4, because dad is making the decision. |
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zwndad
170 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2015 : 19:15:19
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Honestly, so what if it's diluted? If you look back 10-15 years ago, many of the better players stayed at their rec leagues. If you took the total number of kids playing rec baseball, you could say that youth baseball overall was diluted. But today, kids aren't stuck playing with just the kids at their local park. They can find teams to play for and against who are at their level, and they can push themselves to improve. What's wrong with that?
Now, I do agree that we probably have our kids playing in too many tournaments. Do you have to play for a trophy to play hard? I hope not. If we would spend more time in practice (teaching the right things the right way) and limit the amount of actual games, I think our kids would be better off.
But I'm all for more kids playing the game. It's a great game. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2015 : 23:11:16
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Yet every year, most of the top players make their high school team, most of those top players go on to some level of college, and most of those top players get drafted.
In the meantime, boys are getting to play America's past time at varying levels, are getting off the couch and doing something productive, and learning life lessons and memories that they'll carry for life, and with any luck, pass on to their kids.
No one is being hurt by too many kids playing baseball. |
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Newbie BB Mom
141 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2015 : 08:17:12
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quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
Yet every year, most of the top players make their high school team, most of those top players go on to some level of college, and most of those top players get drafted.
In the meantime, boys are getting to play America's past time at varying levels, are getting off the couch and doing something productive, and learning life lessons and memories that they'll carry for life, and with any luck, pass on to their kids.
No one is being hurt by too many kids playing baseball.
Amen! |
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2015 : 08:49:11
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I don't think it's too many kids playing baseball but I do agree that too many kids are playing 'travel ball.'
Why pay travel ball prices for the rec ball experience? Why not just play rec ball? Btw, I don't think there's anything wrong with playing rec ball.
Some of these organizations will continue to load up on teams and take people's money...but they only promote their premier teams. Yet Parent X thinks her kid on Team D is getting looks from colleges because he plays for this Academy Z. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2015 : 09:00:12
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There use to be a time where only the best of the best played travel ball, there were very few teams and those spots were coveted, now any kid can join a A or AA team and think they are one of the best of the best because they play travel ball. It is no longer an elite thing to participate in Travel Ball, it's just who ever wants to pay can play.
Meanwhile us normal folks wade through names trying to determine who is actually Major and who isn't. I thought for sure if I checked last years top team boards for that age group I would be able to figure it out...but of course half of the "best" team went and formed a NEW top team, so what I thought would be a top team this year turns out only to have 4 kids from last year *sigh* For those of us who want our kid on one of the best teams so they can actually explore their limits it can be a daunting process to wade through these team descriptions. Almost makes me want to pass on the July/August rat race and see what fully formed teams need people in October.
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mentalmistake
10 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2015 : 09:12:38
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| I wouldn't spend the money if my kid is 11 years old or older on A or AA, Rec with Summer All-Stars can fill the same void for less money. |
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Newbie BB Mom
141 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2015 : 10:13:08
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quote:
Originally posted by hshuler
I don't think it's too many kids playing baseball but I do agree that too many kids are playing 'travel ball.'
Why pay travel ball prices for the rec ball experience? Why not just play rec ball? Btw, I don't think there's anything wrong with playing rec ball.
Having let my kid play a little fall ball in his old rec park after several years of travel ball, I can confidently say that it is not the same experience. We have all forgotten what it was like!
In the rec parks, every team has a couple of kids who have never caught a pop fly or managed to put a bat on a ball. You have several other kids who can sometimes manage to do these things, but don't really have much interest in baseball. For a large portion of the team, this is just something their parents have signed them up for between swim team and basketball. You have coaches who never played baseball themselves. It is not the same experience as A and AA travel ball.
I don't think there's anything wrong with rec ball either, but if your kid really loves baseball and wants to take it more seriously, but isn't a an "elite," "major-level" player, there should be a place for him, too. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2015 : 10:35:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Newbie BB Mom
quote:
Originally posted by hshuler
I don't think it's too many kids playing baseball but I do agree that too many kids are playing 'travel ball.'
Why pay travel ball prices for the rec ball experience? Why not just play rec ball? Btw, I don't think there's anything wrong with playing rec ball.
Having let my kid play a little fall ball in his old rec park after several years of travel ball, I can confidently say that it is not the same experience. We have all forgotten what it was like!
In the rec parks, every team has a couple of kids who have never caught a pop fly or managed to put a bat on a ball. You have several other kids who can sometimes manage to do these things, but don't really have much interest in baseball. For a large portion of the team, this is just something their parents have signed them up for between swim team and basketball. You have coaches who never played baseball themselves. It is not the same experience as A and AA travel ball.
I don't think there's anything wrong with rec ball either, but if your kid really loves baseball and wants to take it more seriously, but isn't a an "elite," "major-level" player, there should be a place for him, too.
We had the same experience when we let our son play rec ball in the fall while his travel ball team was on break...OUCH is the best phrase that comes to mind to describe what happened on that field.
Although, I did have an A-HA! Moment when my parents came to see their grandson play at the local rec park and saw the mess that was on the field....these people who have accused me of being insane for years by allowing all of this "travel ball insanity" to rule our weekends said "We understand now why you guys do the travel ball thing, we still think it's a kind of cult, but we do understand"...A-HA! |
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AUBB
73 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2015 : 15:01:22
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Maybe an understatement, but the main reason for us to go to travel was to play a longer season. 10 rec games during April/May just wasn't enough.
If Rec programs would have a 20-25 game season, I think a lot of the 1st year/All-Star kids would stay and play in that environment.
I think Rec is ~ $175. Make it $400 and play 25 games, which is what the Lanier League and GGBL programs are more similar to.
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2015 : 18:58:13
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| Guys - there are several travel teams out there that can barely field fly balls. As a matter of fact, rec all star teams regularly beat them. IJS! |
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bfriendly
376 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2015 : 19:16:05
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
There use to be a time where only the best of the best played travel ball, there were very few teams and those spots were coveted, now any kid can join a A or AA team and think they are one of the best of the best because they play travel ball. It is no longer an elite thing to participate in Travel Ball, it's just who ever wants to pay can play.
Meanwhile us normal folks wade through names trying to determine who is actually Major and who isn't. I thought for sure if I checked last years top team boards for that age group I would be able to figure it out...but of course half of the "best" team went and formed a NEW top team, so what I thought would be a top team this year turns out only to have 4 kids from last year *sigh* For those of us who want our kid on one of the best teams so they can actually explore their limits it can be a daunting process to wade through these team descriptions. Almost makes me want to pass on the July/August rat race and see what fully formed teams need people in October.
Boy oh Boy this.....what to do what to do |
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Too many teams?
