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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
 Posted - 11/10/2008 : 09:18:21
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| I've noticed that many of the 9 & 10u ECB teams consistently pitch their pitchers a full 6 innings in the semi-finals and finals of many of the tournaments that I've been to. Considering that 15 pitches per inning is a "good inning", this equates to 90+ pitches per game, not including warmups. I'm curious to know what the reasoning for this is, considering all of the articles I read about young pitchers getting over pitched and having arm troubles. I haven't put this post here as a criticism, I am genuinely interested in knowing why this is done. Seeing how successfuly the ECB programs are, there must be very valid reasons. |
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743
215 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2008 : 10:51:50
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| I didn't see many kids pitch more than 4 innings in the 9 and 10's last season but I wasn't at the major tournaments. I have heard some people say it is better to pitch your full pitch count in one game, than to pitch 2 innings here and 2 innings there and pitch 2 the next day to hit 6 innings. That makes sense to me although I would stop most kids around the 60-70 pitch mark. I imagine in the long run it depends on each kid, some people have bad knees some dont. Some kids throw side arm all their lives and never have arm trouble. Some kids throw text book correctly and still mess up their arms. I don't know? |
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mtumlin
32 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2008 : 18:36:02
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I certainly can't speak for all the coaches over at ECB. But assumptions are never good. Each kid is totally different. I never throw a kid more than 55 to 75 pitches. And that usually works out to be about three maybe four innings. We played against teams this fall, from about 10 different baseball parks. In some of the games, I know their pitch counts were way over 90! Not only that they pitch that kid again the second day, because they probably didn't have anybody else that can pitch? I think we do a good job in managing our pitching. We had two arm injuries last year and those kids did not pitch one baseball for us. Like 743 said it can happen to anybody at any time. I love how a kid can play 60 games in a season and never get hurt but the minute baseball season is over they will break and arm riding a skateboard. I would love to see some real statistics on this topic. If our pitchers are throwing too much. The competition must be destroying their kids
Mark |
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southpawmom
19 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2008 : 11:43:34
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| I've kept stats for our ECB team from ages 10-12. I count pitches for both sides. Our coaches would only let pitchers get to 65-70 pitches, but most only pitched for 2 or 3 innings (30-40 pitches) a game depending on the sanctioning body (USSSA vs Triple Crown etc.) and the pitching rules for the tourney. This is one of the reasons our son plays for these coaches. I don't really think that you can lump all the ECB teams together because I've seen other teams outside of ECB let pitchers throw 80 to 90+ pitches in a game and if there were no pitching rules, these same kids pitched again the next day. I don't know why coaches do it - but please keep in mind that strategies and pitching philosophies vary from coach to coach and it's not an ECB vs others scenario. |
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2008 : 14:18:57
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Thanks for your replies. Like I said, I am not trying to criticize anyone here. We played 2 tournaments last year in 9u at ATTP and I noticed 2 teams (1 ECB & the other from the same area) that pitched a kid all 6 innings in a game. I didn't get to see either of those games so I don't know what their pitch counts were. It's entirely possible that they had some easy ground outs or flyouts on just a few pitches that allowed them to go deeper in the game.
We pay a lot of attention to mechanics and pitch counts during the game and have gone as high as 65 pitches but usually by then, we see a noticable change in performance. Our team last year didn't have the depth at pitching to allow us to save one pitcher for a championship game for instance, especially under Triple Crown pitching guidelines. I was more curious about strategies relative to these tournaments than anything.
Again, I appreciate your input. |
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Pronate
156 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2008 : 02:21:07
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While it's the parents job to protect their kids, I find it difficult to believe ECB would let a guy that would allow 9-10 year olds to pitch a full game coach a 9-10 year old team. The Braves don't even have pitchers that can pitch 6 innings without getting hurt. And there is no reason anyone should ever hurt themselves throwing or pitching a baseball. Overuse is obviously an issue at 10 years old (none of the 6 growth plates in the elbow is even close to closing) parents have to understand that misuse is as big a problem. They simply are not taught how to throw correctly.
I was with Dr Mike Marshall last week at his Training and Research Center in Zephrhills Fl and made an attempt convince him to remove his recommendation that kids under 13 do not pitch competitively. I explained to him that I am convinced parents will not look into his pitching motion because they don't want to be faced with the prospect of not letting their kids pitch. He wrote me that while his pitching motion would eliminate all elbow and shoulder problems and parents should use his motion if they insist on having their kids pitch, he could not in good conscience change his recommendation. His concern is with the growth plates. If the world's leading expert on pitching does not want 9-10 year olds pitching at all, I think we can agree that anything over a couple of innings is way too much.
I highly recommend that parents with the werewithal make the journey down to Zephyrhills to see for themselves. The physical strength and dedication of Dr Marshall's students is the finest example of the American spirit that I have ever seen.
e
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Edited by - Pronate on 11/14/2008 08:28:36 |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2008 : 14:53:02
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| Dr. Marshall being the "world's leading expert on pitching" is way debateable. I also don't agree that kids should not pitch untill they are 11. I don't have a problem with someone wanting to wait if that is what they think, but I strongly believe you need to keep control of how much they pitch. Pitch counts are not necessarily the cure all as some kids can go longer than others, but, proper rest after an outing and watching closely for signs of fatigue are absolutes. We as parents and coaches need to make the effort to put a stop to the abuse of young arms. |
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Pitch counts, 9 & 10u
