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inthestands
3 Posts |
 Posted - 04/22/2015 : 13:51:43
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| Just curious how folks see the role of private lessons in the travel baseball experience. Son is in year 4 of travel ball, and generally it seems that fewer than half of the families on his various teams have put their kids in private lessons to supplement what they're learning in group practices or games. Always assumed that private lessons were something families did to help kids be more successful and enjoy the game more (esp. when hitting slumps happen or when pitching mechanics need improvement). But aren't lessons also a way to help the team be more competitive? Doesn't it go beyond a benefit for just the kid? I guess we've seen one-on-one lessons as a sort of obligation--something we owe to our kid and the team if we're going the travel baseball route. Thoughts? And I do understand that cost is a big part of the choices that families make in this area. |
Edited by - inthestands on 04/22/2015 13:54:43 |
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SoxIn7
42 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2015 : 14:50:54
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Just my 2 cents. My son take weekly hitting lessons. The reason for that is because I struggle to recognize the smaller details in the mechanics of the swing. Normally, I need to watch a video of it to pick up or just watch and I can pick up on it. Unfortunately, I can't toss to him and see it. That is my reasoning for it anyway (plus he listens better to another coach for hitting.
Pitching is a different story. I work with him on my own. Part of the reason is because I can follow up to his coaching and can identify it easier. The reinforcement just comes easier for me.
Different parents have varying skill sets and schedules. Some do it on their own, others pay for it. IMO, as long as they are working on it in some way, I think that's all I could ever ask for....paid lesson or not. |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2015 : 15:14:16
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My opinion here, it's all about the team you're on... I know of Major teams (9U) that EVERY kid on the team gets lessons (re: instruction) for all facets of the game, and they only practice as a team once a week for the coach (term used loosely, more like coordinator) to see how the kids are doing and make his depth chart, pitching rotation, batting order out for the upcoming tournament. It's these 'serious' teams that are more concerned about winning and getting the best of the best players, rather than the coaches truly instructing and developing kids.
Now, on mid-low AAA teams and below, some kids may be able to get by (to a certain extent) on raw ability alone, with maybe minimal input (instruction) from a coach, dad, or assistant coach. These kids (and their families) do not have the expectations that the Major teams do, so it's not all that crucial for everyone to be on the top of their game each and every time out.
I just think it's a completely different mind-set from team to team or level of play. Your thoughts of "owing it to your team" sounds like a Major team. Trying to pull your weight, and not be the reason of any downfall, and for that, you should be applauded... But there are plenty, I'm sure, that feel their son is 'good enough', especially for the team they are on. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2015 : 15:25:04
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As you move to 12u and above some teams actually require private lessons to happen with the coach or with the coaches at the facility they play out of. I would hazard MOST 12u and below don't require them.
Remember, some teams are super competitive, other teams have more of a "it's all for fun" mentality. If you have found yourself on a "it's all for fun" team and you have a super competitive kid you should probably look at another team come this summer.
Then it breaks down into the family dynamics and choices. It's possible there isn't enough money for private lessons, or the time commitment is too much with the parents work schedule, or as is the case for my family, the belief that it is a waste of money to spend hundred(s) of dollars a month on a kid getting private lessons when we don't know if he will actually continue in this sport!
I get that higher level kids want to play with higher level kids, it is what makes baseball more fun for them, but having a 9u kid in pitching lessons or hitting lessons when it's possible he will be a 4'10, 100# 15 year old...well that's just ridiculous...at least to me. There are some families that believe it is VITAL their kid learn proper pitching and hitting mechanics as early as possible and others that only go for pitching lessons when their child's mechanics are off and getting hurt. Personal choice.
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BaseballMom6
233 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2015 : 21:34:00
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I believe it is a personal choice. Likely driven by many factors such as time, money, desire. I don't think any family owes it to their travel team to get their child private instruction. They owe it to their team to show up and give 100% at all practices and games. Most travel players have the desire to work outside of practice, which I believe they should be doing, but that doesn't have to be with a paid instructor. We will throw with our son so he can get his long throws in, or take him to the cage so he can get more reps.
You should know the expectations of your team, and find one that matches what you are looking for. |
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nastycurve
244 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2015 : 00:47:42
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I think it depends on what you want for your player individually and what he needs to bring to the team. If you are trying to be the absolute best player you can be, you need to get some help from someone who can aid you in reaching that level. If your team is a super high competitive team, then you need to get help from someone who can aid you in staying highly competitive. Practice is to show coaches what kind of player you are and what you can do to earn a spot in the lineup, not so much development. Going to practice is not enough, everyone does that(or should). 120 minutes of practice, 12 kids 2 coaches breaks down to about 15-20 minutes of active player work during practice twice a week-not enough.
If you want to be an impact player, get some help. If your player is deficient in an area get someone, the best someone, you can afford to work with them. If little Johnny was falling behind in school, you dont go get a homeless guy off the street to tutor him, you find a specialist in the subject. Same goes for baseball. |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2015 : 08:52:08
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quote:
Originally posted by nastycurve
If little Johnny was falling behind in school, you dont go get a homeless guy off the street to tutor him, you find a specialist in the subject. Same goes for baseball.
THIS is an OUTSTANDING correlation! But again, so parents/kids are ok with 'C's'-- not all want to strive to be straight A students. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2015 : 09:32:01
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As an after thought...about 10 years ago the idea of Travel Baseball was only for the elite. The kids who were outstanding, most likely headed to be playing baseball in college and some beyond. In these programs private lessons and one on one baseball lessons were considered normal and almost obligatory to maintain your status as an elite player....we aren't in those times anymore, but if you have been talking to some old timers that may be the cause of the confusion.
I can name 5 parks within 5 miles of my house that have multiple "travel ball teams"...but in reality 4 of them are rec parks pretending to have elite teams for the money they bring in. Each "Travel Ball Team" usually pays a small fee for the kid to be able to use the parks name on their Jersey, it might be only $50, it might be $200. Some call it a registration fee, others call it a players fee, it still adds up quick when you have at least 2-3 teams in each age group spanning 8u-18u, 12+ players per team. Then each team has to pay for field time at their home park...that could be $500+ per team. Again add up all those teams from 8u-18u...Travel Ball has become a very lucrative business and does not necessarily mean you have an elite player who is at the top of their game, now it mostly means you have an extra 2K+ a year to burn.
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Footballforsanity
14 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2015 : 10:10:43
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Agree with most. But realize, if your player needs constant work at young ages there may be another sport out there for him that he's more naturally suited for. Football, Basketball, Hockey, etc... are all about player development. Especially at young ages, meaning pre-High School. And the coaching staff does 90% or more of that development.
And don't get mad when a kid just gets out of bed in the morning better than everone else, even the kids taking 4-5 private lessons a week. Not his fault he has tons of natural athletic ability. Developing athletes again in baseball on top of skill type players would cause the game to be more fun again and start growing again. Best of luck to all in this great game, and make sure to spread the game to all. There's a kid in the Dominican Repuplic right now playing baseball that has never owned a pair of cleats much less taken private lessons that will be playing MLB one day. I remember when America produced that type of natural baseball talent in bulk... |
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Newbie BB Mom
141 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2015 : 14:11:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Footballforsanity
There's a kid in the Dominican Repuplic right now playing baseball that has never owned a pair of cleats much less taken private lessons that will be playing MLB one day. I remember when America produced that type of natural baseball talent in bulk...
Natural baseball talent? You do realize the abuses that go on in the Dominican Republic's baseball system, right? That there are private baseball academies being run by shady buscones who train desperately poor boys as young as 12 and 13 in horrible conditions in hopes of making money off them by "selling" them to one of the MLB academies when they are 16? That these boys start working on their baseball skills at a very young age to try to get into one of these private academies because it is their ONLY ticket out of extreme poverty? That, even so, most of them will not make it out of the DR, much less into the MLB?
While many great players have come out of the DR, that is not a system this country should ever want to emulate. And there is nothing natural about it. |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2015 : 15:11:01
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The kid in the Dominican isn't sitting around playing video games...
Somewhere in the USA is a kid with all the talent in the world who is. Just sayin'. |
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brball
615 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2015 : 18:48:06
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quote:
Originally posted by rippit
The kid in the Dominican isn't sitting around playing video games...
Somewhere in the USA is a kid with all the talent in the world who is. Just sayin'.
Well that kid isn't being a kid... My son will play video games with the best of them, but sure loves to practice and play the tourneys. And don't even get me started on his pitching, the kid will literally look at all his grips of his pitches in between the video games and tell me I think I'm going to try this grip this week... I think it might work better than the other! |
Edited by - brball on 04/23/2015 20:14:25 |
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Critical Mass
277 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2015 : 08:07:32
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| Reps never hurt, if he wants to get better, get him a hitting coach and don't worry about your HC etc. They wont be around later in life and baseball and your son will....do what is best for him. Lots of folks get caught up and dont train their kids because the HC at the elite program handles that and forbids other interaction from other coaches, tell the guy to pound sand and take care of your kid, first. |
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Newbie BB Mom
141 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2015 : 09:13:47
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quote:
Originally posted by rippit
The kid in the Dominican isn't sitting around playing video games...
Somewhere in the USA is a kid with all the talent in the world who is. Just sayin'.
That kid in the DR also isn't going to school and probably isn't living with his family. Instead, he trains 8 to 10 hours a day at that squalid "academy" (nothing like what we think of as a baseball academy here in the states) until his 16th birthday. If at any point his buscone thinks he's not going to make money off the kid, he will drop him like a hot potato.
My point is that Dominican kids don't step out of the sugar cane fields fully formed MLB baseball players. They are scouted for their natural talent, then groomed and trained, just like kids here are. Their system, however, is much more brutal and exploitative.
Sorry to hijack this thread. In response to the original post, I think any kid who is struggling with some part of his game needs to be working on it. Private lessons, while ideal, may be an expense some families can't swing. I disagree with another poster who said that team practices are not for development. That said, for individual problems, a player needs to keep working on those outside of team practices. And, yes, I do think he owes that to his team.
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Edited by - Newbie BB Mom on 04/24/2015 09:35:41 |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2015 : 10:11:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Newbie BB Mom
In response to the original post, I think any kid who is struggling with some part of his game needs to be working on it. Private lessons, while ideal, may be an expense some families can't swing. I disagree with another poster who said that team practices are not for development. That said, for individual problems, a player needs to keep working on those outside of team practices. And, yes, I do think he owes that to his team.
I think team practices are not for specialized development. i.e. catchers get some reps but they need more than 20 minutes a week at blocking, receiving, throw downs, bunt drills...etc. Pitchers need more than 20 minutes a week pitching practice to try out new grips, see what works, what doesn't, and they need the coaches full attention not 1 coach watching 2 kids. And fixing a kids swing is going to take a lot more than 10 minutes in a batting cage 3 times a week.
Practices, I'd say for 12u and above, is more about maintenance of skills and assessing how those skills are progressing. Also about working together with your team mates on how to cover bunts, double plays, cut-offs...etc...it isn't so much about teaching anymore than deciding who to play and where. |
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Footballforsanity
14 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2015 : 13:37:42
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"Sugar Cane Fields"? They play a lot of baseball and soccer on top of working in those cane fields. Probably makes them strong and gives them some stamina. I'll put an American perspective to make the point. Google Dr James Andrews on his opinion regarding youth baseball players and especially those taking lessons on top of playing. Essentially playing baseball non-stop to "get better". The word "abuse" comes up regarding coaches and parents. And that's right here in the U.S.
If player A runs track, plays football, plays basketball, and plays baseball with no private coaching; while player B plays baseball year round with additional private coaching; and at the tryouts they show similar skills, one of those has more natural talent than the other. Meaning one is most likely at their limit or beyond while the other has miles to go. Good to see multi sport athletes coming back, it's great for the game and according to Doctors it's better for the athlete. My point is, feed the monster but don't break your kid. Good luck to all and remember to spread this great game to all! |
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2015 : 15:39:19
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| @FFS - I had a D1 baseball coach tell me that he loves recruiting multi-sport athletes, especially former high school football players. He then named about six or so of his former players and current major leaguers who played football in high school. It's been his experience that they bring a toughness with them to the diamond. |
Edited by - hshuler on 04/24/2015 19:40:14 |
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NF1974
62 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2015 : 15:55:59
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I like some of the comments from Footballforsanity and would like to add a few of my own. I think that parents need to do a better job of what i call " tracking their kids". This means that you listen to them and try to support them in where they are at in life and not where you wish they were. Let me share a couple of examples. A number of years ago I was coaching a rec team of 10/11 year olds. After a particular game, a parent of one of the boys came up to me and expressed that she wanted her son to be a really good baseball player. She could see what most everyone could see which is that her son did not have a lot of ability and furthermore he did not seem to have a lot of desire. My guess is that he was out there mostly because of her desire. For her to keep pushing and then trying with private lessons etc.. would just have not been smart. She needs to find out what he is really good at and then jump on board.
A second example, and a personal one, is that I have suggested to my son that he play this summer because he needs reps and he is coming off of an injury.He just finished is Freshmen season at a D-3 school. I am not going to mention it again. If he has the desire to play then he will pursue it and let me know. If not then that is his choice.
My son told me when he was in 10th grade that he wanted to take hitting lessons and i supported it. he took one a week and it was costly but i believe that it was well worth it.
I think that the school analogy is a good one. If your son or daughter wants to get better at a particular subject then you support them by having a tutor. I know that tutors are not cheap but they are well worth the time and money. This teaches your kid that it is okay to ask for help and that help is available- both of which are good life lessons. Both of my kids went to tutors off and on when they were in Highschool and even in college. Also i would add that getting help is not just for " those that need it". Both of my kids graduated in the top 5% of their classes so they are no dummies but part of their life learning has been to seek out those that know more and get better.
I think the role of private lessons should be driven by the kids desire to get better and a certain amount of ability. |
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AUBB
73 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2015 : 15:14:00
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I think there are two reasons for taking private lessons.
1. On a personal note, my son starting taking lessons @ age 9 towards the very end of rec ball when he was chosen to play all-stars. He is athletic and smart, but we felt that lessons would teach him specific tools, drills, etc. to "get better". From the all-star talent on the team, we felt out of 11 players at that point, he was somewhere, basically in the middle. Lessons would help him get better.
2. The 2nd reason why he continues to take lessons is to make sure that he maintains a consistent level to play with kids that are better/stronger/taller than he is.
At 13u, the differences are very dramatic.
Being a normal-sized/normal height young man, playing against man-beasts that are 5'10 to 6'0'' and from 170-200lbs+, we felt the hitting/batting/pitching would allow for a "normal-sized" kid to compete with the larger sasquatches.
The lessons have helped him move from a end-of-lineup guy, to a 5-6 hitter in the lineup, due to the fact he is learning and getting 1-on-1 assistance.
Its the effort he puts forward to warrant the additional lessons and the gradual improvement that we see.
From a breakdown of the team.....Kids #1-5 take lessons, kids #6 through 12 don't, or don't consistently/regularly. |
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baseballdandy
51 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2015 : 15:45:56
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We do take hitting a pitching lessons. Like most of you, my son has a great love of playing baseball. He's young and I want him to maintain that love for a long time. Therefore, we looked at lessons as a way to give him the proper mechanics to allow him to experience personal success. Some kids have a great ability but poor mechanics so they will eventually quit without that feeling of personal success and ability to grow. It's exciting and feels awesome to know you're good at something, even if you're not the best (that's where work ethic will come in). To me, that excitement and confidence (not arrogance) is contagious and ends up being a win, win for the team.
We have also experienced my son developing bad habits, especially with hitting. That dreadful disease of wanting to "look" like a big league player instead of playing like one. Those kinks aren't easy to work out. I've learned it's best for him to start with the proper basics and for them to become natural to him for future tweaking and growth than to have to unlearn (is that a real word) bad habits and struggle in the future. On top of that, proper form and mechanics will help to avoid some unnecessary injuries, especially with pitching.
The frustrating part of lessons can be finding the right instructor for your son. We had one that let the bad habits slide. We love our current coaches. Also, you can pay hundreds/thousands of dollars in outside lessons and then have a Coach tell your son to do something completely different than he's been having success with in private lessons. It can really mess with their head when it happens during a game.
All that said, personal success is our "why" for private lessons. We also are very adamant that baseball is team sport and he is to make every play in a way that benefits the whole team. That's what practice is for. Should he decide to stop playing baseball, I hope he'll have positive memories and lessons from his success in baseball to filter into another sport and/or every day life. Hard work beats talent when talent won't work.
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Edited by - baseballdandy on 04/25/2015 17:54:28 |
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Footballforsanity
14 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2015 : 17:43:16
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AUBB, sounds like someone is putting in the work to get better and it's paying off. And absolutely there is a role for private instruction to get better for all ball players. Some just take it too far setting unrealistic expectations way too early and push beyond limits causing injuries. And then of course some add a step 3 that's been baseball's biggest nightmare, PED's. Keep feeding that monster AUBB, sounds like he's on the right track. Best of luck on the journey, enjoy the ride!
@Shuler; that's a smart coach. Good players will find somewhere to play. Never understood coaches running off talent just because the player plays multiple sports. |
Edited by - Footballforsanity on 04/25/2015 17:54:28 |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2015 : 09:12:40
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In short, I think private lessons prior to high school (unless the kid is physically hurting himself) are a gimmick and a money waster that lets parents believe their average child could become above average...when the fact is there are above average kids out there already who don't take lessons that will blow the average child away come high school.
If parents are having fun and have money to blow then more power to them to get this baseball experience, but there is a fine line on what we as parents should be telling our children. It is soul crushing when a child realizes it doesn't matter how many lessons he has, how many reps he puts in, how many special name jerseys he wears...he just doesn't have the talent to make it past High School, or in some cases even make it onto the high school team.
I have heard of more than one child that valued themselves as a person based on their baseball skills, because that is what their parents instilled in them, and when they realized they aren't especially skilled in baseball they have no sense of identity anymore and no drive to do better in other aspects of their life....in short they think no matter how hard they try they won't succeed.
Each child is born with a talent, your child's talent may not be baseball, if your kid likes baseball that is great leave him at a rec park playing 8 weeks a year and maybe 2 times a week and then he and you will have time to find his true talent. |
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baseballdandy
51 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2015 : 10:29:34
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CaCO3Grl, I'm not in agreement with your assessment but we'll agree to disagree. I do believe there are kids with natural talent who will always be a step above but there is a place for a kid who may not be a superstar prior to High School and just wants to play well with other kids at his level. Nothing wrong with giving your kid the tools to carry forward and be successful. For me, I'm not expecting my child to play in HS or beyond. I'm following his lead and we'll see where that takes us. But, I personally, had some talent locked inside as a youth that my parents or coaches never worked to bring out. I'll just say it, I probably never would have been above average but I would have spent my younger years with more confidence. My husband had a different experience. He had a wonderful coach who saw his potential and worked with him to develop that talent. Otherwise, he may have fizzled away and stopped playing prior to HS. As we've heard on here numerous times, in numerous threads, a young 9-10U stud is not necessarily a 12-13U or High School stud. Some reach their peak and don't know how to handle going from above average to just average because the average players have worked harder or have finally developed/blossomed and are now "showing up". Then, some burn out and some find another sport that drives them more.
I agree that some parents are unrealistic about their child's TRUE skill level and potential. Lessons cannot correct that. However, if your child is asking for more, at any level, you should provide what you can and be realistic about what he'll get from it. We've experienced success with lessons and find the money well spent even though we don't have lots of extra cash to spread around. Not mind blowing success but valuable tools and reinforcement to take on the field. I also agree that a child should not value themselves solely on his baseball skills. That's just parenting and we all know there are many, MANY parents who focus too much on sports and not enough on the well rounded, balanced child who can do many things. Why I don't believe in holding a kid back in school to make him the stud or just more likely to compete. (I know, I'm probably asking for it on that one)
One final note, Coaches are too busy to give the kids the individual attention some may need. It can be a sink or swim environment. Thank goodness for lessons to provide that focused, one on one instruction, to enhance that individual's unique style and skills. |
Edited by - baseballdandy on 04/27/2015 11:11:27 |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2015 : 11:54:20
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quote:
Originally posted by baseballdandy
CaCO3Grl, I'm not in agreement with your assessment but we'll agree to disagree. I do believe there are kids with natural talent who will always be a step above but there is a place for a kid who may not be a superstar prior to High School and just wants to play well with other kids at his level. Nothing wrong with giving your kid the tools to carry forward and be successful. For me, I'm not expecting my child to play in HS or beyond. I'm following his lead and we'll see where that takes us. But, I personally, had some talent locked inside as a youth that my parents or coaches never worked to bring out. I'll just say it, I probably never would have been above average but I would have spent my younger years with more confidence. My husband had a different experience. He had a wonderful coach who saw his potential and worked with him to develop that talent. Otherwise, he may have fizzled away and stopped playing prior to HS. As we've heard on here numerous times, in numerous threads, a young 9-10U stud is not necessarily a 12-13U or High School stud. Some reach their peak and don't know how to handle going from above average to just average because the average players have worked harder or have finally developed/blossomed and are now "showing up". Then, some burn out and some find another sport that drives them more.
I agree that some parents are unrealistic about their child's TRUE skill level and potential. Lessons cannot correct that. However, if your child is asking for more, at any level, you should provide what you can and be realistic about what he'll get from it. We've experienced success with lessons and find the money well spent even though we don't have lots of extra cash to spread around. Not mind blowing success but valuable tools and reinforcement to take on the field. I also agree that a child should not value themselves solely on his baseball skills. That's just parenting and we all know there are many, MANY parents who focus too much on sports and not enough on the well rounded, balanced child who can do many things. Why I don't believe in holding a kid back in school to make him the stud or just more likely to compete. (I know, I'm probably asking for it on that one)
One final note, Coaches are too busy to give the kids the individual attention some may need. It can be a sink or swim environment. Thank goodness for lessons to provide that focused, one on one instruction, to enhance that individual's unique style and skills.
What age are you talking about...we might be talking about the same thing. |
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Role of private lessons for travel players?
