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LittleDawg
91 Posts |
 Posted - 01/22/2015 : 09:09:44
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Heard an interesting statement last night at tryouts.
The HS where my son goes (East Cobb) has roughly 65 kids (22 Sr /Jr & ~40 Fresh / Sophs, trying out for the Varsity and JV teams. No Freshman team. Coach will likely carry 22 per team.
Meaning roughly 20 kids don't make it. Another HS in the area, literally 3 miles away, which is typically a powerhouse has a total of 30 kids trying out for both V / JV.
I don't know if it cycles like this every few years but I found it very interesting and a little sad as my son, a good player on a Major team will likely not make the cut due to sheer numbers. (That and the fact, he's not a pitcher)
On one hand, it's great to see the turnout and the level of talent at School 1 is very impressive. They will be very competitive but it will be tough on the boys who wont make the cut, many of the Freshman play for Major 14 and 15U teams but likely won't make the HS team.
School 2 where many of these same Major players have buddies on their travel team will basically take whoever is interested in order to field a team and save arms.
Dreading 1st cut day on Saturday. Not because it's the end, he still has travel ball and loves the game. However, even though we, as adults, know the level of competition in travel ball is higher than the HS teams, there is still a great sense of pride and accomplishment that comes from making the squad. |
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Mad1
252 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2015 : 09:24:01
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| We got the same situation on Southside too, We got one school that had 46 turn out for just 9th grade team and one high school a few miles away that had only 25 show up period for all teams. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2015 : 09:52:17
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The Atlanta area is a hotbed of baseball. You can't go 5 miles without at least 3 travel ball parks showing up. I propose that perhaps in the powerhouse school the rec ball players, A, and AA don't even bother making an appearance and that is why the numbers are so low.
Also, if your kid plays for a truly major team I don't understand why he wouldn't have the skills to make an impression, especially if he is a down the middle guy....SS, 2cd, center, catcher...you already said he didn't pitch. Then again, the coach might cut the truly talented freshman just to see how they take it...gives good information for future cuts....does the kid bad mouth the coach...does he look at him like he is scum and say "forget you, I don't need you"...or does he say "Maybe next year coach, see you then" with a smile. THAT would tell the coach what kind of teammate your son will be.
It isn't always about talent when it comes to making a team. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2015 : 10:19:37
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Not to sound insensitive LittleDawg, but your situation is one that the older posters have been talking about for a long time. The higher up the ladder you go, the more competitive it gets. It starts with the tryouts and will progress to play time for those kids who do make the team. It seems a little unfair that the situation at other schools is different, but that's just the way it is.
I think there is not reason to give up hope though. IF your son does not make the team this year, he can try out again next year. Some of those seniors will be gone and spots will open up. IF your son does not make the team, have him talk to the coach afterwards and let him know that he is still very interested in playing baseball for the school and plans on trying out again next year. Have him ask what it is the coach sees that he needs to improve on over the next year to be able to compete for a spot next year.
Like I said, the higher up the food chain you go, the smaller the funnel becomes. There are a million travel teams out there. Anyone can get on a travel team. When you start competing for a limited roster, it definitely becomes harder. I hope your son makes the team, but if he doesn't, and he REALLY wants to play HS ball, don't give up just yet. Keep working and try again next year. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2015 : 12:28:45
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There's also more detail you need to consider in your numbers. Most JV teams won't carry any Jr./Sr's. So what you really have are X number of Jr/Sr's trying out for varsity only (22 slots) and X number of FR/SO's trying out for varsity and JV (44 slots).
So the number may favor the freshmen a bit more than you realize. A little different for Mad1's situation where 46 are trying out for just the FR team.
bballman is right on. The more tenured posters here have been letting everyone know that this is the reality. There are certainly a few "program" kids who make a slot because of what parent's bring to the program (heavy volunteers, pocketbook, etc). These kids may take a slot from #21 or#22 on the depth chart and would not have otherwise made the team, but in the end, they're not taking a slot from a 1-15 kid and it won't guarantee them any playing time.
To your point, there is no equity from school to school as to what may or may not be available. Cobb County doesn't have Freshmen only teams, Gwinnett does. The enrollment of Gwinnett schools tend to be 30-40% higher than Cobb schools, so there is certainly more competition from a sheer numbers perspective for the coveted JV/Varsity slots. Competition is real at the high school level to make the team, then step onto the field. It ain't rec/travel ball anymore. |
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BaseballMom6
233 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2015 : 12:39:19
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| Bballman - While I agree that the higher up you go the more competitive it should get, Littledawg's comment is that it isn't always true. The level of competitiveness around here in East Cobb varies directly with your luck of assigned school and number of players that come out for the team. In this area you could literally live on the wrong side of the street and be competing against 60 players instead of 30. My son is in the same situation as Littledawg's, and I am also dreading first cuts, there are definitely going to be some talented kids cut, and that is very unfortunate. |
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LittleDawg
91 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2015 : 13:26:13
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@bballman. You are right and we totally get it about the competition. That's why he's playing Majors now. Wants to constantly be challenged. It's not that he won't play HS ball, it just may not be this year due to the limited spots. He gets it and don't think it will deter him.
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2015 : 15:09:55
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Well, overall, I would say expect the competition and thank your lucky stars if you wind up in the situation without many showing up for tryouts. Although my guess is the more competitive tryouts are, the better the team will wind up being.
So, sometimes you have to wonder if you would rather be in heavy competition for a really good team, or play on a really bad team? You'll see the same thing in travel ball. The top programs may have hundreds of kids show up for tryouts while the lesser teams may have to beg for players to show up. I know it's not exactly the same because in HS you are restricted with where you can go, but it's kind of the same principle.
If you go on to play college, it's pretty much the same thing as well. First of all you have to get recruited. But the level of team you wind up playing on will dictate a lot as well. At every level, NCAA D1,D2 & D3, NAIA, JUCO - each have top tier, middle of the road and lower tier. If you play on a top tier team, competition will be intense and you will really have to earn your play time. That's after you are already on the team. Out of 35 or so players on a college roster, usually 16 or 17 are pitchers and 18 or 19 are position players. A coach might use only 9 or 10 pitchers all season and may only use 11 or 12 position players. That leaves 14 or 15 guys that just don't see the field at all. If you play on a lower level team, your chances of playing might be greater, but you're still going to have to compete to get on the field.
Hope these analogies make sense.
Once again, I wish the best to all your kids going thru tryouts this week. I know it can be nerve wracking!! |
Edited by - bballman on 01/22/2015 16:58:27 |
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LittleDawg
91 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2015 : 09:33:51
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@CaCO3Girl My son is a middle infielder for a Major team so yes, while his chances are better than some, he is competing against a large group of middle infielders who also play for Major teams (mostly sophomores).
@BaseballMom6 You are right. We live in a highly competitive area and if our house was 2 blocks in another direction, he'd be trying out for another school.
1st cuts tonight after another scrimmage today and if he makes it through it's another week of tryouts to final cut next Sat. It's been a fun week for him as he's bonded with this group better than any travel team thus far. Primarily because he see's them all day in school and on the field. Either way, he's had a blast and said it's been a really good experience, which is all I really wanted for him.
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2015 : 09:50:19
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quote:
Originally posted by LittleDawg
[brIt's been a fun week for him as he's bonded with this group better than any travel team thus far. Primarily because he see's them all day in school and on the field. Either way, he's had a blast and said it's been a really good experience, which is all I really wanted for him.
That's what HS ball is all about!!! Not so much about winning or losing - although winning is always better  - but about playing with your friends and the kids you go to school with every day. It's an experience that can't be duplicated anywhere.
Best of luck to your son LittleDawg - and all the other parents out there going thru tryouts. |
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dad4kids
109 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2015 : 09:52:42
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| What is the normal roster size for a HS team? The newly posted roster for our AAAAAA team has 18 varsity and 15 JV. Seems small for a big school. |
Edited by - dad4kids on 01/24/2015 10:21:24 |
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LittleDawg
91 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2015 : 10:50:58
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| @dad - As I mentioned above in my OP, I think it all depends on the turnout. Our school, also AAAAAA is going to carry 22 varsity and 22 JV. They have 65 kids trying out. it's possible your school simply didn't have enough to field 2 teams with enough depth. |
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dad4kids
109 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2015 : 11:02:36
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| I don't think slim turnouts are the cause for this HS. |
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Newbie BB Mom
141 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2015 : 12:34:36
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| We live in an East Cobb school zone for one of these schools that has an amazing amount of baseball talent. While my son isn't HS age yet, I'm seeing some of the incoming freshman and sophomores in our area who have played travel ball for years, some at the major level at ECB or other brand name baseball academies, not make our HS JV team. I don't think its a coincidence that some of them end up transferring to private school and playing ball there. |
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Critical Mass
277 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2015 : 10:18:52
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In "some" cases, the Sr's get a nod over more talented underclassmen, and that is fact. Our AAAAAA had that issue a few years ago when our HC "kept" several Sr's who he knew were potentially malcontents about losing playing time and he did not bring up more talented underclassmen who are now D1 scholarship kids. The malcontents are not playing D1 ball. Those D1, 2015s are now the nucleus of this team and i would tell you that IMHO, if he would have taken a bit of a hit 3 years ago, we may have had enough experience to win state last year. I'm sure this is only an exception but IF HCs had to win to keep their jobs, more underclassmen who were more talented would play.
If our school had that many trying out, i would hope that he coach would field a frosh team and bank the fees for the booster club and have access to those younger players to get a feel for the studs etc with potential next year. |
Edited by - Critical Mass on 01/25/2015 13:26:29 |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2015 : 17:56:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Critical Mass
In "some" cases, the Sr's get a nod over more talented underclassmen, and that is fact. Our AAAAAA had that issue a few years ago when our HC "kept" several Sr's who he knew were potentially malcontents about losing playing time and he did not bring up more talented underclassmen who are now D1 scholarship kids. The malcontents are not playing D1 ball. Those D1, 2015s are now the nucleus of this team and i would tell you that IMHO, if he would have taken a bit of a hit 3 years ago, we may have had enough experience to win state last year. I'm sure this is only an exception but IF HCs had to win to keep their jobs, more underclassmen who were more talented would play.
If our school had that many trying out, i would hope that he coach would field a frosh team and bank the fees for the booster club and have access to those younger players to get a feel for the studs etc with potential next year.
NAIL. HEAD. SMACK. |
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ecb7
100 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2015 : 18:53:40
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| The reality is most are kids starting at 10 and 11U are only getting experience in one or two positions besides pitching. That's a huge mistake because when you go to High School you might have two upper classmen that are All-State players playing your positions. I taught my son to play a Varsity skill level in all positions besides catcher and too short for First Base at 5'8". If you can truly hit and play almost any position and pitch doesn't matter if 150 show up for tryouts you will make the team. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2015 : 09:43:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Critical Mass
In "some" cases, the Sr's get a nod over more talented underclassmen, and that is fact. Our AAAAAA had that issue a few years ago when our HC "kept" several Sr's who he knew were potentially malcontents about losing playing time and he did not bring up more talented underclassmen who are now D1 scholarship kids. The malcontents are not playing D1 ball. Those D1, 2015s are now the nucleus of this team and i would tell you that IMHO, if he would have taken a bit of a hit 3 years ago, we may have had enough experience to win state last year. I'm sure this is only an exception but IF HCs had to win to keep their jobs, more underclassmen who were more talented would play.
If our school had that many trying out, i would hope that he coach would field a frosh team and bank the fees for the booster club and have access to those younger players to get a feel for the studs etc with potential next year.
While I fear I will feel this way when my 2020 finally tries out for the high school team, there is something to be said for the Senior who knows he won't play College ball but wants his high school yearbook to include him in the baseball picture.
For some kids it isn't about moving onto bigger and better and locking down that D1 Scholarship, it's about having the memories of playing a high school sport...that's got to be worth something to a decent coach of a HIGH SCHOOL (NOT MLB) |
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BREAMKING
323 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2015 : 09:56:30
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| Ecb7 your right on the money. I coach a younger team and been doing it for years. Always tell them the exact thing you said. Have to be able to be versatile. It is the easiest way to make a high school team. Every coach likes a guy that can play everywhere. |
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2015 : 11:53:32
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Except for the obvious high-ceiling kids, there is no perfect formula that guarantees making a high school team...and some coaches can't even recognize these kids. Obviously, any coach with a clue places a premium on pitching but after that it depends on his system. Some coaches prefer power and will try to outscore the opponent (bbcor makes this harder) and some prefer to build a more athletic roster with a defensive mindset. Returning upper classmen and their positions are also a factor. Also, is a coach looking at tools during the tryout/scrimmage or is it just about success? For example, do I cut a really talented kid who had a bad weekend of scrimmages and keep a less talented kid who was unconscious for a three games stretch?
A few important notes, all players on a major roster are not necessarily major players. You may also have a high major type talent on a AA roster. I think parents sometimes get these facts confused.
Lastly, @ecb7 - I agree to a certain extent but some guys are just corner guys and that's all they will ever be...and there nothing wrong with that. I do agree that versatility improves your chances though. Middle guys can play corner positions in a pinch but not vice versa.
At the end of the day, encourage your kid to work hard and hopefully they will reap the benefits of it.
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Edited by - hshuler on 01/26/2015 12:08:43 |
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SSBuckeye
575 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2015 : 12:30:09
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| My oldest son pretty much just played 1B since he was young, with just a sprinkling of outfield. 5 minutes before his first game as a freshman, the coach asked him if he could play OF, even though he had only practiced at 1B up to that point. He said he could and he ended up playing OF his whole freshman season and just made the varsity as an OF. So get those kids reps at as many positions as you can. If they can hit, they will play, but only if they can credibly play a position. |
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metsFan
63 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2015 : 12:34:49
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| For those who have athletes in the East Cobb area, tonight is the night for the last of the HS to announce their rosters. Best of luck to those still waiting and congratulations who have made their squads. |
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LittleDawg
91 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2015 : 14:26:49
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quote:
Originally posted by metsFan
For those who have athletes in the East Cobb area, tonight is the night for the last of the HS to announce their rosters. Best of luck to those still waiting and congratulations who have made their squads.
Sadly, Not true.
Son goes to East Cobb HS and 1st cuts were announced over the wknd and final cuts won't be announced until the end of the month. |
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bballguy
224 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2015 : 09:20:20
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| This is when Daddy Ball comes to an end! |
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prestont
197 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2015 : 09:53:39
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We just want to go and enjoy watching our son play baseball. Glad that his first HS try-outs are done, and our son can focus on working hard to get better & help his team.
Definitely interesting how try-out's are quite different throughout the counties & schools.
Best of luck to all - stay warm, and looking forward to seeing folks around the HS ballparks this spring. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2015 : 10:24:25
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quote:
Originally posted by bballguy
This is when Daddy Ball comes to an end!
And Donor Ball starts!
Or Board Member Ball!
Or Coach's Pet Ball!
There will always be an off-the-field reason little Jonny isn't batting lead off and playing short. Won't have anything to do with the fact that he can't hit a curve ball. |
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HS Teams
