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HITANDRUN
436 Posts |
 Posted - 05/13/2014 : 19:03:10
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Ball is hit and two outfielders move toward the ball and neither calls it but both could make the catch, neither touch it and it hits the ground. Hit or Error?
I say it's an Error but some say since it doesn't touch a glove it has to be a hit.
It is not necessary that the fielder touch the ball to be charged with an error. If a ground ball goes through a fielder's legs or a pop fly falls untouched and in the scorer's judgment the fielder could have handled the ball with ordinary effort, an error shall be charged.
What say you guys? |
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Marlin
109 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2014 : 21:47:10
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| Guess your talking about the Yu Darvish vs. Boston situation. I say E9 but that's just me. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2014 : 21:50:02
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It was ruled an error the other night in the Texas game which broke up a perfect game for Darvish. Ball between 2nd baseman and right fielder. RF should have called and taken it, dropped and neither called it, ruled an error, although many disagreed that it was and should have been ruled a hit.
In 9th, with two out and no hitter still intact, single through the right side ended the no-no.
http://deadspin.com/yu-darvish-loses-perfect-game-on-error-sparks-argument-1574356612 |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2014 : 22:04:59
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| That would be considered a mental mistake by the fielders. A mental mistake cannot be an error. An error is a physical mistake. I would score it a hit - unfortunately. |
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CoachMark
216 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2014 : 22:22:27
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
That would be considered a mental mistake by the fielders. A mental mistake cannot be an error. An error is a physical mistake. I would score it a hit - unfortunately.
Agree with bballman. Almost all balls that land in the outfield untouched are hits. Typically those balls that 'could' be caught are not due to either a) the scenario above where there is a mental error between two players or b) a strong wind or light distraction albeit sun or lighting. In both of those cases, the balls should be scored as hits. But it is possible that a ball that lands in the outfield untouched is simply mis-judged and the player should have caught it. It just doesn't happen that often.
Form NCAA rulebook . . .
SECTION 16—Error
a. An error is charged against any fielder (pitchers included) for each misplay that prolongs the time at bat of the batter or the time as a runner of a base runner or permits a runner to advance one or more bases.
Note 1: Slow handling of the ball that does not involve me- chanical misplay shall not be construed as an error.
Note 2: It is not necessary that the fielder touch the ball to be charged with an error. If a ground ball goes through a fielder’s legs or a pop fly falls untouched and, in the scorer’s judgment, the fielder could have handled the ball with ordinary effort, an error should be charged.
Note 3: Mental mistakes or misjudgments are not to be scored as errors unless specifically covered in the rules.
b. An error shall be charged against any fielder when he catches a thrown ball or a ground ball in time to put out any runner on a force play and fails to tag the base or the runner, including a batter-runner on a play at first base.
c. An error shall be charged against any fielder whose throw takes an unnatural bounce, touches a base or the pitcher’s rub- ber, or touches a runner, a fielder or an umpire, thereby permit- ting any runner to advance. Apply this rule even when it appears to be an injustice to a fielder whose throw was accurate. Every base advanced by a runner must be accounted for.
d. Charge only one error on any wild throw, regardless of the number of bases advanced by runners.
e. An error shall be charged against any fielder whose failure to stop, or try to stop, an accurately thrown ball permits a run- ner to advance, providing there was occasion for the throw. If, in the scorer’s judgment, there was no occasion for the throw, an error shall be charged to the fielder who threw the ball.
Exceptions—
(1) A base on balls, a base awarded to a batter for being hit by
a pitched ball, a balk, a passed ball or a wild pitch shall not
be scored as an error.
(2) No error is charged to the catcher for a wild throw in an at-
tempt to prevent a stolen base unless the base runner ad-
vances an extra base because of a wild throw.
(3) No player is charged with an error for a poor throw in an attempt to complete a double play unless the throw is so wild that it permits a runner to advance an additional base. However, if a player drops a thrown ball when by holding it
he would have completed a double play, it is an error.
(4) A fielder is not charged with an error for accurately throw- ing to a base whose baseman fails to stop or try to stop the ball, provided there was good reason for such a throw. If the runner advances because of the throw, the error is charged to the baseman or fielder who should have covered that
base.
(5) If a fielder drops a fly ball or fumbles a ground ball, but re-
covers the ball in time to force a runner, he is not charged
with an error.
(6) No error shall be charged against any fielder who permits a
foul fly to fall safely with a runner on third base and fewer than two outs if, in the judgment of the official scorer, the fielder deliberately allows the ball to fall in order to prevent the runner on third from scoring after a catch.
f. When an umpire awards the batter or any runner or run- ners one or more bases because of interference or obstruction, charge the fielder who committed the interference or obstruc- tion with one error, no matter how many bases the batter, run- ner or runners, may be advanced.
Note: Do not charge an error if obstruction does not change the play in the opinion of the scorer. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2014 : 23:29:20
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| It's a hit... |
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chollyred
29 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2014 : 07:05:29
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| Same thing happened the other night in a Brave's game. It was originally scored as an error, but then was changed to a hit. |
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HITANDRUN
436 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2014 : 09:39:25
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Why would you credit a batter who should have been out? What's the difference between an outfielder running up and the ball hitting square in his glove and then bouncing out and an outfielder running up on the same play and missing it completely because he thought the other player was going to catch it? How would you interpret the following rule?
10.12 Errors
Rule 10.12(a)(1) If a ground ball goes through a fielder's legs or a fly ball falls untouched and, in the scorer's judgment, the fielder could have handled the ball with ordinary effort, the official scorer shall charge such fielder with an error. |
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Buckner
44 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2014 : 11:20:42
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| if the fielder could have handled the ball with ordinary effort, an error should be charged. |
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nwgadad
137 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2014 : 11:48:17
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Depends on who is pitching and or hitting and who is scorekeeping. If it effects the scorekeepers son it will be in their benefit!  |
Edited by - nwgadad on 05/14/2014 12:07:53 |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2014 : 15:45:38
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quote:
Originally posted by HITANDRUN
Why would you credit a batter who should have been out? What's the difference between an outfielder running up and the ball hitting square in his glove and then bouncing out and an outfielder running up on the same play and missing it completely because he thought the other player was going to catch it? How would you interpret the following rule?
10.12 Errors
Rule 10.12(a)(1) If a ground ball goes through a fielder's legs or a fly ball falls untouched and, in the scorer's judgment, the fielder could have handled the ball with ordinary effort, the official scorer shall charge such fielder with an error.
Because one is a physical miscue and one is mental. If a SS fielded a ball, then looked around, say to make a play at 2nd with a runner on 1st, and by the time he threw it to first, the runner was safe. It would not be an error because it was a mental mistake. Even though if he'd come up firing, the runner would have been out. Same with this. The outfielder thought the other fielder would make the play, so it is a mental mistake, not a physical one. The SS with the ball between his legs did not make a mental mistake, he made a physical one. Just because he didn't touch it doesn't mean it wasn't a physical mistake.
I have seen pop flys in the infield fall to the ground with three players looking at each other. ALWAYS scored a hit, because it was a mental mistake on the part of all players involved.
Might not seem fair to some, but it is what it is. |
Edited by - bballman on 05/14/2014 15:53:33 |
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Tribe
82 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2014 : 16:11:37
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| Score it similarly as when a fielder loses a pop-fly in the lights. It's ruled a hit...which really stinks for the pitcher who, in both cases, has done his job. |
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2014 : 16:32:57
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| Hit! |
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Marlin
109 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2014 : 09:16:07
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| Score was officially changed from E9 to a hit for Ortiz |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2014 : 13:09:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Marlin
Score was officially changed from E9 to a hit for Ortiz
Ortiz's dad is a scorekeeper??!?!? Who knew?   |
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743
215 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2014 : 09:01:14
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How would you score diving plays? 3B dives comes up and throws the ball over the 1st baseman's head or bobbles it coming up?
Would the fact that he dove negate the throwing error because the error occurred bobble or overthrow from getting up after the dive?
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2014 : 10:10:56
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| Generally, I would consider a diving play beyond ordinary effort and would give the hit. But, as with all these plays, you would probably have to be there to be totally sure. |
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2014 : 12:12:13
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| If fielded cleanly and the throw would have CLEARLY beaten the runner, I would probably give an error. Anything else would be a hit in my book. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2014 : 15:53:12
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quote:
Originally posted by hshuler
If fielded cleanly and the throw would have CLEARLY beaten the runner, I would probably give an error. Anything else would be a hit in my book.
Unless the bad throw resulted in an extra base. Then it's an error.
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Hit or Error?
