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spliter
121 Posts |
 Posted - 04/15/2014 : 08:30:53
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J C Mullins field, Canton,Ga. best locate it now before this happen to you. We are a Major out of town team with players as far away as Savannah. A parents gets a horrible location reading from their GPS for Mullins field. Our team only has 7 players without them. I watch the other coach do his job and notifies Umps to the fact. We start the game batting first with 7. We score & out 3 comes before the 7th batter. The Umps knew how close the lost parent was. The game started on time and we start to take the field as our late players arrive . We now have 9 on the field. For the most part no delay. This is a pool game. Forfeit is called by the Ump while the 9 are on the field. You can see the kids disappointment on both sides. The kids from both teams came to play. When I saw the TD I asked whats the deal? He said he got a call from a parent that asked can you start a game with 7 that was all that was said and the TD said no. That info was relayed to the Umps. The TD then told me if all the facts were known that the kids were walking on the field the game would have been played unfortunately the site manager wasn't present to verify the situation. We give consideration to out of town/state teams.
Mullins is a hard field to find, being an out of town team, a pool game, and pretty much on time for baseball would you want your kid to play one of the better teams in the State and be challenged or take a forfeit and not get any reps? Would you cut an out of town team some slack? We are here for our kids to improve & play ball win or lose. The AAA team could have done well in Silver and played more games but ended up in Gold. As much as travel ball cost I don't wouldn't want to be shorted games.
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neverquit
128 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2014 : 08:52:02
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| I heard about that. Didn't know the kids were there on the field when it was called. Its a shame. Out of town teams should be given some leeway especially at Mullins field. I spend way too much money & time to get my kid better for high school. You need to play. It wouldn't have happened with our team. I think if they knew by taking a forfeit they would have to face the Astros they would have played. Karma |
Edited by - neverquit on 04/15/2014 09:47:47 |
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sailor
18 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2014 : 09:03:33
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| J.C. Mullins is definitely out in the boonies. It sounds like what happened was miscommunication due to the TD taking a call from a parent. IMHO he should have told the parent to talk to their head coach, and if the head coach had an issue he should call the TD. All the other parents on your opponent's team were probably ready to play also. Too bad one cranky parent was able to mess things up for two teams. I wonder if the same parent was also whining to their head coach that little Junior didn't get enough playing time this weekend. |
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bballguy
224 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2014 : 09:07:16
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| Spliter....man this is a tough one for you and your kids and I certainly can understand your frustration as this has happened to us in the past. I would encourage you to look at the positives to this unfortunate incident vs the negatives. Playing devils advocate this is a great opportunity for you to teach the kids a tough life lesson. Deadlines matter!!! If you are late to anything in life there are unfortunate consequences regardless of the circumstances that created the lateness. Yes a tough lesson at a young age, but one in which they may remember for the remainder of their life and long term that's more important than 1 baseball game you missed. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2014 : 09:23:25
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| Who could have corrected this? Did the other team's coaches lobby for the forfeit? If so, then they aren't really there for, "(their) kids to improve & play ball win or lose," imho. Otherwise, shame on the umps for not being a little more flexible. |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2014 : 09:42:17
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| That's horrible. I'm not sure which tourney, but we had an issue with an ump and tournament director this weekend too-- and a rules interpretation. And ironically got the same answer from the tournament director, "that's not how it was presented to me"... The only difference with our situation, was the director was sitting right there watching!!!! You need it "presented", even though you watched it? |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2014 : 10:12:56
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So here's a (likely) less popular opinion.
The rules should be clear ahead of time and it's the responsibility of the coaches to know them. If the rules state you cannot begin game with 7 players, and that's all you have, there's not much beef with having rules upheld.
Also, it is the parents and coaches responsibility to know where fields are and to arrive on time. GPS not finding it isn't an excuse, sorry. Wait until you get to high school and have to find some of those obscure fields for the first time. Know what the team does? They provide directions and landmarks in advance. If you're an "out of town" team, even more scrutiny should be done. Make a dry run and find your fields in advance.
Your question really boils down to whether something is more important than the rules (in this case, the opportunity to play and develop, based on the title of your post). The rules were upheld, perhaps stringently, but to the letter nonetheless. I agree that sometimes extenuating circumstances arise and a team is penalized. Not sure that not doing your homework to allow sufficient time to arrive for your game is a valid excuse. I might argue that allowing boys to take positions without proper warm-up is worse than protecting young arms and muscles would have been worse than taking a forfeit.
As others above mention, learn and teach from it. Start times matter and the fact that a few were unable to arrive on time impacted the entire team. I agree it's unfortunate, but nothing wrong was done and your best bet is to make some lemonade with the the lemons at this point. My guess is that this won't ever happen to a team of yours in the future.
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LittleDawg
91 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2014 : 10:18:55
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My son was scheduled to play the next game & we arrived early to see you guys play so I saw this first hand. Saw the Top of the first as described but also saw definite stall tactics taking place. I'm not saying it's wrong, but not exactly as described.
Catcher took awhile getting gear on, and by the time the 2 players showed up, the pitcher had thrown at least 20 warm-ups.
There was at least 10-12 minute delay between Top of first and when the 2 players showed up.
So Splitter - I agree to a certain extent and would want my kids to play at the highest level and get their reps. Definitely would feel like we didn't get our moneys worth if they only played 2 games. No pride in a forfeit.
That said, we usually have to be at games an hour and a half before our games regardless of location. So while I feel back for the boys and understand getting lost, your parents still had plenty of time to get there. Chalk it up to a lesson learned and make sure you send directions to parents prior to the next game.
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2014 : 10:35:47
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| I agree with in the know and LittleDawg. We have always planned on being at the field at least an hour and a half ahead of time. That would be a long time to be lost. Also, are you really saying that you planned on playing a tournament with only 9 players? Especially being from out of town. What if a player got hurt? What if a player got sick? What if you needed some pitching? I can't see playing a tournament with only 9 players showing up. |
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ABC_Baseball
90 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2014 : 10:56:30
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| This sucks but I understand why it happened. If a team doesn't have the required numbers to players a game requires, then you have no choice but to take a forfeit. I don't think there is any harm in playing the game despite the forfeit being in place. That way the kids get the game in and maybe learn something. You can keep score and ask the umps to continue to call the game, but at the end of the game, the team that was short loses no matter what happens. |
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wareagle
324 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2014 : 11:28:44
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I think that most of our team accepts the loss as our teams fault. The problem is in the way that it was handled.
1. If they wanted to forfeit the game, the time to do it was before the game started.
2. It should have been the opposing teams coach that made the decision and not a mom.
3. The field was in the middle of nowhere, behind an abandoned school, restrooms vandalized, no concessions and no way a site director could be there to make a decision. This is not what we thought we were paying for.
4.The real losers in this situation were the kids from both teams that got shorted innings that were paid for. This game is about reps, and both teams missed out. |
Edited by - wareagle on 04/15/2014 11:33:31 |
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Bob Balker
456 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2014 : 13:03:15
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| He's definitely had some hiccups the past 2 weeks on several instances |
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spliter
121 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2014 : 13:20:09
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Yes rules are rules and the TD said if he were there the game would have been played. We will play 5 times in Fla., also SC, Ala. & have over 17 tourneys on the schedule this is a first and last time this will happen. I was thinking of the kids, the way it happened, minimum delay and the bigger picture which is play ball and improve.
Bballguy -your right on the money. We did exactly that. Anytime we can teach life experiences to our kids it a plus. Our action effect us and others.
Allstar-We could have corrected it by being on time. Yes, their staff asked what they were entitled too. Yes, MPO is the staff didn't want to play us.
ITK- Your right & I agree rules are rules. But our HS team ride on a bus together to away games. Wish we could do dry runs. We have parents driving 325 plus miles to Mullins. lol It cost on average $400.00 per family for a weekend @ ECB for us to play. I can assure you they do their best. It cost us all and indirectly messed up the Gold bracket because the number 1 seeded had to throw everything at us to win which left them short pitching for the finals.
We are to arrive to the games a hour ahead. But this was Murphy's law at its best. Had to be there. Feel sorry for the parent.
As far as only 9 players. We have kids that are still playing Middle School and some that don't. We can't penalize those that don't have Middle School. We have more pitching with our 9 than most Majors have with 13. All our players are pitchers not throwers. They want to play and we keep ours pitchers on a strict pitch count. But we need more players. If you know any 13 yr. old Elite Majors players they are welcome to tryout. We may pull out of the Astros Invitation because 9 is too tight. Lesson learned. We will not have a full roster till Middle school is over.
Sorry got off the subject which was Play or Forfeit. Bottom line according to the TD if he were there they would have played. Team that is driving four and fives hours do get some consideration. We made a human BooBoo in a pool game and there was a few minutes delay in the middle of the first. If you love baseball you will play no matter what. We will jump at the chance to play MVP Elite Miami. We may lose but I want that challenge. I want my kid to get use to pressure situations. I want him on the mound against the best with the other team and coaches yelling and at the plate with bases loaded. We won Major State last year. Are we the best team in Ga.? Maybe not. But we can beat anyone at anytime. We come with our Game On. Just ask the Astros or Cougars. Go Bulls!
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Edited by - spliter on 04/15/2014 13:52:26 |
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2014 : 13:55:17
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We had a game last year where we only had 8 players with another on the way. We were told we could bat with eight, but if number nine was not there by the time we took the field we would forfeit. And we did end up forfeiting. I know the other team wanted to play also. No one wants to drive all over town to head home without getting a game in.
I don't blame the other team, the TD or the umps. We could not field a full team. Our loss. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2014 : 14:15:53
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| The other thing to consider is liability. It may be that if it is not an official game, their insurance would not cover any injuries that may occur. I think I have heard that before. |
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2014 : 14:53:02
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
The other thing to consider is liability. It may be that if it is not an official game, their insurance would not cover any injuries that may occur. I think I have heard that before.
I have heard that also. Once the game is a forfeit, they are not covered. |
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ChinMusic
126 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2014 : 15:04:09
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
The other thing to consider is liability. It may be that if it is not an official game, their insurance would not cover any injuries that may occur. I think I have heard that before.
As an umpire, liability would have been a concern for me. I would have allowed a delayed start (within reason), but would not have allowed that game to start. It's a tough situation for both teams, but it is what it is.
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ATLDodgers
21 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2014 : 13:27:41
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It is definitely a tough situation. Being an out of town team, might make sense for everyone to leave from the hotel at the same time and caravan over, or put the boys 1-3 cars so they get there early and definitely. Sure, it would be nice for an umpire or a tournament director to allow an unofficial game to be played, but thats not going to happen.
Whenever we've been short in the past, you explain it to the ump and you automatically take visitor and place the missing kids at the bottom of the lineup. You stall for time as much as you can and have those kids sprint to the field when they get there. Then, Sunday night you come on to this site and make a posting in the "Teams looking for players" section and find some more guys so that doesnt happen again. If players arent going to be serious enough to be there on time, find more players. |
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Critical Mass
277 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2014 : 08:06:40
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quote:
Originally posted by ATLDodgers
Then, Sunday night you come on to this site and make a posting in the "Teams looking for players" section and find some more guys so that doesnt happen again. If players arent going to be serious enough to be there on time, find more players.
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Whats better/ to develop your player or forfeit?
