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AllStar
762 Posts |
 Posted - 06/13/2013 : 09:22:26
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A Triple Crown pool game scheduled for 8:30 just started 50 minutes late because blue never showed. They pulled a kid out of the stands and are making do with one unscheduled ump.
Inexcusable. |
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ChinMusic
126 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2013 : 09:59:27
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Seems a bit hasty to label blue as the bad guy here without knowing all the facts. Maybe the TD didn't get that particular game scheduled? Maybe the umpire coordinator made a mistake and didn't schedule the game?
I agree that stinks and the delay will ripple through the day on that field.
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2013 : 10:33:12
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quote:
Originally posted by ChinMusic
Seems a bit hasty to label blue as the bad guy here without knowing all the facts. Maybe the TD didn't get that particular game scheduled? Maybe the umpire coordinator made a mistake and didn't schedule the game?
I agree that stinks and the delay will ripple through the day on that field.
I didn't lay blame and have no idea whose fault it was. Ultimately it lies with the TD, though and the teams should get some kind of refund because they aren't getting what they paid for.
Not my battle to fight, though. I'm just a dad with a big mouth at this point. :) |
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christheump
351 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2013 : 10:36:38
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| Maybe he was injured in a car wreck...... you never know. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2013 : 10:48:39
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quote:
Originally posted by christheump
Maybe he was injured in a car wreck...... you never know.
There are supposed to be two, maybe they both were.
They are both there now. I'll ask someone there if they look hurt. |
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christheump
351 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2013 : 14:01:13
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quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
quote:
Originally posted by christheump
Maybe he was injured in a car wreck...... you never know.
There are supposed to be two, maybe they both were.
They are both there now. I'll ask someone there if they look hurt.
Maybe they were told the wrong time....Maybe they were told the wrong park....Maybe you are mad at the wrong person.... |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2013 : 14:24:59
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quote:
Originally posted by christheump
quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
quote:
Originally posted by christheump
Maybe he was injured in a car wreck...... you never know.
There are supposed to be two, maybe they both were.
They are both there now. I'll ask someone there if they look hurt.
Maybe they were told the wrong time....Maybe they were told the wrong park....Maybe you are mad at the wrong person....
Where did I say it was their fault? In fact, since they both showed up at 10:30 and the second game of the day was at 10:50, I would say that they were probably on time based on the information they were given.
So that would narrow it down to either the TD or the umpires' boss.
Re-read my first post. I didn't blame anybody. I just said that it's inexcusable that two teams and their fans were at a game site at 7:30 AM, but they didn't get the umps they paid for until 10:30. |
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christheump
351 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2013 : 15:06:52
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| well your title says "speaking of umps"....that pretty much indicates the subject..and would lead one to deduct that as being the object of your anger. |
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baseballcrazymom
58 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2013 : 15:52:44
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TC event in the boonies this AM being poorly umped as well. Among the things that bug me: HP umpire never addressed the official score keeper of start time. HP umpire lost count of balls and strikes TWICE causing the other team to lose a walk and nearly caused our team to miss out on a foul tip out. HP umpire starting with one strike zone and changing it after about about 20 pitches. Neither umpire calling infield fly when it was one. And a giant stink about a sub taking a pitch without anybody announcing any substitution to anybody at all.
Hey Gainesville...this ain't rec ball...
There might be more...I got disgusted and stopped paying attention |
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2013 : 16:29:32
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| It's sad we can't do ANYTHING about these umps that really don't give a flip. I've witnessed all the same situations many, many, many times. I would say there's about a 5-7% great ump rate in my book. Meaning out of 50+ games and over a hundred different umps about 5-7 really called a great game and did a great job! Out of that same 100 i would say 10-15 did a good job. The rest, well lets just say they were the other 78-85%. You just learn to live with it??? Maybe it will get better in high school next year. |
Edited by - Gwinnett on 06/13/2013 17:46:47 |
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christheump
351 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2013 : 08:44:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Gwinnett
It's sad we can't do ANYTHING about these umps that really don't give a flip. I've witnessed all the same situations many, many, many times. I would say there's about a 5-7% great ump rate in my book. Meaning out of 50+ games and over a hundred different umps about 5-7 really called a great game and did a great job! Out of that same 100 i would say 10-15 did a good job. The rest, well lets just say they were the other 78-85%. You just learn to live with it??? Maybe it will get better in high school next year.
Serious question...What contitutes a great ump compared to a good ump? Is it zero blown calls compared to 1 or 2? Is it the strike zone they are calling? Is it their positioning on the field? Is it accidentally forgetting to add that strike after the passed ball and close play at the plate with another throw to 3B when the kid who was on 1st goes to 3rd on the play at the plate? Is it when the PU talks too much to the catcher, or not enough to the catcher? Do you want use telling the catcher to bring it in a ball to get that outside call? Is it when you dont like the way they verbalize a strike?
The reason I ask this is that I have seen what I considered to be great umps be dogged cussed by coaches and parents as bad umps and bad umps be praised by those same people as umpire gods... |
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Nole27
27 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2013 : 09:54:14
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Bad, good, or great, all umps miss calls from time to time. It is my belief however that if you are calling tournament ball, you should at a minimum, know the rules. I have two cases from the past month or so that are silly and just plain bad umpiring...
First one - Triple Crown tournament in Savannah. I go to the mound and pull a pitcher in the 2nd inning. Later in the game, I visit that pitcher. Blue tells me that next time I visit, I have to pull the pitcher. I tell him that in Triple Crown (Federation rules), you have three visits and have to pull on the fourth. I also let him know that my first trip out, I pulled the pitcher, so that wasn't a visit. He looks at his partner, laughs at me, and proceeds to tell me i don't know what I am talking about and that any time you go to the mound, it is a charged visit and you only get two and have to pull on third. He proceeds to tell me that was the way it had been called all weekend. Move to next game and the umps actually knew the rules. That... in my mind is a bad ump.
Second one - USSSA tournament. 1st and 3rd situation, we are batting. Pitcher fakes to third and throws to first, nothing called. We ask blue from the dugout, "That's a balk right?" Blue proceeds to holler at us and says, no that's major league rules coach. We say, yes, you're right, and that's what we are playing. Since he saw what happened and simply didn't apply the rules, we ask if he can get help from home plate ump, he says... in the dugout and not another word. That, in my mind is a bad ump.
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2013 : 10:43:54
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Apparently the kid they pulled out of the stands did a pretty good job. I think he might have been associated with the host high school and there to prep the fields.
Tony should stroke him a check. |
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2013 : 10:58:54
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Chris, I was trying to get around not typing two pages of what everyone witnesses every weekend from the 78-85% of umps...lol
I'll start by saying umps are human like EVERYONE else and do make bad calls.
My simple rating system - just from a average dad who's witnessed thousands of baseball games over my lifetime.
1) Respectful of everyone's time - ump shows up ON TIME and gets the game going on time. Ump moves game along, no long chats at mound, hustles players in between innings, counts warm up pitches. Keeps game moving knowing time is an issue for everyone at the park.
2) The strike zone - be very consistent for both teams and ALL pitchers. Most umps fail this because the zone changes every batter or every inning or from pitcher to pitcher. I can't tell you how many times the zone changes with umps, causing very inconsistent umps.
3) Confidence/Knowledge making a call - for goodness sakes, KNOW THE RULES! Don't discuss your call every other inning with your partner because your not sure. Be confident in your call. This one kills me, the talking back and forth between umps because ones not sure or didn't know the rule.
4) Fairness/Approachability for all - listen to ALL parties then make a confident decision. To many umps won't let anyone approach them or listen to what a coach might have to say. Do the same for both teams.
5) base.Balls of steal - NOTHING rattles this ump! This one is my favorite and tops off this simple ump grading system. This ump can be screamed at, heckled at the whole game and acts like nothing happened and STILL calls a great game. Gotta love this guy!
That's my rating system. The first two usually tell me how a games going to go with the umps.
Most umps (not all) in High School, College, Pro would fall in great category COMPARED to what we see every weekend.
quote:
Originally posted by christheump
quote:
Originally posted by Gwinnett
It's sad we can't do ANYTHING about these umps that really don't give a flip. I've witnessed all the same situations many, many, many times. I would say there's about a 5-7% great ump rate in my book. Meaning out of 50+ games and over a hundred different umps about 5-7 really called a great game and did a great job! Out of that same 100 i would say 10-15 did a good job. The rest, well lets just say they were the other 78-85%. You just learn to live with it??? Maybe it will get better in high school next year.
Serious question...What contitutes a great ump compared to a good ump? Is it zero blown calls compared to 1 or 2? Is it the strike zone they are calling? Is it their positioning on the field? Is it accidentally forgetting to add that strike after the passed ball and close play at the plate with another throw to 3B when the kid who was on 1st goes to 3rd on the play at the plate? Is it when the PU talks too much to the catcher, or not enough to the catcher? Do you want use telling the catcher to bring it in a ball to get that outside call? Is it when you dont like the way they verbalize a strike?
The reason I ask this is that I have seen what I considered to be great umps be dogged cussed by coaches and parents as bad umps and bad umps be praised by those same people as umpire gods...
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mikepayne
173 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2013 : 11:09:08
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| That is half the problem, Federation rules one week MLB rules the next. Then in some tournaments you can have an EH with a DH, some tournaments a pitch means a whole inning pitched others break it down by thirds. Some tournaments (perfect game)mix Federation rules with MLB rules. Have I mentioned the bat rules which were seeming to change every year. My last game was when both coaches brought out a sheet of paper for a varsity game with what bats were legal due to certain whatever, I can't remember it was a couple of years ago. No excuse for lazy or tardy umps. If you see one record it, we all have phones that do that now. |
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F2202
63 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2013 : 18:04:06
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quote:
Originally posted by baseballcrazymom
TC event in the boonies this AM being poorly umped as well. Among the things that bug me: HP umpire never addressed the official score keeper of start time. HP umpire lost count of balls and strikes TWICE causing the other team to lose a walk and nearly caused our team to miss out on a foul tip out. HP umpire starting with one strike zone and changing it after about about 20 pitches. Neither umpire calling infield fly when it was one. And a giant stink about a sub taking a pitch without anybody announcing any substitution to anybody at all.
Hey Gainesville...this ain't rec ball...
There might be more...I got disgusted and stopped paying attention
LoL
The only people that need to know the start time are the umpires and the coaches. The official scorekeeper can ask one of the umpires or coaches, but I'm never going to seek out a spectator just to tell them the start time.
He lost track of the count TWICE? Big deal.
Maybe he was expecting the baseball to be good, but then found out that the pitching sucked so he had to change the zone to call some strikes. Happens all the time.
As far as the subs go, unannounced are legal as long as its an eligible player. If I had to guess the coach announced it to the umpire and that's good enough. Maybe nobody announced it, still good enough. The official scorer probably should have recognized that 16 was now batting where 24 was before.
Just enjoy watching your son play the game. Really you're just a spectator, umpires don't care about what you think. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2013 : 23:09:42
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I don't care what level you play at, there are ALWAYS things people can come up with to not be happy about the umpires. ALWAYS, whether it be 8u, HS, college, MLB. I think the difference is that as the players get older, the parents and spectators don't get so wrapped up in it. I'm not even going to get into the specifics of good and bad umpires. They are what they are.
Part of the issue is that there are so many games that go on throughout the state, there is NO way you are going to get all great umpires. You have travel ball starting at like 6 years old up through college ball going on over the summer. There are hundreds, if not thousands of games going on across the state. There is no way you can have that many quality umpires. The younger the age, the less experienced the umpires will be. Some of them are HS kids learning the trade, some are older that just may not be that good or they are new themselves. Bottom line is if the calls don't go your way, you get mad. Come on, just watch your kids play and enjoy it. Don't get so wrapped up in the wins and losses that you lose the enjoyment of watching your kids play the greatest game on earth. Believe me, the kids don't get as upset or wrapped up in it as the parents do.
An ump is late for a game? Big deal. There was a mixup somewhere. It's not the end of the world.
And some of you are complaining about things the umps have no control over. FED rules, OBR, LL, MLB, the umps have nothing to do with that. How many of us can memorize the intricacies of 5 or 6 different rule sets? Especially someone who might be a brand new ump trying to break into the game? Have some patience or you may prevent some of these new kids from hanging around long enough to be one of the "good" umps.
I might be stepping on some toes here, but I really don't care. Umps are going to make bad calls, they are going to make mistakes, some will be good, some will be not so good. To some degree, this will be the case as long as your kid is playing baseball. I have always taught my son that you have to adjust to the umpire. You will get some calls, you will not get some calls. It all works out in the long run.
I know I'm rambling, it just bothers me when there is this much animosity about umps. It's teaching the kids the wrong thing, IMHO and it is keeping people from enjoying the game. Your kids will only be kids for a short period of time. Enjoy it. |
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Speaking of Umpires
