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gasbag
281 Posts |
 Posted - 08/15/2012 : 09:49:11
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| OK so there has been some awesome threads on this subject but I have a specific question regarding the "timing" of these options and players health. Many camps / clinics occur in the off season, how do you keep your player in baseball shape so he can perform his best ? My son plays multiple sports in his HS, I hear that college baseball coaches love multi-sport HS athletes but I'm perplexed at how you can possibly be a multi-sport athlete and have your arm, timing for hitting etc. in top condition in the fall or winter when your involved in another sport ? My fear is having him attend some of these but I don't want to injure him physically or mentally ( by a substandard performance . |
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loveforthegame25
448 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2012 : 10:03:53
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| Gas, try to get on a team that will let him go to a showcase or 3 during the baseball prime season. Thats what we do. We encourage our kids to go during the summer. I hear you, that would be a problem for football players for sure. |
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neverquit
128 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2012 : 10:48:48
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| Most schools have camps more than once a year. Find one that fits your schedule. Ga.,Ga. Tech and Ken. also have a winter camp. You have to hit/throw every week. In the basement or a indoor facility. You cant get out of shape/timing. Throwing the football keeps his arm in shape. You have to make the time. It is a pain at times but no easy answer. |
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Dr. Old School
314 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2012 : 10:58:28
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I will talk a minute about the college camps. Many have hitting camps in Dec, which is usually the time when players have to start hitting anyway to prepare for HS. Most of these are indoor and more about mechanics than timing of hitting live pitching.
They have pitching camps in early Jan which is the time you start throwing and getting ready for HS as well. Those are indoor and also about mechanics and pitching approach and not about pitching to live batters. These seem to line up better with multi-sport players who will have to be doing winter work to be ready for the HS baseball season.
I agree with your concerns with doing the Jan Showcases where you play games and are trying to show your skills against live pitchers and batters. That is a lot more difficult to be ready for. In order to stay ready for that, you may not be able to take the necessary down-time needed to rest, if you are not playing other sports, or get enough work time in if you are playing another sport.
Playing football as your other sport is at least a little easier for this schedule than basketball. At least with Football you can take a break from Aug - Oct from hitting and/or Pitching, then start back in Nov and be ready to do the winter camps and the winter showcases, along with being ready for the HS season. You will have also gotten 3 months of throwing rest along the way.
If you play basketball, you may want to go to some of the fall college camps and PG Showcases before you shut down during basketball season. It does make it harder doing the winter camps and showcases since that is in the middle of your season.
As you can see, depending on which sports you are talking about, when you attend camps and/or showcases is different.
If you play both football and basketball, then summer camps and showcases are probably your only option. That may cut into your summer schedule a little, but summer is about getting the visibility if your desire is to play past HS.
I am sure there are others that have some good input. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2012 : 11:00:28
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Awesome question. It is certainly a balancing act. Yes, college coaches say that they like multi sport athletes. But, as you know, these days, every sport wants you year round. That is part of the problem. The other problem is the one you stated. If you're playing football, how do you do the camp/showcase circuit that occurs during the fall? I'm not sure there is a good answer. Not only do you need time to continue to throw and hit, but how do you show up to a camp/showcase Saturday morning after a Friday night football game all battered and bruised. I know several kids who tried to do that and had a hard time on Saturday morning.
My son didn't play multiple sports, but often times, especially for pitchers, fall is the rest time. But then you have a showcase in September, a camp in October and a showcase in December. How do you rest and still stay in the shape you need to be in for these events. All I can say is it takes dedication. If you want to stick with both sports, you may need to decide early which one you want to try to play in college. If you play football and baseball and you want to play baseball in college, then you need to have the dedication to hit and throw after football practice, even though you are dead tired. You really don't want to take the chance of not showing well on that one opportunity you have to make an impression.
I know this is not a popular opinion, but I really think in this day and age, unless you are a Jeff Francoeur, there comes a time that you need to pick a sport. It really is just too demanding to do multiple sports and be at the top of your game for both. There is just SO much competition out there for so few spots at the college level that if you don't have the best skills and have those skills show at 100% when you have the opportunity, you may just find yourself on the outside looking in.
If you want to stick with both, you just have to do double the work, especially during such a critical time as the fall when the showcases and camps are such a big part of recuriting. |
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2012 : 11:59:29
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| I should add..... he goes from baseball to football to wrestling only to start with baseball all over again. There doesn't seem to be ANY off season, let alone recovery time as each sport takes its' toll on his body ( in different ways ). |
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diamonddad
59 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2012 : 14:02:10
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Having a multi-sport athlete definitely makes it more difficult. My sophomore son is a single sport athlete and is in the process of going to a few of the larger D1 "showcase" camps as the really good programs are already in the process of looking to make verbal commitment offers to the elite 2015 graduates. I know that it seems extremely early, but we have been told that this is how the game is played so if you are really interested in the school and they tell you to come to the show case, then you should go.
Staying in shape is difficult in that we had an extremely heavy summer schedule and it didn't allow him much rest. Normally we would be shutting things down, but will have to keep throwing bullpens and long toss through the middle of September until this process is over. |
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Dr. Old School
314 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2012 : 17:01:03
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diamonddad,
Remember, though, no school is going to make their best offer to a freshman. Why should they? The value at that early stage is getting to say you have a college offer. If you get a good offer, you have to believe you will get better offers, from either them or other schools, the closer you get to your senior year. I have seen several players accept offers as Freshman or Sophomores, which were good offers, but were never GREAT offers and by committing, all other schools stopped spending time recruiting them. They had no chance to improve their situation. They also had no leverage with their current committed school because they already accepted the first offer. While getting an offer as a Freshman sounds cool, it could actually work against you. Just an opinion based on some observations.
Freshman and Sophomore offers do happen but they are not the norm. Colleges want to see players be a little more physically mature before getting to their best offer. |
Edited by - Dr. Old School on 08/15/2012 20:18:29 |
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a1prog
164 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2012 : 23:10:47
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| bballman is correct. its just very hard to be a multi-sport kid if you have as a goal to play college ball. and, football makes it very difficult. here's why; imagine playing on friday night, getting hit, dishing hits, getting home late and then the next day (saturday) you are headed to a college camp/showcase/pg event. its just very hard to perform at your best level when you are worn out. we played with multiple kids who were two sport guys and then their junior or senior year they dropped football because they wanted to focus on baseball. and in doing so wanted to attend the fall camps and showcases. these kids did better and felt better and when asked they will tell you they liked playing football but not playing was the best thing for them both physically and mentally. yes there are exceptions to this but they are just that- exceptions. |
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2012 : 09:45:32
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I hear you fella's on the football issue but that is asking an awful lot for a testosterone laden lad to walk away from the BIGGEST social situation event of his high school years. Let's face it, no other sport packs a stadium with girls like football ! How can we expect our young men to walk away from that ? My son NEVER played football until high school....he saw what the deal was for HS football and went out ! A full stadium, Friday night lights, battling with your brothers, post game bragging and comraderie, Homecoming, fall dance etc etc etc .....man that's hard for a lad to walk away from !
I really want him to focus on his dream of baseball but how do you ask a lad to forgo the above ? |
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2012 : 11:42:38
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quote:
Originally posted by gasbag
I hear you fella's on the football issue but that is asking an awful lot for a testosterone laden lad to walk away from the BIGGEST social situation event of his high school years. Let's face it, no other sport packs a stadium with girls like football ! How can we expect our young men to walk away from that ? My son NEVER played football until high school....he saw what the deal was for HS football and went out ! A full stadium, Friday night lights, battling with your brothers, post game bragging and comraderie, Homecoming, fall dance etc etc etc .....man that's hard for a lad to walk away from !
I really want him to focus on his dream of baseball but how do you ask a lad to forgo the above ?
Good question. My son is a raising 8th grader and I know when he hits HS he is going to want to play football. And I really don't see a reason to tell him no other then it gets in the way of baseball. Baseball is his first choice, but it aint gonna be easy. |
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diamonddad
59 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2012 : 16:47:35
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Dr. Old School,
Thanks for the response. I have read your posts for many years and value your opinion.
Honestly, I am a bit concerned/worried about the possibility of getting an offer this early in the game. If it's my son's number one school then the decision would be a bit easier, but if it not you may run the chance of possibly offending a coach and/or burning a bridge. I completely agree that waiting another year or two could sweeten the deal and potentially get you better offers from more schools, but I just don't know how much the difference would be. I know of a couple of rising sophomores that received 2/3-3/4 scholarships (position players, not pitchers) and were told that was the best they could do based on the 13 or so scholarships they would be giving for that graduating class.
I do have one question you might be able to answer. I have been told that some some out-of-state schools will wave the additional out-of-state cost for students with better GPAs (i.e. 3.5 and greater). This doesn't seem to be something that is talked about much and I was wondering if this is something you may have heard of and, if so, was it part of the schools recruiting process or did the player have to inquire about it?
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Old School
diamonddad,
Remember, though, no school is going to make their best offer to a freshman. Why should they? The value at that early stage is getting to say you have a college offer. If you get a good offer, you have to believe you will get better offers, from either them or other schools, the closer you get to your senior year. I have seen several players accept offers as Freshman or Sophomores, which were good offers, but were never GREAT offers and by committing, all other schools stopped spending time recruiting them. They had no chance to improve their situation. They also had no leverage with their current committed school because they already accepted the first offer. While getting an offer as a Freshman sounds cool, it could actually work against you. Just an opinion based on some observations.
Freshman and Sophomore offers do happen but they are not the norm. Colleges want to see players be a little more physically mature before getting to their best offer.
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2012 : 19:10:56
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Diamonddad, 1st of all a 67% or 75% offer is very high. I would clarify if that is all baseball money or a mixture of baseball and academic. Even then you may not get a straight answer. I know a kid going to a big D1 school who told everyone that he got 75%. Turned out, he got 25% baseball and the rest was academic. In D1, 25% is the minimum. Think about this. In D1, there are 11.7 scholarships available for 27 players. That's an average of 43% per player. The big pitchers usually get more, but very, very few get a full baseball ride. In D2, it's 9 scholarships, there is no minimum. D3 usually don't give baseball money. If you are being offered 67%-75%, it's a very, very good offer and if your son likes the school, jump on it, regardless of his age.
As far as the in state tuition for out of state students, this is something that is independent of baseball. There are situations that this could be available. However, you would have to meet the criteria at the school. I believe if it is done just for a baseball player, it would be considered scholarship money and go against the coach's budget. You may have to ask about it. The coach may be able to tell you who to talk to. |
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Dr. Old School
314 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2012 : 11:09:48
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Diamonddad,
There are some schools that have "Scholarships" that are given to out-of-state students that meet certain academic standards. Also, there are several states in the SE that have gone together and allow you to go to their school from another state, and pay in-state rates, if you are majoring in a program that is not carried by schools in your state. There is a website that shows you the majors between states that qualify. Theoretically you could major in one of these for the first two years until you establish state residency then change to something else for your last 2 years. The first two years are a lot of the same core classes anyway.
On the offending a coach by not taking a offer at as a Freshman or Sophomore, I think that can easily be handled by saying that you are highly interested in the program but feel that he needs to be a little further along in his HS career before locking down to a school. We definately want to stay engaged but need him to develop a little more before making that big of a decision. (You want to see how the classes before you progress with players actually showing up on campus to play vs being drafted. I have seen some players get their scholarships pulled back to "Preferred Walk-on" status because the class or two ahead of them had more players not go pro and decide to actually come to school). As was said above, there are 27 spots, and only 11.7 scholarships divided into nothing less than 1/4 scholarship. You have 46 1/4 scholarships to spread across 27 players, so there are not going to be many players getting more than a half baseball scholarship. With the HOPE Scholarship, that will pay for quite a bit more, so you could easily end up with 80% paid if you qualify for HOPE. Also remember, 27 players equates to just over 6 players per grade year. Obviously the older age groups may not have that many returning, but that is something you want to know going in. If you commit as a Freshman or Sophomore, there is no way to know this. I believe it would be worse to commit early and then pull out when you are a Junior than to say you would like to wait.
The hard part is having the patience to wait to see how things shake out before making this important of a decision. When they get to campus, if they don't like the situation, transferring brings on a new set of rules. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2012 : 12:08:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Old School
Diamonddad,
There are some schools that have "Scholarships" that are given to out-of-state students that meet certain academic standards. Also, there are several states in the SE that have gone together and allow you to go to their school from another state, and pay in-state rates, if you are majoring in a program that is not carried by schools in your state. There is a website that shows you the majors between states that qualify. Theoretically you could major in one of these for the first two years until you establish state residency then change to something else for your last 2 years. The first two years are a lot of the same core classes anyway.
Here is a link to the website that Doc is talking about:
http://www.sreb.org/page/1304/academic_common_market.html
Hope this helps. |
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College Camps / Perfect Game s etc
