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NGBSA-Suwanee
11 Posts |
 Posted - 05/10/2012 : 16:19:09
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I like this move... "PLAYING RULES COMMITTEE APPROVED PROPOSAL TO MAKE 1st-to-3rd PICK OFF MOVE CALLED A BALK"
Feedback anyone? |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2012 : 16:59:13
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quote:
Originally posted by NGBSA-Suwanee
I like this move... "PLAYING RULES COMMITTEE APPROVED PROPOSAL TO MAKE 1st-to-3rd PICK OFF MOVE CALLED A BALK"
Feedback anyone?
You mean third to first?
Any pick off move without an actual throw to the base should be a balk. Stepping off the rubber is one thing, jumping all over the place, arm cocked and no throw is deceptive and should be a balk |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2012 : 21:05:42
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What is at issue is with runners at 1st and 3rd and a RH pitcher on the mound, today, without stepping off the rubber, the pitcher can step toward 3rd, then turn and either fake or throw to 1st. This is not a balk.
However, same situation with a LH pitcher, the pitcher cannot step toward 1st and do anything but throw to 1st without it being a balk.
It's a complete double standard and it sounds like MLB is getting ready to remove the double standard so that it would be a balk for both situations. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2012 : 21:39:39
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quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
What is at issue is with runners at 1st and 3rd and a RH pitcher on the mound, today, without stepping off the rubber, the pitcher can step toward 3rd, then turn and either fake or throw to 1st. This is not a balk.
However, same situation with a LH pitcher, the pitcher cannot step toward 1st and do anything but throw to 1st without it being a balk.
It's a complete double standard and it sounds like MLB is getting ready to remove the double standard so that it would be a balk for both situations.
Not really a double standard as a LHP has a HUGE advantage when it comes to picking a runner off of 1st base.....They need to leave the dang game alone!! There is nothing wrong with the game the way it is....... |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2012 : 22:04:40
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| Advantage or not, how is it not a double standard? Exact same move. So a RH pitcher has a HUGE advantage when it comes to picking a runner off of 3rd base. |
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4bagger
131 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2012 : 22:12:00
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Most other sports evolve over time. Baseball can do the same. I agree with ITK that it is a double standard and should be corrected.
Instant replay should also be incorporated like in the NFL. Limited number of challenges or something along those lines. |
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NGBSA-Suwanee
11 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2012 : 22:50:08
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I do mean 3rd to 1st, but I just quoted from MLB Network....
MLB says 1st to 3rd but I think those tards screwed it up.... |
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peashooter
297 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2012 : 23:31:51
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| Come on guys! Lefties have it made. Here is your simple reason why righties don't have an advantage. Runner on first. What is your #1 goal. Get to second to take the force off and get into scoring position. What else. The catcher has to throw you out stealing. Lefties change the stolen base situation thus have a huge advantage. Guy on third. You are already in scoring position. The next base has the catcher so you are not looking to steal in any way. case closed. Take the lefty BS pick away and watch the game get fun. |
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throwitaround
36 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2012 : 23:32:28
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| Get rid of the DH in the American League also! |
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Josh Herzenberg
12 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 00:50:02
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The question here, in my opinion, is what's the purpose of MLB doing this? Is the 3rd to 1st fake that instrumental in the game that it needs to be addressed to this extent? Conversely, would eliminating this move be a major disadvantage for the RHPs who have used this as part of their arsenal? There is certainly a give and take process with regards to the overall importance of this potential move.
In regards to the comment about the double-standard, I respectfully disagree. Being a college LHP, I don't believe that there is any sort of double standard pertaining to holding base runners on, simply because of the advantage that LHPs have over RHPs in picking off to first base. I don't believe that it is extremely important- or difficult- to hold a runner at bay at third base enough to ensure that he doesn't get an astronomical secondary lead. An incident of steal of home, like Harper vs. Hamels a few days ago, is a rarity and can be prevented if a defensive team is so inclined to view this as important.
With that being said, I don't have an opinion on the matter because I don't believe it will directly effect me as a LHP. I do, however, think that MLB needs to look into all theoretical scenarios before making a move on this, whether they keep the play legal or not.
~Josh Herzenberg
joshherzenberg.blogspot.com |
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ramman999
241 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 07:33:44
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Purists will disagree, but I think it's about time (speaking purely from a former LH pitcher perspective :) )
Step off the rubber and make your move without exception....
Seriously though, does anyone fall for the double move outside of youth baseball anyway? |
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christheump
351 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 07:53:46
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quote:
Originally posted by ramman999
Purists will disagree, but I think it's about time (speaking purely from a former LH pitcher perspective :) )
Step off the rubber and make your move without exception....
Seriously though, does anyone fall for the double move outside of youth baseball anyway?
Yes it has happened in MLB I believe. |
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WestCoastGuru
148 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 08:45:17
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If they change the rules pertaining this move, then there shohld be a line drawn for left handers stepping towards first base.....just my opinion, there are numerous non-balk called on lefties all the time. The balk call/play is easily the most contraversial situation in baseball, and honestly what a left hander does to the base runner on first, really pales in comparison the 3rd to 1st play. Dont dummy down the game to make certain folks happy!!!
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peashooter
297 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 09:02:07
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| I bet you at least 1 guy in the bigs falls for the move every year. |
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jdrew
30 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 09:25:32
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Come on Peashooter! Leave us southpaws alone! HA! Being a former college LHP, I have no problems with the 3rd-1st pick for RHP. I think it gives the RHP an advantage just like a LHP has at 1B. As for the lefty move to 1B, the easiest way to neutralize it is to teach a runner to go on first movement. Two perfect throws to nail a runner stealing is not as easy as it looks. It baffles me that we don't see more of it in baseball! For a RHP holding a runner at 1B, the technique that so often gets overlooked is pitcher hold times/pattern. Make a runner WAIT!
Bottom line is leave the game alone! Next thing you know baseball will eliminate leading off so all pitchers are on equal ground...
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spike
41 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 09:50:40
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| Thanks pea for teaching the boys the famouse hold techniques!!! |
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peashooter
297 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 10:19:57
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HEHE...I love it when you tell the kids to HOLD for 5 one thousand then pick....100 miliseconds later they pick...just shows how nervous some kids are. JD as far as the first movement, it doesn't work as you get into better calibur baseball, if people are taught correctly. Too many coaches let their lefties have these huge leg kicks trying to fool the base runners. If you teach a lefty to pich like a righty in regards to leg kids (high and quick), you eliminate the first move issues because their pick will have a quick leg movement, thus eliminating the time advantage for first move. Also as a lefty you should have many different moves. 1. Step back and throw side arm 2. Leg kick and pick at 45 degree 3. direct step pick to first, then each one with varying head positions (looking home, looking at first) Thats 6 unique pick moves...As a righty you have 1. quick pivot pick 2. Step behind pick 3. my favorite...step behind, throw the ball backwards to first HAHA.
You lefties make me sick...as long as you can throw 80MPH you can pitch for 100years hahaha! |
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Steel-Will
278 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 11:12:36
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I like the ole "horn play" and it has worked in BIG, BIG situations.
And it's gotta be fun for the youngsters to see the big boys get duped with it just like they did at one point in their young baseball careers.
I say leave it alone and work on getting these mlb umps to develop a more consistent strike zone...that'd be something worth working on.
quote:
Originally posted by ramman999
Purists will disagree, but I think it's about time (speaking purely from a former LH pitcher perspective :) )
Step off the rubber and make your move without exception....
Seriously though, does anyone fall for the double move outside of youth baseball anyway?
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Edited by - Steel-Will on 05/11/2012 12:15:00 |
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jmac83
46 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 13:24:42
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The irony is, I can't remember ever seeing that move tried in a major league game. I've seen it tried an unfortunate number of times in youth league games. The commonality with the adults and kids is, the move never, ever works and almost never even draws a throw. But, the pitcher sure does think he looks cool for a moment.  |
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ChinMusic
126 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 13:59:21
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Happens all the time in MLB - and was successful at least once already this year. I believe against the NYY
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jdrew
30 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 15:17:08
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Pea, yes you are right that when the base paths get longer the first movement technique can be tough to use. I am in "youth" coaching mode as I help pitchers on a 12U team. Two perfect throws to nail a runner on shorter bases can be tough even when taught correctly. As for the LHP moves, I teach the "quick - step back" pick and work a lot on the 45 degree move using a chair and a line to the plate. I try to get the kids to keep their shoulders in line to the plate as much as possible. For the RHP, I preach quick feet and have them keep the ball in the glove longer. This helps keep them from getting long on their throw over.
Pea, enjoy the pitching talk and sorry to everyone for getting off topic. |
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Steel-Will
278 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 15:45:00
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Any REAL advantage for a righty to come set slighly open towards first?
Seems like it works somewhat at 9, 10, 11 if they can get the front shoulder closed again to pitch the ball, but what about after those ages?
quote:
Originally posted by jdrew
Pea, yes you are right that when the base paths get longer the first movement technique can be tough to use. I am in "youth" coaching mode as I help pitchers on a 12U team. Two perfect throws to nail a runner on shorter bases can be tough even when taught correctly. As for the LHP moves, I teach the "quick - step back" pick and work a lot on the 45 degree move using a chair and a line to the plate. I try to get the kids to keep their shoulders in line to the plate as much as possible. For the RHP, I preach quick feet and have them keep the ball in the glove longer. This helps keep them from getting long on their throw over.
Pea, enjoy the pitching talk and sorry to everyone for getting off topic.
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CRblues
24 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 21:17:38
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Having the right handed pitcher slightly open towards first base enables the pitcher to look at the runner without accidentally turning
his shoulders which could cause a balk. I have used it for younger
pitchers that have problems looking over towards first moving their
shoulders with the look over |
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CRblues
24 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 23:57:31
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Sorry, my previous post was off topic. Concerning the proposed rule
change it looks like a solution for a nonexistant/trivial problem. |
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HITANDRUN
436 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2012 : 07:27:39
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| I say leave the game alone. I like it the way it is. If a balk is truly a pitcher deliberately deceiving the base runner then most if not all moves are balks. We have gotten by this long with the Horn Play leave it in the game. |
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jdrew
30 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2012 : 14:26:28
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| Steel, I think CRBlues hit it on the head about being slightly open as younger kids can tend to move their shoulders when looking over. I teach our RHP's to check the runner before/after getting their sign from the catcher (coming set to a position with shoulders inline to the plate). This allows them the freedom to pick w/o coming set if a runner is not careful getting their lead. If you think about it, when a RHP is "open" to first, it will cut a fraction of their time off of the pick to first but will add to it when going to the plate because they have to get back on line to the plate. I've seen it work either way but the idea here is to have the runner cut down his lead and then have the pitcher put 100% concentration back on the batter. Hope this helps.... |
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Topic |
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New MLB Rule Proposed
