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BaseKnock
29 Posts |
 Posted - 03/27/2012 : 20:36:37
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My son played for a 12U team last year whose roster had a mix of 11U and 12U players. We are no longer associated with that program. This fall that team remained at 12U and some of the 12U players, now 13, played with the help of altered roster names. A friend of mine coaches another 12U team and they faced and lost to this “12U” team in the fall by a wide margin.
The team opened its spring season, with the 13U players, and is THUMPING the competition. I know several coaches and spoke to one and they are ticked off. They asked me how someone goes about protesting such a team.
So my question to the experienced here is what is the process and what advice do you have for this situation. I don’t have a dog in this fight but others I know do.
For the record, this team does not play in GA, so there is no need in guessing who. Thank you for your insight and suggestions.
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loveforthegame25
448 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2012 : 20:54:45
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| For some reason this post is very confusing |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2012 : 22:15:17
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| Have the next team who plays them ask for birth certificates. |
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BaseKnock
29 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2012 : 23:37:48
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quote:
Originally posted by rippit
Have the next team who plays them ask for birth certificates.
Okay, but what is the process? Do they challenge after the first pitch, after the game, before or after the tournament? Do they take it up with the ump, director (who is never actually there), etc., etc.? Do teams have to carry birth certificats and be ready to produce? I'm just trying to gather info on how this works to pass on to the coaches I know so they can be prepared and have an idea of how it goes down after the challenge. |
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jmac83
46 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2012 : 07:45:09
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| Their coaches might tell the opponent to stuff it if they ask for birth certificates, but you could alert the organizer of whatever tournament that team enters to request birth certificates before any game is played. |
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BaseKnock
29 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2012 : 08:35:19
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quote:
Originally posted by loveforthegame25
For some reason this post is very confusing
Sorry for not being clear. I'll restate. A 12U team is playing with 13U players. How should this be reported to league officials? Obviously the team needs to show birth certs but what is the recommended course of action and how does USSSA really handle these situations? |
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RACGOFAR
208 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2012 : 08:52:28
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All coaches carry their player birth certificates because just about every tourney org. requires them to. The way to go about it:
1) Get the TD to meet with you and the coach and his player. (before the game is best)
2) Ask the player his full name and birthdate.
3) Ask the coach for the player's birth certificate.
4) Compare the player's response to the certificate.
Most kids know here they were born, so you can get that off the certificate and ask them that question too.
Coaches get upset when you do this. But if they are following the rules and you have the right to ask, they have nothing to be mad about except getting caught. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2012 : 10:31:32
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quote:
Originally posted by RACGOFAR
All coaches carry their player birth certificates because just about every tourney org. requires them to. The way to go about it:
1) Get the TD to meet with you and the coach and his player. (before the game is best)
2) Ask the player his full name and birthdate.
3) Ask the coach for the player's birth certificate.
4) Compare the player's response to the certificate.
Most kids know here they were born, so you can get that off the certificate and ask them that question too.
Coaches get upset when you do this. But if they are following the rules and you have the right to ask, they have nothing to be mad about except getting caught.
To add a bit more to RAC's advice (which is spot on the appropriate way to approach this).
All coaches are supposed to be able to produce valid birth certificates if asked during any tournament. For that reason, most teams collect these from the parents at the beginning of the season and carry a "team" book around with BC's, copies of insurance cards, etc. If you or your friend's team aren't doing this you should start immediately.
On that note, your friend needs to have his "book" with him when they meet and be prepared to produce valid BC's for each player on his roster. It's likely that the opposing coach will turn the tables on your buddy.
If the coach/team in question cannot produce valid birth certificates prior to the start of the tourney, then I'd put it on the TD to DQ any players that can't be confirmed. If it means that the team has to forfeit, so be it.
Not sure what organization your friend's team is playing under, but USSSA is quite clear on the topic in Rule 3.00 thru 3.12. If USSSA, then he likely needs to take it up with the State Director by challenging the validity of the team's online roster per rule 3.06F. Intentional OR unintentional listing of incorrect birth dates on the online roster is grounds for team manager suspension.
Regardless of organization, if he requests the pre-tournament or pre-game meeting, he needs to be prepared to pay any protest fee (which is refundable if the protest is upheld). Just thinking ahead.
Frankly, I hope he does challenge this. A team doing this intentionally by a manager and parents is completely unacceptable and anyone doing this should be called out. |
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billbclk
164 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2012 : 11:19:01
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| Play the game, play as well as you can. Hopefully beat them anyway. |
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BaseKnock
29 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2012 : 13:35:13
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RACGOFAR & in_the_know
Thank you for your input. That is exactly the kind of information I needed. |
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bkball
173 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2012 : 08:55:06
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quote:
Originally posted by billbclk
Play the game, play as well as you can. Hopefully beat them anyway.
What? Play the game, no, if they are cheating and you are 100% sure, call them out on it. Don't risk someone getting hurt by letting them cheat. Let us know what happens. |
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Topic |
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Advice for dealing with a false roster
