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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
 Posted - 07/30/2011 : 12:44:32
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I am curious as to, in the last 5 years how many kids that went pro from GA ONLY picked up baseball from high school? For that matter started playing at 12u and made the PROS. To my knowledge there would be none. Please correct me if I'm wrong???
Honestly, I'm soooooo tired of hearing posters say "the kids playing well at 11u, 12u and 13u won't be that good of players in the future" and that all the great players are still to come. I'm sorry all the kids that are "great" players now are defianantly laying the foundation for being great players in the future provided they keep playing ball with the same discipline, hard work and commitment they have now. To be one of the best pitchers, hitters or player still requires A LOT of hard work and MANY, MANY REPS. IMHO it takes a long time to get great technique at any of these postitions. I will agree the adjustment curve changes for the kids that get real big and strong for there age but you still have to have good technique... I really wonder what these posters REALLY mean when they make these kind of comments??????
Not that any of these kids will go pro but it seems to me you just don't pick up the ball one day and "GO PRO"! If so WHO are these players??? Enlighten me please.... |
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M. Bare
26 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2011 : 17:52:08
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| Having seen some of the posts you are referring to I have always taken it as you can't judge what an 11, 12, 13 year old does now because it's 11, 12, 13 year old baseball (or any other sport for that matter). These kids should still be learning the sport and making adjustments. And growth is huge, you have "boys" who are men at 13 and you have boys who haven't even started puberty yet, you can't compare the two. It is like that in every youth sport, those who "develop" earlier tend to be quicker, taller, stronger than those who do not but when the playing field evens out as everyone gets older, that's when it counts. It's the players who bring it at 16, 17, 18 who end up playing at the higher levels. Basically enjoy the younger ages and don't take it too seriously there is still lots of baseball to be played, that's what I take away from those posts. |
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jacjacatk
154 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2011 : 18:40:43
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| I'm not sure many players pick up baseball for the first time as late as HS. The point most people are trying to make about 11/12/13 year olds, is that being a stud at 12 is no guarantee of being a stud at 16 or 18 or 20. Puberty and the big field changes everything, and while the guys playing high level ball at early ages may have a skill/reps advantage, the 11 year old AA scrub player who shows up at 14 or 15 at 6'2" for his HS JV tryouts will have his own advantages. |
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dmb350
135 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2011 : 19:10:38
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| Probably the one thing that most people don't factor into the going "Pro" is the being in the right place at the right time and getting the job done in front of the right people. Add that to being an incredibly talented player that has all the tools, stays healthy enough to keep peforming and then maybe you get your shot. |
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BREAMKING
323 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2011 : 19:26:23
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| I would say if you pick up ball first time in 9th grade you can probably still go "semi pro" at least that is what my buddy on facebook says. lol... |
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J.Foley
9 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2011 : 10:34:35
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| I do believe the better players now do have a great opportunity to be those types of players in the future. However they are the best players now who's family's have the financial resources to pursue travel baseball, not necessarily the best players. There will be alot of kids who start sports in middle school were there schools offer scholarships to less fortunate family's so that these children have the opportunity to participate in sports as well. Some of these kids will be the best athletes at there schools despite never playing sports. I would encourage everyone to help their sons develop there talents best they can and peruse every opportunity that presents it's self. However it's no guarantee. Mike Vick was drafted to MLB despite stopping playing baseball in 8th grade. Good luck to all !!!!!! |
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neverquit
128 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2011 : 10:37:27
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| One of our coaches is just so concrened about the age 13. They feel that if the foundation is not there by 13 you can forget getting to the college level. |
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oldmanmj
191 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2011 : 17:40:00
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Gwinnett...you must not follow travel or HS ball that much. Not one of the players in GA drafted in the last 3 years started playing in HS. They all played Travel ball somewhere. Over 70% of them played for a team at ECB. Some played for Atlanta Blue Jays, Home Plate, and others. There isn't a high school team that has developed a player that got drafted that wasn't already on someones radar earlier that HS. There are some great HS coaches out there, but 98% of the HS coaches don't know to improve a player to get to the next level nor do they have the time.
HS coaches get a plethora of REC players mixed in with a couple of Travel Ball players. IS there always an exception that arises, yes, but there has to be a full moon, a dove lands on your back deck and the IRS sends you a refund for $10,000 for a mistake they made and all the interest they owe you....HA HA! |
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dmb350
135 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2011 : 21:20:36
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I'm with oldmanmj on this one. Maybe that 1 in a million kid that comes along starts late in the game and has a shot but the rest, no way. Take ANY legit Majors travel ball player from 14U and up that has been playing high level travel for a few years and put him on the field with the average HS player coming from rec ball and there is a HUGE difference in every category from just basic skills to baseball IQ.
Hers the bottom line, travel baseball at the higher levels takes the best of the best and plays them against each other trying to win. In doing so they are conditioned and trained to perform at those levels. Any player not involved in that will be at a giant disadvantage and it will be magnified and then exploited by good teams on the field. I'm sorry but this isn't even an issue that need to be discussed. There just is no comparison.
Regarding the age 13 stuff. That's a joke. I've seen kids that were mediocre players at 13 then hit puberty and were fantastic at 14. Kids can learn quickly and if you think a 13 yo is going to listen and apply everything you think is needed for his "foundation" to help him go "pro" then you haven't been around many 13 yo boys. They are the most frustrating of all age groups. Hormones, attitude, mood swings, constant eating and half the time you have to drag them out of the bed just to get them to the field. Tell your coach to relax before he has a stroke. |
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bbmom2
119 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2011 : 22:55:53
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quote:
Originally posted by dmb350
I'm with oldmanmj on this one. Maybe that 1 in a million kid that comes along starts late in the game and has a shot but the rest, no way. Take ANY legit Majors travel ball player from 14U and up that has been playing high level travel for a few years and put him on the field with the average HS player coming from rec ball and there is a HUGE difference in every category from just basic skills to baseball IQ.
Hers the bottom line, travel baseball at the higher levels takes the best of the best and plays them against each other trying to win. In doing so they are conditioned and trained to perform at those levels. Any player not involved in that will be at a giant disadvantage and it will be magnified and then exploited by good teams on the field. I'm sorry but this isn't even an issue that need to be discussed. There just is no comparison.
Regarding the age 13 stuff. That's a joke. I've seen kids that were mediocre players at 13 then hit puberty and were fantastic at 14. Kids can learn quickly and if you think a 13 yo is going to listen and apply everything you think is needed for his "foundation" to help him go "pro" then you haven't been around many 13 yo boys. They are the most frustrating of all age groups. Hormones, attitude, mood swings, constant eating and half the time you have to drag them out of the bed just to get them to the field. Tell your coach to relax before he has a stroke.
Like - just described my 13 year old...  |
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wareagle
324 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2011 : 09:35:54
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The cases are very rare but there are a few. I wont say any names, but at the high school where I graduated, there was a kid drafted that was not even described as one of the better players on the team. He had not played years of baseball, but was simply a tremendous athlete. The scouts did not see a polished player, but the saw potential. He is an MLB outfielder today and if I remember right his last contract was 15 million plus for 3 years. I have also heard these stories from other sports as well.
These players are the exception, Most kids need to work thier tails off starting by 11 or 12 just to get a partial scholarship at a tiny school somewhere. |
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Houndfan
42 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 14:53:15
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| Interesting topic and Ill offer what I think... I work as a scout for a major league organization as well as participate as a travel dad and coach. I have not had the opportunity to participate in draft planning until this year so my sample is small. However, we found that of players drafted there was a greater percentage that played some sort of travel ball in their development. The start time varied but 10 - 12 was a very common age. Your top prospects were advanced travel players and we also considered some who were not. The real indicator was games played. We found through some analysis of our high school prospects that more games did not improve draft position. In fact, of our class our HS players averaged about 70 games per year combined high school, travel, legion, etc. Those that had lower game totals spent more time in "camps" and invite situations working on baseball skills not athletic skills what they missed in game situations they picked up with additional coaching and reps. We passed on one kid that was a top prospect that played 120 games in his junior year. While he graded well, there was a concern with burnout. We also found that we drafted about 50/50 sport specific kids from HS. That is kids that only play baseball. As our crosschecker said baseball is baseball... if they have the athletic ability we will see that in games at any level. Do they have baseball ability is the question.... |
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jongamefan
218 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 15:10:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Houndfan
Interesting topic and Ill offer what I think... I work as a scout for a major league organization as well as participate as a travel dad and coach. I have not had the opportunity to participate in draft planning until this year so my sample is small. However, we found that of players drafted there was a greater percentage that played some sort of travel ball in their development. The start time varied but 10 - 12 was a very common age. Your top prospects were advanced travel players and we also considered some who were not. The real indicator was games played. We found through some analysis of our high school prospects that more games did not improve draft position. In fact, of our class our HS players averaged about 70 games per year combined high school, travel, legion, etc. Those that had lower game totals spent more time in "camps" and invite situations working on baseball skills not athletic skills what they missed in game situations they picked up with additional coaching and reps. We passed on one kid that was a top prospect that played 120 games in his junior year. While he graded well, there was a concern with burnout. We also found that we drafted about 50/50 sport specific kids from HS. That is kids that only play baseball. As our crosschecker said baseball is baseball... if they have the athletic ability we will see that in games at any level. Do they have baseball ability is the question....
HOUND: excellent insightful post based on your experience
Thank You for sharing
And who are the Hounds (: |
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Strike 2
61 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 15:29:32
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| Good info Houndfan. Thanks for posting. |
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 15:58:54
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Houndfan, thanks for the great factual information. Its very enlightning to hear from someone like yourself.
quote:
Originally posted by Houndfan
Interesting topic and Ill offer what I think... I work as a scout for a major league organization as well as participate as a travel dad and coach. I have not had the opportunity to participate in draft planning until this year so my sample is small. However, we found that of players drafted there was a greater percentage that played some sort of travel ball in their development. The start time varied but 10 - 12 was a very common age. Your top prospects were advanced travel players and we also considered some who were not. The real indicator was games played. We found through some analysis of our high school prospects that more games did not improve draft position. In fact, of our class our HS players averaged about 70 games per year combined high school, travel, legion, etc. Those that had lower game totals spent more time in "camps" and invite situations working on baseball skills not athletic skills what they missed in game situations they picked up with additional coaching and reps. We passed on one kid that was a top prospect that played 120 games in his junior year. While he graded well, there was a concern with burnout. We also found that we drafted about 50/50 sport specific kids from HS. That is kids that only play baseball. As our crosschecker said baseball is baseball... if they have the athletic ability we will see that in games at any level. Do they have baseball ability is the question....
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Houndfan
42 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 16:03:43
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| Hounds are for bassethounds! I love a lazy sunday afternoon dog! |
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Houndfan
42 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 16:21:22
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To add... I was involved with a player a few years ago in LA. I was birdogging looking for prospects to make a name for myself. When I showed up for a game there were a few regional guys from other clubs there and 1 or 2 others like me. I thought we were all there to look at one specific player. He was a moderate grade kid that projected to AA ball. Had some speed and good instincts that could have been developed. Long story short... I was dead wrong. They were there to see a kid that was playing in something like his 5-6 game EVER. Tall, rangy, fast outfielder who covered as much ground as I have ever seen. In BP he hit ball after ball a mile. His hands were incredible and his swing was all arms but he was short and compact and just exploded with no body action at all. Ran well etc. He never made it, signed a huge deal and within a few weeks was arrested for some drug related activity and now is serving a huge sentence. Point is those kids exist and can advance if they catch the right guy who will fight for them with their regional guy or xchecker. Usually, they will be draft and follow kids that will get some extended time in JuCo or with a college that has a coach that coach specifically what the organization needs. I don't buy any of the A/AA/AAA/Major hype at all. For the 10 - 14 kids athleticism will help them succeed but what happens when they need to make a baseball play. What do you do when you need that great kid to drop a bunt in a situation that calls for it and he doesnt understand?
Ive watched some great major teams play this summer at 10U and there is a big difference between kids that are playing out of their athletic ability and those that are coached well. The kids that have access to good coaching regardless of the level will be the ones that will have greater opportunity future forward. I saw well coached 10A/AA/AAA teams with a couple of kids that I thought had a good foundation and would be interesting to see in a few years should they stick with it. And I saw major "studs" that I am sure will never get a look. We have to remember that they are kids and the chances of any pro ball are so small that they need a million things to go right for them to get anywhere. But if we teach them to love the game and respect it they will have skills that will help them forever. What other game can you dad's think of that you can play with your son, grandson, etc your entire life? We can always grab a whiffle ball and go to the backyard and be kids again. Even those of us living through our boys. I would not worry too much about getting paid to play too much....
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 17:17:10
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| A scholarship to a free education would be great! And would save me a lot of money...lol |
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Critical Mass
277 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 20:18:17
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| There is no full ride in baseball, better combine an academic scholarship with baseball to get that...thats why it pays to be smart and athletic. |
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first2third
3 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2011 : 13:40:15
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| Gwinnetto-I suggest ypu get a shoe box and put the 1k to 3k you would spend in travel baseball and lessons in it evey season or in a 401K and by senior year you have a nice scholarship. |
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ChinMusic
126 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2011 : 15:35:17
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quote:
Originally posted by first2third
Gwinnetto-I suggest ypu get a shoe box and put the 1k to 3k you would spend in travel baseball and lessons in it evey season or in a 401K and by senior year you have a nice scholarship.
Prolly good advice for many folks
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Edited by - ChinMusic on 08/04/2011 20:41:37 |
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2011 : 16:02:13
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First2thirdo, maybe we can stay home and not have great family fun at the ballpark or the softball park or at the local park. Maybe we can not go on any travel tournaments every weekend or great trips together as a family for ball season? Maybe we can skip the great instruction my kids have grown to love with the great instructors who teach them? Maybe we can forget about all the wonderful familys, coachs and players we see every weekend because we will be saving our money in a "shoe box"? Maybe as a ball playing family we can just stay home every weekend and I'll save all my money in a "shoe box"......
Great suggestion I'm going to go get a shoe box right now!
BTW, no problem paying if we don't keep playing any sport...
Thanks for the GREAT advice..
quote:
Originally posted by first2third
Gwinnetto-I suggest ypu get a shoe box and put the 1k to 3k you would spend in travel baseball and lessons in it evey season or in a 401K and by senior year you have a nice scholarship.
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Edited by - Gwinnett on 08/04/2011 20:41:47 |
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reallycoach
64 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2011 : 09:42:50
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Well contrary to full ride comment, there are full rides in baseball in D1 schools. Not many below that as they focus on football and basketball to drive funding.
But putting all that money is a shoe box is a great idea if you want to live like a hermit and have no memories of the fantastic days of outdoor fun with family and friends watching some of the best competition in sports.
I think the life lessons are just as important of an investment as a shoebox full of cash and will build lasting memories that bond father and son, brothers and mothers together.
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2011 : 13:53:07
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What? No free rides? Then why am I letting my son have all this fun? I guess he better switch to football. FYI: those of you who think $1,000 to $3,000 is a lot for travel ball when many of our kids will never go past HS, try ice hockey. The local travel hockey coach is trying to convince us to do travel hockey. At $16,000 a year, that would be close to $100,000 by the time he finished high school. Then he could get lucky and get a partial scholarship.
I will take my chances with baseball. Worst case, we end up with some good memories. |
Edited by - DecaturDad on 08/05/2011 14:28:30 |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2011 : 15:58:52
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quote:
Originally posted by reallycoach
Well contrary to full ride comment, there are full rides in baseball in D1 schools. Not many below that as they focus on football and basketball to drive funding.
But putting all that money is a shoe box is a great idea if you want to live like a hermit and have no memories of the fantastic days of outdoor fun with family and friends watching some of the best competition in sports.
I think the life lessons are just as important of an investment as a shoebox full of cash and will build lasting memories that bond father and son, brothers and mothers together.
There are, but not many. D1 schools have 11.7 scholarships to dole out. Minimum 35 man roster. Minimum 25% scholarship if one is offered. That's a lot of guys to divide the money amongst. Maybe a top notch pitcher will get a full ride, not much else. |
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oldmanmj
191 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2011 : 18:20:33
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| Regarding full rides in D-1, correct, you have got to be a super stud to get 100%, usually they try and get you athletic combined with academic/Pell grants etc. |
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Going "PRO"
