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With-a-stick
33 Posts |
 Posted - 08/01/2011 : 10:27:53
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justletemplay and bbmom2 - my guess is these two events were planned and executed like this every year. The two mentioned events would be the examples of what can be done when open tryouts are held.
I've seen across the board improvements at tryouts these past two weeks and some just may come from all the positive contributors on this forum. I know parents are reading this from the comments at every event we've attended. If just a little of this improvement can be attributed to all of the constructive discussion a good thing has been done.
This brings me to a point where I think Stan Lewis should get a big thank you for bringing this forum to the community and allowing it to be a positive force in Georgia travel baseball. One that is felt outside of it's original boundries of North West Georgia. A big thank you Stan from this parent. |
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justletemplay
46 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2011 : 15:12:20
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| DITTO. Thanks Stan. I've seen the quality of the workouts escalate in the last 2 weeks. Much better than years past. |
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justletemplay
46 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2011 : 23:16:53
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3 weeks later.............
My son made the team of the best assessments we've been to. They called him back, we were on vacation the next weekend, but we were back for a scrimmage game the following week, and he made the team! Playing a lite fall schedule, around other sports, Can't wait for February Frost. He's going to have a lot of fun.
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ramman999
241 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2011 : 09:28:25
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| For those that made/ did not make the teams you tried out for- was feedback provided to you on the things your son needs to work on? |
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klhmlh
42 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2011 : 15:08:20
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quote:
Originally posted by ramman999
For those that made/ did not make the teams you tried out for- was feedback provided to you on the things your son needs to work on?
My son tried out for 2 teams. Got an offer from the 2nd with a lot of postive feedback, which would be expected.
The 1st team we never heard anything. I sent an email asking for feedback but never got anything back. Next week there was a posting for private workouts so I sent another email and what I got back was "I apologize for not responding. However, I won't get into answering these questions for every player we don't invite to play with us. Every 16U player has to get better at all phases of their game."
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justletemplay
46 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2011 : 09:07:49
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| Yes, same here. Positive feedback from the teams interested in my son. Not one word from the "mega tryouts". I don't care if you pick my son, I don't care how he compares to the kids your team believes are your studs, but for 75$-175$ "assesment", "clinic" there should be a 20-80 scale or the courtesy of a reply to my personal request. |
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jacjacatk
154 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2011 : 12:38:27
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We did 6 tryouts, two of which were for organizations with multiple teams. Got two offers, and 1 call from a team which did offer feedback to tell us why they didn't have a spot. The other 3 made no attempt to contact us, including the two multi-team organizations even after follow-up inquiries.
Perhaps not surprisingly, the 3 teams that followed up had much better run tryouts, and while a couple of the teams from the multi-team organizations are certainly playing at a higher level I'd be hesitant to get involved with any team that couldn't manage something as simple as an efficient tryout and follow-up. |
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ramman999
241 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2011 : 13:27:12
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See, that to me is just criminal. I think it is important to provide this information - sometimes it's obvious, but it will eliminate confusion later on.
We tried something a little different this year for 11u - we had the assistant coaches conduct the tryout, while the head coach and 2 independent parties not affiliated with the program did the player evaluations - one is a scout for a pro organization and the other is a coach for an area showcase program.
All in all it was very productive and the feedback was very much appreciated.
In the past the program has always provided constructive criticism regardless of outcome (making or not making team) but this year we provided their individual rankings amongst their peer group as well as constructive feedback - more so to ensure that players that did not make it knew why, and the players that did make it had feedback for areas for improvement.
Based on the feedback I have heard so far, this information was greatly appreciated. |
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teddy41
421 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2011 : 14:31:19
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| part of the problem with giving feedback is parents then want to argue about it. if you tell them lack of arm strenth they say he has plenty..not good hitting opp field..argue that |
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jacjacatk
154 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2011 : 21:20:50
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quote:
Originally posted by teddy41
part of the problem with giving feedback is parents then want to argue about it. if you tell them lack of arm strenth they say he has plenty..not good hitting opp field..argue that
If you're not capable of handling this part of being a coach diplomatically, I'd submit that you're probably not prepared to handle the rest of the people-problems that will come with running a travel ball team. |
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barehandit
19 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2011 : 21:56:45
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| Feedback on a 20-80 scale isn't too arguable, if every kid gets an evaluation at each assessment. It's a standard to compare from season to season and workout to workout, team to team. Not too many reasons for a kid to be 40 one place and next place 60, or just comparing "mega" tryouts year to year. |
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Triple
26 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2011 : 09:12:52
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quote:
Originally posted by jacjacatk
quote:
Originally posted by teddy41
part of the problem with giving feedback is parents then want to argue about it. if you tell them lack of arm strenth they say he has plenty..not good hitting opp field..argue that
If you're not capable of handling this part of being a coach diplomatically, I'd submit that you're probably not prepared to handle the rest of the people-problems that will come with running a travel ball team.
Got to agree with jacjacatk here. Went to the big one at aviation. Even though they say everyone has to try out from year to year, the majority of last years players came 30 minutes later and were in one group together. Then they say they are going to give feedback to everyone. Nothing. Not even after a phone call. Feedback is important. It really helps the kids. Lets them know what a team was looking for. Granted, every team has different needs, but it lets them know. Only had that happen here. Everywhere else gave good feedback. |
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justletemplay
46 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2011 : 18:12:42
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The only way we return to the driver's seat is thru the wallet. Make it economics 101. That is true in many industries. Fundraising is only successful if adults of these kids continue to participate in these paid for "assessments" and then we don't get "assessments" for our kid, from your "mega" coaches. The best way to fight that is with our wallets.........next season do not participate if it is a paid for "tryout" because it really isn't a tryout if 85 kids are trying out for 1-6,or even 14, spots on a roster, for one team.
We were at one "mega" tryout and a parent from the forum asked "you need another team" and the head guy said "there isn't enough talent here for two teams" SERIOUSLY???? "we have to have our coaching in place so we don't get too big" What that translates to for parents was "our best chance of having a team that can win a lot is to take the best 12,13,14,15" (depends on age group) any team below the top means less winning, means we can't risk being associated with because next season there won't be 100 kids x 85$ x 20 tryouts paying for a chance for one of our 1-6 or 14 spots. Run your "mega" program without that "tryout" $ in the budget next season. It would equate to our personal house being under employed, or unemployed. Could we survive? possibly, but many families, and economies, have had the scenario these past few years and have recognized a need for "assessments" in our own economies.
If their budget is only the 1500$-2500$/pp for season play, then I believe they might "need" to have 2 or 3 teams per age group to make up for the $ not generated by the paid for tryouts. I'll bet the talent pool will look surprisingly better. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2011 : 20:58:14
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Justletemplay, if they were money hungry, they would start that other team. Say there are 60 kids who come out and don't make the team (I think that's high, but), that is $5100. If they formed another team, that would be around $39,000 towards the program. How does it benefit them financially to draw kids to tryout and not make the team than to form another team just for the money? I personally think they want to keep the integrity of the program over being a money making machine.
I think it is more honorable to have a quality program with quality players than to load up with teams that are of lesser quality just to pull in the fees. And when I say program, I do mean program, not just a name with a bunch of teams that anyone can be a part of. That's the way I see it. |
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justletemplay
46 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2011 : 23:25:51
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I don't believe it is money hungry at all. It's business smart, on the part of the places we go and pay to try out. I didn't intend to imply (sorry if i did) that it was money hungry or your point would be valid. Have tryouts, and the 3 teams too would be great. Maybe not 3 of the winningest teams at Major, but 3 sets of boys who could be part of something big.
I believe "assessments" are a way to generate an enormous amount of money without the responsibility of an additional team and the workload/demand of another team. We have NO idea the time commitment to a team, except from a parent angle. It must be enormous. In the existing scenario kids don't get the chance to train/develop with a program that the parents see as an option for little Johnny. Instead, come back next year, after you have played somewhere else, work hard, improve and we'll take another look. If our kids had left the "assessment" with a 20-80 score and came back next year and gets assessed again then the score should reflect better, worse, same. Same for the kids who :made the cut "how is their 20-80 scale?" If no improvement from a kid who is "in" then they go back to AAA or AA, look at Heyward.....he's fighting Constanza for playing time.
How about this, cut fewer kids and put them 'in the program" Maybe they start at AA, AAA, Major/Elite. If the parents don't agree to the assessed placement then the parents make the
decision to move along. Then it boils down to does a family want to be part of a good training program or only part of the highest caliber team of a training program? What's wrong with having a team, hopefully winning/competitive (but not always), AA,AAA level, or 2 AAA and an major/Elite within an organization? Every kid has potential, but they aren't getting a chance to play where the families think the best training comes from, or from the better organizations out there. Only the "BEST" kids are getting that chance. How about develop the kids? or some more of the kids at least so they can be chasing the kids ahead of them. More of a farm system approach.
There isn't a perfect solution, but 85$ to be told "there isn't enough talent here for 2 teams" means there isn't enough talent for 2 winning teams at the highest level so the our organization will attract even better talent next year and larger tryouts.
If no money comes to the organization from "assessments" then economics says to generate cash flow the money will come from another portal. Maybe that will be another team of kids that could be educated,worked, instructed, groomed at the level below. Being on an Elite team with lots of wins only helps the club reputation, and the 13 kids on the team. That's great.
Our kids are not getting "assessed" they are getting the once over to see if our kid can contribute to the programs success. Instead of for 85$ come get assessed we'll place your kid, developmentally where they will have the most successes and good training.
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2011 : 11:11:08
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| Just, I theory, that may be OK. However, the bigger the program gets, the more diluted the coaching, the harder it is to keep the whole program approach. There are always tradeoffs. |
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Bigwhitevan
67 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2011 : 11:37:06
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| Well the way I see it. Being in the travel arena for over a year now only. I see many managers of talent. Lots of coaches can look like great coaches of a successful program with the top 12 players they can pull from a talent pool that includes parents who know their child is good. What they can't do is bring the talent of baseball out of kids that are average. That is why, again IMHO, why there is always a top team and no lower teams. Baseball is part talent but mostly skills taught. That is one reason why so many kids can play and under good teaching reach beyond what they thought was possible. I realize there is good intstruction at these big places, but the skills and footwork can be taught anywhere by good teachers. I do also think that the calls to kids who don't make the cut is a fault of the team and organization being of the mindset that it is time to close ranks and move forward with this team. Those kids are not our concern, someone else will pick them up and help them achieve better skills. Cough cough lazy really. What they fail to realize is that if they inform the kids on what to improve, they might be ahead of a current player next year. Thus improving the team with little more than a release of the grade they wrote down anyway. |
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bestplayinbaseball
67 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2011 : 21:21:24
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| I second that notion! |
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dmb350
135 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2011 : 11:10:32
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Ok, here's the sad fact. It's money. That's it, just money. Teams that are successful pull better players and can ask for more money. Programs that are successful can do the same thing and of course charge more money. Almost no teams really develope players. I can give you a few examples I know of personally that do develope players (643, Astros, JCS, NBS) but most are just baseball teams. You get some advice and maybe you pick up a thing or 2 but true development doesn't happen.
As a parent if you want your average player to really be better, money. Private instruction, lessons, extra practice (time is money), cage rental, attending multiple tryouts that aren't free, all contribute to him climbing the ladder to better teams. Better teams cost more whether it's the team it's self or the level they play at (big out of state tourneys push costs up quickly). That's usually the case especially as they get older. Astros, Titans, 643, Team GA, Road Runners, take your pick. All expensive but if your player is on these teams or playing against these teams and being successful then he gets looked at first and it's money that got you there, at least for the "average" player. |
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prestont
197 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2011 : 12:49:24
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dmb350 - your probably spot on about a number of items (time, reps, instruction) but did want to atleast chime in that there are coaches that really do work to help develop the kids. No arguements about time investment - gotta do it to excell and work at the game. Heck, but isn't that the fun part?? I luv the trips to/from practice & field with my son and the chance to help him get better.
Did want to comment that there really are folks out there who want to develop kids. We've been fortunate and can honestly tell ya that my son is a much better player today that he was a couple years ago because of the efforts of his coaches. |
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dmb350
135 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2011 : 15:57:26
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| I agree, there are always exceptions but the post above mine was referencing the average player getting the "development" needed from the team to get substantially better. My point was if you want next level stuff, it's gonna cost you. No different than school. You want your kid to excel in Math, you hire a great math tutor because most teachers (just like coaches) can't or won't take the extra time or give the effort. |
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bbmom2
119 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2012 : 19:37:08
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| It's the start of try out season. Lots of coaches starting to plan their tryouts. Good notes here for parents and coaches. |
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peashooter
297 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2012 : 23:53:19
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| My parents are already freaking out about finding a good coach. One tryout with a pro coach was a waste. He didn't even watch the kids pitch. |
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BaseballMom6
233 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2012 : 12:42:39
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| peashooter - are you not coaching next year? |
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peashooter
297 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2012 : 17:17:26
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| nope, I am moving on to coach 10u travel Softball. My son, dosen't like baseball and I promised myself I would not force it upon him. It is time I spend some time with my daughter as she loves the sport. |
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Note to coaches - please-
