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Hiredgun
44 Posts |
 Posted - 05/24/2011 : 07:05:46
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This happened during one of our games this past weekend.
Bases loaded and no outs. Batter hits a ball towards the second baseman. The runner going from first to second is hit by the ball. The umpire in the field calls dead ball. All is well at this point in time. Then he says the batter is awarded first base and that the runner that was on second can proceed to third base and the runner on third base can score.
I hate to say it but I go ballistic and tell the umpire that the runner that got hit is out for sure and that the batter is awarded first base but....the runners on second and third must return to their original bases. He says no and proceeds to let the run score.
What is the correct call? |
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UGA12
29 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 08:58:05
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| I'm sure ChristheUmp will chime in and let us know the correct call, but I believe that the runner that was hit by the live ball is out and the play is still live so if the runner going to first is not thrown out then he stays and the other runners can advance at their own will. |
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Mets69
70 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 09:06:03
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From the official rules from Section 2.00 - Definition of Terms ...
Interference
a)Offensive interference is an acty by the team at bat which interferes with, obstructs, impedes, hinders or confuses any fielder attempting to make a play. If the umpire declares the batter, batter-runner, or a runner out for interference, all other runners shall return to the last base that was in the judgement of the umpire, legally touched at the time of the interference, unless otherwise provided by these rules.
In the event that the batter-runner has not reached first base, all runners shall return to the base last occupied at the time of the pitch.
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Seems pretty clear to me. You called it correctly Hiredgun!
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christheump
351 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 09:32:04
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The ball is dead. The only time they can advance is if they were forced to advance. Sounds like wrong call.
Wrong rule cited...This is the correct citation: 7.08(f)
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Edited by - christheump on 05/24/2011 09:42:45 |
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Hillio
123 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 10:09:57
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I've seen plenty of arguments before about plays involving a runner being hit by a batted ball. One that comes to mind is a runner standing on 3rd base was struck by a batted ball, and the ump called him out. Blue made the right call, but the opposing coach went ballistic, and argued that the runner wasn't out because he was touching the base. A lot of people believe this is the rule, but in reality a runner in fair territory that is struck by a batted ball is ALWAYS out, with just a couple of exceptions. I know that situation is different than the one Hiredgun was describing, but both instances are covered by the same couple of paragraphs in the rule book. Here are the rule(s) referenced by christheump:
7.08 Any runner is out when:
f) He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an infielder. The ball is dead and no runner may score, nor runners advance, except runners forced to advance. EXCEPTION: If a runner is touching his base when touched by an Infield Fly, he is not out, although the batter is out;
If two runners are touched by the same fair ball, only the first one is out because the ball is instantly dead
If runner is touched by an Infield Fly when he is not touching his base, both runner and batter are out.
AND
7.09 It is interference by a batter or a runner when:
m) A fair ball touches him on fair territory before touching a fielder. If a fair ball goes through, or by, an infielder, and touches a runner immediately back of him, or touches the runner after having been deflected by a fielder, the umpire shall not declare the runner out for being touched by a batted ball. In making such decision the umpire must be convinced that the ball passed through, or by, the fielder, and that no other infielder had the chance to make a play on the ball. If, in the judgment of the umpire, the runner deliberately and intentionally kicks such a batted ball on which the infielder has missed a play, then the runner shall be called out for interference."
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So, a runner in fair territory struck by a batted ball is always out except when:
1) The fielder had a chance to field the ball, but misses the ball altogether (Doesn't apply to pitchers)
2) The ball was deflected by an infielder (This one includes the pitcher)
3) He was touching base and was hit by a batted ball where the infield fly rule is in effect.
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christheump
351 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 11:55:52
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| Mostly correct Hillio, on your #1, if the runner "in the opinion of the umpire intentionally kicks a ball" Runner is out. |
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Hillio
123 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 12:36:42
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quote:
Originally posted by christheump
Mostly correct Hillio, on your #1, if the runner "in the opinion of the umpire intentionally kicks a ball" Runner is out.
Yeah, I guess I left that part out. |
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cboycoach
7 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 15:58:41
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Hillio-
You are correct in the application of this rule that you cited, but the fielder doesnt necessarily have to "blow" fielding the ball for the runner to not be out.
There have been many times where I have seen the infielders playing in late in the game and the ball get hit past the fielder, maybe to his right or left, and hit the runner who was obviously running behind the fielders. You want to see a coach go ballistic, try telling a Division 1 coach that was already playing in with the game on the line that the runner is not out and to keep playing... not a good situation, but always entertaining!!!
...man I love this game
Oh and suprise, suprise... the ump in the game cited here definitely got the call wrong. |
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loveforthegame25
448 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 17:38:06
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| Ok to piggy back on this topic. infield up, ball hit to first basemen, he makes a play on it but misses it, not an error, just misses it, it hits the runner going to second. Safe or out? |
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jacjacatk
154 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 19:07:32
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| Safe. A runner must be "touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an infielder" in order to be out. I haven't checked to confirm, but I believe the ball is live in this case (it's dead if the player is out). |
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jacjacatk
154 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 19:09:59
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| Also, I'm not sure I'd count on this call being made correctly at the youth level. I've seen it blown twice in the last two years. |
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loveforthegame25
448 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 21:28:00
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| Sweeet, I just won a bet with my wife,Thanks Jac I owe you one |
Edited by - loveforthegame25 on 05/24/2011 22:29:48 |
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Hillio
123 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2011 : 10:28:40
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quote:
Originally posted by cboycoach
Hillio-
You are correct in the application of this rule that you cited, but the fielder doesnt necessarily have to "blow" fielding the ball for the runner to not be out.
There have been many times where I have seen the infielders playing in late in the game and the ball get hit past the fielder, maybe to his right or left, and hit the runner who was obviously running behind the fielders. You want to see a coach go ballistic, try telling a Division 1 coach that was already playing in with the game on the line that the runner is not out and to keep playing... not a good situation, but always entertaining!!!
...man I love this game
Oh and suprise, suprise... the ump in the game cited here definitely got the call wrong.
Yeah I guess when the infielders are playing in to keep a run from scoring, and there is a runner on 1st or 2nd, it would be easy for a routine grounder to get through and hit a runner. I bet 90% of youth umpires would miss that call. |
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itsaboutbb
164 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2011 : 16:29:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Hillio
quote:
Originally posted by cboycoach
Hillio-
You are correct in the application of this rule that you cited, but the fielder doesnt necessarily have to "blow" fielding the ball for the runner to not be out.
There have been many times where I have seen the infielders playing in late in the game and the ball get hit past the fielder, maybe to his right or left, and hit the runner who was obviously running behind the fielders. You want to see a coach go ballistic, try telling a Division 1 coach that was already playing in with the game on the line that the runner is not out and to keep playing... not a good situation, but always entertaining!!!
...man I love this game
Oh and suprise, suprise... the ump in the game cited here definitely got the call wrong.
Yeah I guess when the infielders are playing in to keep a run from scoring, and there is a runner on 1st or 2nd, it would be easy for a routine grounder to get through and hit a runner. I bet 90% of youth umpires would miss that call.
Well We need to keep a copy of this one in the bag because it happens more often then you think |
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What is the correct call ?????
