| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Gwinnett
791 Posts |
 Posted - 04/19/2011 : 02:11:45
|
Saw this happen this weekend. Batter hit a super high pop up in the infield. As soon as it was hit the second baseman started calling it. Well, it ended up falling straight down to the 1st baseman. The second basemen had plenty of time to get to the ball. The 1st baseman never really moved and the ball was coming down right to him. The second baseman kept calling the ball all the way right up to the 1st basemen, which was about 2-3 feet from the 1st base bag. The 1st basemen never said anything and finally moved out of the way and the 2nd baseman missed it. The second basemen called the ball the whole time. Basically he called off the 1st basemen even though it was his ball clearly.
My question is whos fault is that? If you were the coach what would you have said to the players? |
Edited by - Gwinnett on 04/19/2011 02:19:20 |
|
|
beanball
222 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2011 : 09:26:33
|
You didn't mention the age group but if they're younger, 13U or perhaps 14U, this is common. Many players become disoriented on high pops.
Probably the 1st baseman should have called him off but I have never seen enough practice on this scenario. It is a teachable moment for the entire team. No reason to blame anyone.
Now, if it were 15U or up that 1st baseman would get some chewing.
|
 |
|
|
Hiredgun
44 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2011 : 09:48:05
|
I say that the 1B should have clearly called off the 2B for the ball. If the defensive team's dugout was on the 1B side of the field maybe one of the coaches could have offered some direction to the proper player that should have made the play.....in this case, the 1B.
You can't lay blame on the players as they were doing their best to make the play. |
|
|
|
AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2011 : 10:07:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by beanball
You didn't mention the age group but if they're younger, 13U or perhaps 14U, this is common. Many players become disoriented on high pops.
Probably the 1st baseman should have called him off but I have never seen enough practice on this scenario. It is a teachable moment for the entire team. No reason to blame anyone.
Now, if it were 15U or up that 1st baseman would get some chewing.
Opportunity for both. First baseman should have called him off. If it is a recurring issue where the 2nd baseman calls for pop-ups too quickly, he needs to be a little more patient. Good to be greedy and get to everything you can, but if you call it, you better catch it.
So your question is not whose fault is it, but which player has an opportunity to learn from it.
Unless they're 15. Then they get a chewing out.  |
|
|
|
Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2011 : 10:33:24
|
Your absolutely right Allstar, hopefully they both learned. I was taught if you called it YOU BETTER catch it. If you called it and didn't catch it, there would be some major chewing especially if you called it and it was hit to someone else. There age was 11.
quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
quote:
Originally posted by beanball
You didn't mention the age group but if they're younger, 13U or perhaps 14U, this is common. Many players become disoriented on high pops.
Probably the 1st baseman should have called him off but I have never seen enough practice on this scenario. It is a teachable moment for the entire team. No reason to blame anyone.
Now, if it were 15U or up that 1st baseman would get some chewing.
Opportunity for both. First baseman should have called him off. If it is a recurring issue where the 2nd baseman calls for pop-ups too quickly, he needs to be a little more patient. Good to be greedy and get to everything you can, but if you call it, you better catch it.
So your question is not whose fault is it, but which player has an opportunity to learn from it.
Unless they're 15. Then they get a chewing out.
|
Edited by - Gwinnett on 04/19/2011 10:34:53 |
|
|
|
Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2011 : 11:01:54
|
| Fault wasn't the best word to use. Not looking to blame anyone just trying to learn who was responsible and how I can learn from it and pass it along. Both boys EASILY could have caught it! No game was lost over it and no runs were given up. Just curious what everyones suppose to do? Thanks for your responses. This is what I love about this forum, you can get many opinions quickly! |
|
|
|
Hillio
123 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2011 : 12:18:49
|
The first basemen needs to open his mouth and call off the second basemen, regardless of what age group it's in. When a good team gives you opportunities to make easy plays like that, you have to make them or they will make you pay.
In the TC tournament this past weekend vs Mill Creek, we missed a few chances that we make plays on 9 out of 10 times that cost us probably 8 or 9 runs. We also made the game vs the Yankees a lot closer than it should have been due to a few simple misplays that they made us pay for.
There are some coaches that teach the 2nd baseman and SS that they are supposed to catch every single ball that they can get to in the infield. I guess it all depends on a given coaches philosophy, but IMO, a player should definitely catch any ball that's hit right to him as opposed to another player running in from 100 feet away to try and make the catch. |
|
|
|
nwgadad
137 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2011 : 13:10:44
|
| Throw my .02 cents. How about letting the SS or P in the infield call off the 2nd baseman. Since they are the two kids in charge of the infield. Again age group would matter. Most kids if they hear someone caling it will assume that the person calling it, will catch it. Ultimately, the 1B must not have paid attention as he would have seen the ball coming to them and should have just caught the ball. Lots of ways to look at it. |
|
|
|
gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2011 : 13:36:30
|
| Good question and an important one as it's not only a baseball functional question but a safety question as well. I've seen coaches practice this exact thing again and again and again so that the boys begin to know each others range, range for the position etc. Nobody wants to see kids running into each other and getting hurt. |
|
|
|
beanball
222 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2011 : 14:18:23
|
From my experience the "easy" pop fly. can be the most difficult play to make. Ask A Rod. and somewher aroud 13U or 14U you beging to see the real "major league" pops. Until you've stood under one of them there is no way to describe it and most players that age will shy away, particullarly if its hit right above them.
I'm still seeing HS players on good teams struggle with pop-ups. Its just the way it is like it or not. |
|
|
|
ramman999
241 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2011 : 15:31:56
|
I would explain to my 1st baseman that it was his ball, and he needs to call him off on that play. If he could not track it, and the 2nd baseman had a better read, then to get out of the way!
I would tell my 2nd baseman that while I appreciate the range he shows, if he calls it, catch it unless called off.
It would definitely be a practice topic at the next practice!
If this helps - I position my 2nd basemen closer to the edge of the infield, and I coach a 10' rule for my corner infielders - I expect my 1st baseman and 3rd baseman to range for balls hit within 10' of their bag. I also have my SS captain the infield, and he will direct traffic in the event of a potential overlap. But no mater how much you drill it, it's bound to happen. |
|
|
|
Stinger44
49 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2011 : 15:55:03
|
I say clearly the second baseman's ball.
Off course once he calls it he better get it.
Same as SS behind 3rd and pitcher near catcher, different reason of course for the pitcher.
2nd base and SS have much better angle at pop than 1st or 3rd backing up. |
|
|
|
momshell
103 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2011 : 16:12:37
|
I thought it was just our team that was doing this! I hate to say it but I'm kinda relieved. We really struggled with these high infield pop ups this week.
quote:
Originally posted by beanball
From my experience the "easy" pop fly. can be the most difficult play to make. Ask A Rod. and somewher aroud 13U or 14U you beging to see the real "major league" pops. Until you've stood under one of them there is no way to describe it and most players that age will shy away, particullarly if its hit right above them.
I'm still seeing HS players on good teams struggle with pop-ups. Its just the way it is like it or not.
|
|
|
|
Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2011 : 17:25:44
|
| I see communication is key, no matter who the ball is hit too! My son and I couldn't agree on this one so I thought I would get some feedback. Really, it doesn't matter what him and I think because the coach told him how it is for the team. So that was our true answer! |
|
|
|
ljames
48 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2011 : 11:25:56
|
| I will start by saying that all the players on the field played a role in the ball being dropped. IMO, for some reason baseball has started to take a trend with our young players as a quiet sport on the field. There is more talk outside the field and in the dugout than on the actual field. All players should understand that more is said on the field than just calling the ball that they feel they can get to or those crazy chants at the very young age groups (I hate those BTW). Other players looking at the play actually have a better angle of the balls flight and can help out on the play by calling off the 2nd baseman and telling 1st that it is actually his ball. You see pitchers do this often with a pop-up in the infield. The same applies to a ball hit right at a player where the play is obviously his. The other players have a better view of the balls flight and can help the player judge the ball by yelling up or back. I've stopped coaching on the field as my son has gotten older, but when I was coaching I would make it a point to get my players to talk baseball when on the field. What happened to the infielders turning to the outfielders yelling and showing them with fingers the number of outs? What about yelling "hook" when a lefty is up so the fielders can shift? How about the pitcher talking to 2nd or SS about who he's working with to turn 2 on a ball hit back at him? I remember doing it and I know many of you do too. So the question then becomes, why don't most of our kids do it? Just to put my 2 cents in on this one. |
Edited by - ljames on 04/20/2011 11:39:17 |
|
|
|
biggin
174 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2011 : 13:18:12
|
| Its so easy if coaches would teach it. Its calle fly ball overrule rule. 2nd basemen has authority over 1st ,pitcer,and catcher. 1st basemen has it over pitcher and catcher. 3rd base over pitcher and catcher. Ss over everyone on infield.all outfielders have it over all infielders with center having it over everyone. Now with that bein said it sounds like in this case just over aggresion by 2nd basemen. Good teachin point |
|
|
|
loveforthegame25
448 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2011 : 21:13:07
|
| Fielders from behind that are approaching are taught to call off the fielder in front of them that are moving back. 1st baseman is getting blamed for something he was most likely instructed to do. If he calls off the 2nd basemen and happens to miss it. He would have been told it was the 2nd basemens ball. |
|
|
|
Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2011 : 21:00:01
|
Damed if you do and damed if you don't!....lol
quote:
Originally posted by loveforthegame25
Fielders from behind that are approaching are taught to call off the fielder in front of them that are moving back. 1st baseman is getting blamed for something he was most likely instructed to do. If he calls off the 2nd basemen and happens to miss it. He would have been told it was the 2nd basemens ball.
|
|
|
|
biged
198 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2011 : 21:50:03
|
pitcher calls off the catcher, any infielder calls off the pitcher. ss calls off all other infielders. outfield calls off all infielders.
Now the real question is why wasn't the first baseman more aggressive or was the 2nd baseman too aggressive.
HS game just last night. An over aggressive 3rd baseman called off the entire infield and dropped the ball on the first base side of the mound. everyone was calling for it. 3rd baseman just happened to be the loudest. This was obviously the 3rd baseman's FAULT.
One more point, pitcher should not ever be in charge of deciding who gets the pop up. |
|
|
|
PerfectGame
55 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2011 : 22:53:41
|
I agree with ljames. I'll admit I have NO clue what the "rules" are on something like that but I know my son's coaches are always telling them to talk to each other on the field. I think it's especially important for a first year team still getting to know each other.
|
|
|
|
RACGOFAR
208 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2011 : 23:10:23
|
This is an easy one. The 2b has priority over the 1b on pop ups, even those close to the 1b. the 1b can certainly call off if its dropping right on him, but that is hard to tell and better to yield if a player with priority is calling. the 2b may have been a bit quick to call, but better they be greedy than indecisive. Basic fly ball priority at any level of play generally is:
CF over all
outfielders over infielders
SS over all infielders
2b over 1b, p
all infielders over pitcher
everybody over the catcher
Outfielders should yell "mine, mine, mine"
Infielders yell "got it, got it, got it"
This helps give them a verbal signal as to who is calling and who has priority. |
|
|
|
CoachDad
52 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2011 : 10:34:09
|
| Thanks for the reminder... I'm taking another trip through, (22,18,17 and 6 no empty nest here) so this past Wendesday at practice, one of our drills with my 6 year olds was catching pop flies: mechanics and communication. Ball Ball Ball and Yours Yours Yours. |
|
|
|
HITANDRUN
436 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 08:27:38
|
| If it's a major league pop-up I think the second baseman takes it if he calls it soon enough, if the first baseman can field it with out moving maybe he calls off the second baseman, but 2Bman calls it he should stay with it. Second basemen usually move better than most first baseman and better at pop ups, 1st baseman should have gone to bag and setup in case of bobble if he would not be in the 2nd baseman's way. I am not a big fan of "got it", I like "mine" only because got it sounds to much like take it. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
YOU MAKE THE CALL
