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bstand
56 Posts |
 Posted - 04/11/2011 : 13:07:46
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I wanted to pick everyone's brain out there and see if I am off my rocker or if I understand the rule correctly.....
This weekend, we had a scenario take place where a player, (1B), on the opposing team came out to the mound between innings, carrying the ball with him that he would eventually warm the infield up with. He not only toed the rubber with the ball in his hand, (just as a note the game ball was lying on the ground behind the mound), he delivered a couple of pitches to the catcher. He proceeded to 1B, and the pitcher of record came out and took the mound. I protested this with the umpire crew, who had their backs to the field speaking with the TD at the fence while this was taking place. The ruling was made that since they didn't see him deliver a pitch, though they did see him toe the rubber, there was no consequence. I was always under the impression that once a player toes the rubber, they have to throw at least 1 pitch to a batter. Is this correct, and how should the ruling have came down? Thanks for the comments! |
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christheump
351 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2011 : 14:40:01
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quote:
Originally posted by bstand
I wanted to pick everyone's brain out there and see if I am off my rocker or if I understand the rule correctly.....
This weekend, we had a scenario take place where a player, (1B), on the opposing team came out to the mound between innings, carrying the ball with him that he would eventually warm the infield up with. He not only toed the rubber with the ball in his hand, (just as a note the game ball was lying on the ground behind the mound), he delivered a couple of pitches to the catcher. He proceeded to 1B, and the pitcher of record came out and took the mound. I protested this with the umpire crew, who had their backs to the field speaking with the TD at the fence while this was taking place. The ruling was made that since they didn't see him deliver a pitch, though they did see him toe the rubber, there was no consequence. I was always under the impression that once a player toes the rubber, they have to throw at least 1 pitch to a batter. Is this correct, and how should the ruling have came down? Thanks for the comments!
You are correct...but if they didnt see it, its hard to enforce. |
Edited by - christheump on 04/11/2011 14:53:05 |
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ECB
14 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2011 : 15:20:25
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| Would it really have mattered? If the kid would have throw one pitch and then the coach pulled him what would the differece of been? If it was the starting pitcher he can re-enter after the one pitch. |
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bstand
56 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2011 : 21:22:14
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It probably wouldn't matter to you... It wasn't your game. That is a short-sighted attitude. To be honest, since I was there, I can offer some insight. Egos may have gotten the better of the opposing coaches and they may have left the new pitcher in the game. According to them, he throws harder and we would be doing them a favor by forcing them to bring him in. (Notice that offer was hollow since the change wasn't made.)
The intent here wasn't to debate whether it would have made a difference ECB. It was to make sure I had a proper understanding of the rules. Having said that, there were other questionable interpretations of the rules during the game in question, and if I establish a pattern of my knowing the rules, and the officials not knowing, perhaps, just perhaps, all that added together would have made a difference. Sorry if this topic isn't to your liking. |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2011 : 11:04:29
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Not all sanctioning bodies will let you re-enter a starting pitcher. USSSA for one. It could have made a difference.
To bstand's point, it's about interpreting and following the rules. There are so many urban legends around the rule interpretations that it is good to ask these sometimes to talk through what is really the rule. |
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christheump
351 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2011 : 11:27:53
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ECB..you are incorrect...as Alter Ego pointed out...not all leagues allow a pitcher to re-enter the game as a pitcher.
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Edited by - christheump on 04/12/2011 11:31:01 |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2011 : 12:39:15
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| I hate to see these rules are so hard to interperet. BStand bringing this up is important, because not a year goes by when coaches aren't arguing pitching rules regarding walking over the mound, toe the rubber, actually throw a warm up pitch, or even picking a baseball up and handing it to the pitcher. I for one would like the rules to be the same with every age group and every organization, I'm not for free substitution but I do believe that pitcher is just another position on the field. There are too many rules that are specific to only pitchers that have nothing to do with arm safety, these rules are different for each organization and IMO a baseball coach shouldn't need a study guide to coach such a simple game. |
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christheump
351 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2011 : 13:49:23
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| I was taught not to call it unless the kid picks the ball, toes the rubber, and starts any motion associated with throwing a pitch. No call if he just walks across the mound and picks it up and hands or tosses it to the pitcher. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2011 : 15:52:32
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quote:
Originally posted by christheump
I was taught not to call it unless the kid picks the ball, toes the rubber, and starts any motion associated with throwing a pitch. No call if he just walks across the mound and picks it up and hands or tosses it to the pitcher.
Thank you for your responses on here. There are fewer things I appreciate more than an umpire who doesn't think he is God/King and can actually talk to us....We need many many many many many more like you |
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Scorekeeper
35 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2011 : 16:08:04
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Saw it called on an 8 year old for picking the ball up and handing it to his pitcher.
Of course the whole situation was gamed by the opposing coaches in a final act of desperation to win. |
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bstand
56 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2011 : 21:24:46
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| I appreciate everyone's responses. I am glad to know that I had the right understanding of the ruling. This rule is the reason that I make sure that when I perform mound visits where the infield takes part, we do it behind the mound, way off the rubber. Just to avoid this situation. Not to get off topic, but we had a father/son umpire team this weekend, who had the right attitude about things, but had poor, poor understanding of the rules, and missed a lot of calls. At the plate meeting of our first game he told me because we had 9 players, that if injury occurred, we would forfeit the game. He didn't know that we could take an out each inning and continue to play with 8. The father has clearly been umpiring for 20+ years, so I was amazed at how much he didn't know. Crazy! I will never blame a loss on umpires, because if the game was close enough to be decided by blue, we didn't do enough to win the game that day. Having said that, this was a close game, 0-0 through 4 innings, and finished 2-0, so it wouldn't have taken much to affect the outcome of the game. |
Edited by - bstand on 04/12/2011 23:01:43 |
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Question about pitching rules
