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bigdog
231 Posts |
 Posted - 12/03/2010 : 06:20:51
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| Help. I am torn trying to decide what is best option for my son. He is a 15u sophmore. He has been offered a spot on a 16u team and a 15u team. The 15u team is more well known program. However some are telling me that with his junior year around the corner he will need to play 17u in Summer 2012 in order to be seen recruiting wise. He played 14u ball this past summer. So-does he jump to 16u this year and play with his HS class/sophmores (to see stronger competition/pitching) now in order to be ready to play 17u in 2012 or does he play in a 15u program that is more visable now and then try to make the jump to 17u ball? Or should he just stay in age group straight thru HS (15u for Summer 2011, 16u for 2012 and then 17u for Summer after graduating HS?). For arguments sake lets say playing time on each team would be equal. |
Edited by - bigdog on 12/03/2010 06:23:58 |
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beanball
222 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2010 : 09:06:03
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| I would play with your grade or higher at this point. The lines between age groups start to blur @15U & up. |
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Hurricane
351 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2010 : 09:23:38
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| Play up, never go wrong playing up. Unless your son hasn't hit his growth spurt or is on the small side and will struggle playing up. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2010 : 10:06:50
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| Write every option down on a piece of paper for him, then make a copy for yourself. Have him rate 1-100 (100 being highest) which options he likes best, (but he can't show it to you yet). At the same time, you rate each option 1-100 which programs you think would best develop his skills (not showing your scoring to him). Now, compare your lists and add both scores for each option. Discuss the top two point getter's in more depth. If its a tie, his choice prevails. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2010 : 10:40:13
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| In my opinion, he should play with his grade. Especially when he gets to 17. If his travel team is a good one, they will play up most of the summer anyway. With my son's 16 year old travel team last summer, they played only 2 16 year old tournaments. One was the 1st tournament we played during the summer (Triple Crown)and the 2nd was the Perfect Game WWBA 16u. Everything else was 17 or 18 tournaments. I think it's important that scouts and coaches know what grade your son is when he plays. I would definetely not play down. Stick with the age most closely associated with his graduating class and play on a team that will challenge the players by playing up and against the best competition they can find and at events where there will be exposure. |
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Triple
26 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2010 : 11:31:56
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| Eventually all the kids playing down have to play with the kids their age or grade. Better to do it sooner than later. Your son can only get better if he has to work harder and if he is any good he will step it up. The school year is a September 1st cutoff IMO baseball should line up accordingly. |
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2010 : 14:55:09
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| I agree earlier is better. My son is moving up this year at 12U, skipping 11U. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2010 : 19:12:25
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We have always played up an age group and we will play some 12's this year as well.....My nephew is now playing with his grade, for many reasons....One reason is there are a few boys that are already grown men at 12 and mine is just barely breaking 100lbs...I don't think it would matter as there are some smaller 12s as well, just what we decided to do....
I agree with Triple that the age group cutoff should be consistent regardless what sanctioning body yall are playing in or HS......It would make things a little less complicated |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2010 : 20:18:01
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Bigdog,
There is also the aspect of the quality of the two teams to compare, and what each will provide. Playing up does not always ensure better competition or a better learning experience. I think you have to look at what both teams will be playing and what the liklihood of them playing deep into tournaments, against good competition. (Many may argue but the depth and level of competition at the group playing 15U is stronger than that playing 16u.) We have seen that by the number of times teams have played up over the last year or two and been successful. (Some age groups have more athletes, others have more scholars, others have more girls, while others have more boys. It is the way of life.)
Point is, look at all the factors to make your decision that will make your son better. |
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Hitman
33 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2010 : 01:18:51
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| Excellent point. We learned that lesson by going through it. That was a long season. Don't make the same mistake. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2010 : 10:17:58
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If everyone played with their grade, I'm guessing that over half the boys would have to change teams and move up! Our team has 8 of 11 7th graders playing 12u and only 3 6th graders. I hope the 8 7th graders don't read this string and decide to play their grade.
Does anyone out there have more than 1/2 lower grade players? I'd be surprised if any do, especially in Majors or AAA. |
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Triple
26 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2010 : 17:22:10
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Well, if a team is comprised of kids a year older than "the grade", then the team should be beating everyone out there.
I still think kids should play their grade. Yeah, they might not be bigger and stronger than everyone else, but they will be playing their grade. If they are good and work hard they will still be successful.
Only time will tell when they all stop growing which ones will be able to compete at the highest levels. |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2010 : 19:10:45
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| I don't think the grade ratio makes as much difference as how many kids you have on a team that have birthdays prior to Jan 1st. It seems the stronger teams have few to no players with Pre-May birthdays. |
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Gold Glove
129 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2010 : 11:35:57
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(Many may argue but the depth and level of competition at the group playing 15U is stronger than that playing 16u.) We have seen that by the number of times teams have played up over the last year or two and been successful. (Some age groups have more athletes, others have more scholars, others have more girls, while others have more boys. It is the way of life.)
Point is, look at all the factors to make your decision that will make your son better.
Alter Ego,
Not sure if you are referring to 2010 or 2011 15U vs. 16U? My experience this past summer was the top 15U teams were playing up and you weren't seeing the best in most 16U tourneys. |
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toprank
138 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2010 : 11:50:46
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Does anyone out there have more than 1/2 lower grade players? I'd be surprised if any do, especially in Majors or AAA.
Venom at 11U last year had (1) 6th grader, the rest were all true 5th graders and I believe one true 4th grader. |
Edited by - toprank on 12/07/2010 14:04:37 |
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beanball
222 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2010 : 12:21:02
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GG,
Have you ever thought that perhaps the better 16U teams are off playing 17U or 18U? The age lines get blurred once you get above 14U and while there are some very good 14 & 15U teams all things being equal I think there is very good talent in all age groups in this area. |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2010 : 13:32:37
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Gold Glove,
I am comparing 2010 14u's to 2010 15U's. I am just making this based on watching these age groups over the past several years, both locally and nationally. (Reinforced by 5 14U Astros making the 2011 16U Astros). I am more talking about the depth of competition anyway.
It is all debatable, on that point. My only point was that there are other factors that need to go into the decision. Being on a below average 2011 16U team is not a better option that being on a good 15U team.
It's about the development of players. Especially at that age. Where are you going to maximize your reps-to-competition factor? |
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Triple
26 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2010 : 16:42:33
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If most teams have kids a year older than "grade" or atleast half of them and it has to be that way in order to have a "good" team then I have to go back to my earlier point that the school year has a September 1st cut off and baseball should line up accordingly. An August or September date and then you have kids from the same grade playing together.
Now you have middle school kids playing with elementary school kids and high school kids playing with middle schoolers, of course only with 8th grade and 5th grade. Yeah those bigger kids can over power those younger ones, but what is the purpose of that?
I just think kids should play their grade. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2010 : 21:43:25
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Triple:
I agree that baseball should have the same Sept. 1st cutoff school does, but until International baseball agrees, I guess we're stuck with what we've got. I've read that is what drives the decision. It used to be the same as school, but it changed (I'm not sure how long ago). When I played, about ?? number of years ago, it was all done by grade.
Given the May 1st cutoff, I can't see many folks voluntarily playing their grade. Things have gotten too competitive to give up this advantage. I know of very few folks who play up all the time to stay with their grade level. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say less than 10%. I just hope my son sticks with it until Freshman tryouts when the playing field will level out for him. |
Edited by - bmoser on 12/07/2010 22:58:40 |
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G-Man
326 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2010 : 03:20:51
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I have to disagree with you here Hurricane. Being small has nothing to do with your ability to play or play up. My son is 11 years old and only 5'1 85lbs. However he played on a 14u major team this past spring, summer and 14u AA team this fall. Started at SS for both teams and hit 2nd in the lineup for both. Yet all these other players were A LOT BIGGER than he is.
There was never a time that he was over powered or couldnt compete because of his size vs the other players. So I have to disagree that if this player is on the smaller size play his own age grp and not play up. I say if you can compete at a level above your age, you play above your age group.
As for the posters question. I say play up in the 16 yr old grp. Playing up only helps you as a player. Not only because the game is faster but also will help your son from the mental aspect of the game playing with older young men. Look at it this way. If he gets to play say 17u 2 years before he is suppose to this will give him 2 extra years to be seen at that age group by scouts and college recruiters. Just my 2 cents for what its worth.
quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
Play up, never go wrong playing up. Unless your son hasn't hit his growth spurt or is on the small side and will struggle playing up.
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bruins1
32 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2010 : 10:01:26
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Dustin Pedroia is just one example of someone who has heard this his whole life G-Man --when he was a youth, in high school, when he was Arizona State's starting shortstop and even after he was drafted in round 1. He learned to just tune out that kind of chatter and use it as a motivator. His book is a good read. I highly recommend it.
quote:
Originally posted by G-Man
I have to disagree with you here Hurricane. Being small has nothing to do with your ability to play or play up. My son is 11 years old and only 5'1 85lbs. However he played on a 14u major team this past spring, summer and 14u AA team this fall. Started at SS for both teams and hit 2nd in the lineup for both. Yet all these other players were A LOT BIGGER than he is.
There was never a time that he was over powered or couldnt compete because of his size vs the other players. So I have to disagree that if this player is on the smaller size play his own age grp and not play up. I say if you can compete at a level above your age, you play above your age group.
As for the posters question. I say play up in the 16 yr old grp. Playing up only helps you as a player. Not only because the game is faster but also will help your son from the mental aspect of the game playing with older young men. Look at it this way. If he gets to play say 17u 2 years before he is suppose to this will give him 2 extra years to be seen at that age group by scouts and college recruiters. Just my 2 cents for what its worth.
quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
Play up, never go wrong playing up. Unless your son hasn't hit his growth spurt or is on the small side and will struggle playing up.
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2010 : 14:02:30
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Yep, I agree, size has nothing to do with it. A player's ability may be a factor, but size does not dictate the ability. My son was around 5'8" 150 lbs. his freshman year. Pitched varsity in region 6 AAAAA and held his own. If he let size be the determining factor, he never would have had the confidence to do what he has done. He even says he likes being smaller because his opponents underestimate him and he will take them down.
I don't know how much it matters at the younger ages to play with your grade, but once you get to HS, I really think you should so scouts know what grade you're in.
BTW, the old cutoff didn't necessarily guarantee you played with your grade. My son has a July birthday and until he was 12, played with kids that were a grade ahead of him. All the kids he played with then are now seniors and he is a junior. In fact, he never played a game being the age of the age group he was in. In other words, when he played 11u ball, he was 10 the whole time, etc. When the age dates changed, he played 12u again and that is when he started playing with his class. I really think it helped him playing up from 7u to 12u. He was always the smallest kid out there and had to work to compete. And work he did, he was usually one of the best players on the team and always the best pitcher.
Don't let size discourage you. Even now, as a 17 year old Jr., he is still just 5'9", about 165-170 lbs and touches 88 on his fastball. |
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Gold Glove
129 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2010 : 15:52:44
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Beanball,
That's what I meant to say in my post. From tourney to tourney different teams were playing up. There weren't many weeks where all of the best teams at 15U were playing together except PG. And you are right that the lines/ages start getting blurred once the boys get to high scholl age travel.
Alter - Ego,
Happens every year, the older 14U's move up to 16U to play with their grade. There is great talent at every age group, but to say this past years 14's were superior to the 15's is absurd. This past year's 6-4-3, ECB Astros, ECB Titans, Team Georgia 15U's all competed favorably both locally and nationally. |
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Opinions-Playing Age Group or School Class
