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MadSkills
128 Posts |
 Posted - 08/12/2010 : 20:46:35
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| Is it me or does anyone else find it interesting that all these pitchers throw that hard? The two kids I watched from TX were throwing low to mid 70's, that seem very fast to me, is this the norm or are these guns faster? |
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lottapop
257 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2010 : 22:09:53
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| the norm, if your from TX,CA,GA,FL.Teams from the northern states seem to be a bit slower. Most of these kids are already 13 and with the mound at 46'...its pure gas at that distance! Columbus plays tomorrow @8 on espn2. |
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KoopsDad
73 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2010 : 22:47:12
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| At this level of play (Regionals) the teams from the stronger regions usually get there only if they have a very dominating pitcher. The mph being shown is probably about right. My son just played with Toccoa for the 11-12 Ga state little league championship in Columbus against Northern of Columbus. Jacob Pate who wrapped up the game against WV on Wednesday and who will pitch against Fla on Friday pitched 5 2/3 against us. We had heard stories all week long about people recording him on the gun at anywhere from 78-82. Espn on Wed had him around 77-78. Regardless of what he was throwing it is nasty at 46 ft. |
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Shut Out
512 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2010 : 22:57:14
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| They are hard throwers but they are being measured from 46'. Back them to 50 and the mph would be about 5 less. I know its only 4 feet but it makes a difference. |
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touchemall
145 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2010 : 23:13:21
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| The mound is only 46 feet away and the bases are 60 feet. Time for Little League to move the kids back. I find it hard to watch these big kids on the same fields I watch 8 year olds play on. Also, all of them are throwing junk like sliders and curve balls. I thought the rule on curve balls was not until atleast 13 and then not that many. I watched a pitcher tonight throw 4 in a row and a coach go out to the mound and instruct him to throw that mean curve. Not the forum for the curve ball discussion but I found it odd. |
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Goin Deep
140 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2010 : 05:11:15
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They are 12 and 13 years old throwing from 46 feet. That says it all right there. No lead offs, pick offs, 200 foot fences, 46 foot mound to plate, no thanks. |
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crackedbats
160 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2010 : 06:08:41
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| and these 12u (and some have already turned 13 after the date) are throwing from around 46ft. If you remember Kyle Carter from Columbus who played on the 16u Astros this past year...he was throwing 77-82 when he pitched at the Litte League WS if a remember right. |
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bobby
87 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2010 : 06:14:18
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| The mound is only 46 feet away and they are 12 year olds. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2010 : 10:20:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Shut Out
They are hard throwers but they are being measured from 46'. Back them to 50 and the mph would be about 5 less. I know its only 4 feet but it makes a difference.
Velocity is velocity. It is measured out of the hand. Doesn't matter if it is 46' or 60'6", it is still the same velocity out of the hand. By the time it reaches the plate it will be a little slower, but all the readings you see are out of the hand - top velocity - and won't change if you move back. Batters will have more time to react though.
I agree with everyone. 46' is too close for these kids. The problem is, these are the best of the best by the time they reach TV games. For the VAST majority of LL players who play all season, the dimensions are probably OK. I don't think you can change field size just for the playoffs. |
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smoke
91 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2010 : 11:33:34
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| CROSS REFERENCE THE LITTLE LEAGUE ROSTERS OF THE 2 TEAMS TONITE WITH USSSA. YOU WILL SEE SEVERAL KIDS FROM THE "CHAIN YANKEES" ON THE COLUMBUS (GA.) ROSTER AND SEVERAL KIDS FROM THE "BEYEL BROTHERS" ON THE FLORIDA ROSTER. MOST OF THE KIDS ON THE TEAMS THAT MAKE IT THIS FAR ALSO PLAY TRAVEL BALL. YOU WILL BASICALLY SEE THE "CHAIN YANKEES" #1 PITCHER THROWING AGAINST MANY OF THE "BEYEL BROTHERS" TONITE AT 8PM ON ESPN. |
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lottapop
257 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2010 : 12:54:50
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| I wished LL would be over in time where these kids could make the trip to Memphis. Would be interesting on how they would stack up! |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2010 : 13:48:20
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lottapop,
Boy, that's a hornet's nest. With the LL's pitch count rules, mandatory play for all players every game, field dimensions, no lead-off's, etc., who's rules do you play by? Either way, someone's at a distinct disadvantage. |
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dog at bat
2 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2010 : 19:49:34
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| As one whose son has played against Columbus Northern in this years LL State Tournament, their ace can surely bring it from 46 feet. The velocity was from 75-78 mph. The ace gave up 3 hits in 3 2/3 innings against our team. On the flip side, my son's 12u Major team played against the Beyel Brothers travel team in Super Nits around the South East. The Florida LL team has a pitcher, a Beyel Brothers player also, who can bring it 75-78 mph. The game is going to be a good one to determine who goes to the LL World Series at Williamsport. Well, its getting close to 8pm so I better go find espn2. Go Georgia! P.S. If you can hit that kind of pitching from 46 feet, you should not have a problem playing anywhere |
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10 BB
264 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2010 : 20:34:54
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| I've been watching and can tell you that Papa would hate these umpires because it seems to me that all a pitcher has to do is get it close (within a foot) to the plate and it's called a strike!!!! |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2010 : 01:33:26
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| I think the LL rules are a joke!!! I cannot believe there are no lead offs and that tiny fence...What does this do to get the boys ready for real baseball?? And what the heck is ESPN thinking in televising this? They should air the elite 32 in several age groups, at least then you could see some real baseball, and the mandatory participation rule is another joke, if you are about to win the game you have to pull your starters to play lesser talent?? Just makes zero sense to me to even call this "elite" baseball if the governing body dictates how you play the game. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2010 : 08:48:20
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Georgia's off to Williamsport! Great pitching performance by GA's hurler. Fun game to watch, even with all the silly rules. My son kept yelling "RUN" at the TV on every dropped 3rd strike. I think they call large strike zones large to keep the games moving along.
With all the late swings and balls going to the right side, why not reverse your 2nd baseman and Short Stop, and your 3rd baseman and 1st baseman? I'd have a Softball Coach teach my smaller players to slap hit.
I loved the quick dress-down the Coach got from Ms. Tourney Director on the illegal substitution. I'll bet they got her from the Military base nearby. |
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lottapop
257 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2010 : 09:55:34
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| Poor pitching mechanics on the FL team, surprised they were from the Beyel Bros. Congrats to the Columbus team! |
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excoach12
159 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2010 : 10:12:31
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Could you see lead offs being allowed on a 60' base path with 12 (really 13) year olds?? They would be 50' from the next base and get there with 4 or 5 strides. They could stop and shave along the way at least.
LL needs to grow up and put these players on a full sized field and move the pitchers back and make the rules more like travel ball. It's just not interesting to watch right now.
That Georgia pitcher, Pate, was throwing some heat! |
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Shut Out
512 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2010 : 16:52:30
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
quote:
Originally posted by Shut Out
They are hard throwers but they are being measured from 46'. Back them to 50 and the mph would be about 5 less. I know its only 4 feet but it makes a difference.
Velocity is velocity. It is measured out of the hand. Doesn't matter if it is 46' or 60'6", it is still the same velocity out of the hand. By the time it reaches the plate it will be a little slower, but all the readings you see are out of the hand - top velocity - and won't change if you move back. Batters will have more time to react though.
I agree with everyone. 46' is too close for these kids. The problem is, these are the best of the best by the time they reach TV games. For the VAST majority of LL players who play all season, the dimensions are probably OK. I don't think you can change field size just for the playoffs.
Your wrong; the gun is from behind the catcher so it measures the speed it is moving at the closest distance to the gun. |
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CoachDad
52 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2010 : 20:56:08
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Just so you know.... they move up to the bigger field at age 13. At this age, Little League allows runers to take leads and steal off of the pitchers. At this age, balks are also called. From age 7 to age 12, little league is played on the 60' basepaths, runners steal off of the catcher and balks are not a part of the game. From my observations, the pitchers have the most difficult time during the transition learning to not balk and the batters' difficulties lie in the move to the heavier bat.
Whether of not you think Little League baseball is not "real" is immaterial. It is as real a brand of baseball as any played in Cobb County. My father is a baseball purist and can't stand Little League's rules and inept coaching so much he does not go. You have the same choice.
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2010 : 21:42:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Shut Out
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
quote:
Originally posted by Shut Out
They are hard throwers but they are being measured from 46'. Back them to 50 and the mph would be about 5 less. I know its only 4 feet but it makes a difference.
Velocity is velocity. It is measured out of the hand. Doesn't matter if it is 46' or 60'6", it is still the same velocity out of the hand. By the time it reaches the plate it will be a little slower, but all the readings you see are out of the hand - top velocity - and won't change if you move back. Batters will have more time to react though.
I agree with everyone. 46' is too close for these kids. The problem is, these are the best of the best by the time they reach TV games. For the VAST majority of LL players who play all season, the dimensions are probably OK. I don't think you can change field size just for the playoffs.
Your wrong; the gun is from behind the catcher so it measures the speed it is moving at the closest distance to the gun.
I'm not wrong. The guns pick up the ball as it comes out of the pitchers hand. If it is what you are saying, they would be throwing a lot harder than the readings say they are. All gun readings you see are out of the hand. Unless you are using a cheap bushnell from way back. |
Edited by - bballman on 08/15/2010 00:03:20 |
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excoach12
159 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2010 : 11:28:51
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Girls! Girls! You're both pretty! Just kidding........
After researching quite a bit what I found out is that pitcher velocity is most commonly measured at release from the pitchers hand. That is the maximum velocity of the pitch. Being in the entertainment industry and wanting to provide the most "wow" factor to their audience, TV broadcasts display the maximum velocity so, therefore, when Pate was throwing 77mph it was as the ball was coming out of his hand.
Also, Yale physics professor Robert Adair, in his book The Physics of Baseball, concluded that a baseball slows down, on average, 1mph every 7 feet of travel. So at 46 feet, a 77mph fastball reaches home plate at about 70.5mph.
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Shut Out
512 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2010 : 09:48:20
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| i can admit when i'm wrong. look at you guys pulling out your science books. very impressive |
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oldmanmj
191 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2010 : 10:34:08
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| The biggest difference, precluding distances etc. is that the teams can not recruit like they do in travel ball. They have to be from a specific geographic location within their community, so you can't fly players in from FL to play for a GA team. So the teams aren't stacked with talent. The LLWS and Dizzie Dean need to change their rules for 12U as most of those kids are being left behind. I have seen past LLWS teams get buried when they have played major travel teams because of the rules differences. They are trying to get in to more Travel tournaments, but usually do not fair well at all. |
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2010 : 11:38:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Shut Out
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
quote:
Originally posted by Shut Out
They are hard throwers but they are being measured from 46'. Back them to 50 and the mph would be about 5 less. I know its only 4 feet but it makes a difference.
Velocity is velocity. It is measured out of the hand. Doesn't matter if it is 46' or 60'6", it is still the same velocity out of the hand. By the time it reaches the plate it will be a little slower, but all the readings you see are out of the hand - top velocity - and won't change if you move back. Batters will have more time to react though.
I agree with everyone. 46' is too close for these kids. The problem is, these are the best of the best by the time they reach TV games. For the VAST majority of LL players who play all season, the dimensions are probably OK. I don't think you can change field size just for the playoffs.
Your wrong; the gun is from behind the catcher so it measures the speed it is moving at the closest distance to the gun.
You might both be right. It depends on the brand of gun. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2010 : 12:11:35
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Yes, the stalker will, if the user programs for it, give you a maximum velocity (out of the pitcher's hand) and a velocity just prior to hitting the catcher's mitt (or slowest read velocity). However, my guess would be that the velocities given are maximum. All velocities you see given at MLB events, PG events, really anywhere you see velocities given are for the maximum - out of hand - velocity. I seriously doubt LL is giving the lower velocities. They could be, but I doubt it.
If they were, then shoutout would be correct. If they moved back, the lowest velocity would drop due to excoach's formula. However, maximum velocities would be the same. |
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Topic |
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Little League WS
