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coachtony
236 Posts |
 Posted - 07/03/2010 : 17:03:33
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Coaches....I have a question for you. We all know that the first few years of kid pitch baseball, you are simply trying to get the kids to throw strikes as hard as they can. As they master that we begin to teach them speeds and positions. Here is my question(s)....
1) At what age/skill level do you, the coach, start calling in pitches to the catcher(inside/outside/off speed, etc)?
2) At what age/skill level do you start letting the catcher and pitcher begin to call their own?
I see two schools of thought here....on one hand at 10-11-12 we are trying to get them to master baseball rules and strategies and can we really expect them to get in deep enough to understand how to set up batters and draw swings, etc. On the other hand, at 10-11-12 they are probably only going to actually pitch the exact pitch that was called 50-60% of the time anyway so why not let them start learning WHY they pitch a high fastball to an obvious bunter, etc.
I am interested to know how YOU teach it.
Thanks.
--T
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coachtony
236 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2010 : 18:52:53
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Wow! I didn't realize that these were trade secrets LOL! ;) Almost 350 views over 3 days and not a single response. Either I am treading into waters that are too personal or everybody thinks that the way they do it is wrong. Not sure which.
--T
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2010 : 09:36:54
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Interesting to me that coaches believe that kids at these ages can hit spots. I see more coaches get upset, yell, scream, fold their arms and pout etc., after a pitcher didn't hit his "spot". My reply to this is "you have absolutely got to be kidding me" !!!!! If you called a fastball and the kid threw a fastball or some type of breaking ball, he should be rewarded not scolded if you are truly trying to teach him strategies, regardless of if it was hit. He threw the pitch you called.
If the pro's can't hit their spots 100% of the time, how can we reasonably expect kids to do it ? I ABSOLUTELY think it's good to call pitches to teach strategy, however, I also think we have to ask the question, "at what age can we reasonably expect a kid to have the type of command where he can locate his pitches" ? Perhaps if we segregate the two questions, we can get a more refined answer to your original question Coach T. |
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beanball
222 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2010 : 10:33:58
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tony,
It was our experience that my son, as a catcher began calling pitches towards the end of the 13U season and some in 14U. Occasionally the coach would call in a pitch in certain situations. But I think this is going to be a on a case by case basis with a lot depending on the players and coaches involved.
My sons happened to be a well above average pitcher as well as catcher, that has a keen understanding of pitch location, batters weakness and situations. Add to that a coach that did not possess the same skills and it was a relatively easy decision. I think a good pitching coach will call most pitches into HS and beyond but I think it good to begin teaching the pitch call strategy @ about 13U.
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jdrew
30 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2010 : 11:37:00
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Coach Tony...great question!
1) As soon as kid pitch starts is when I started calling pitches. Last year at the start of 9U AAA/Major, we had only 2 of the 11 kids with any kid pitch experience. My goals last year were to 1) teach all of our kids to pitch (mechanics), 2) have each one pitch in a game, and 3) teach them to consistently throw strikes. Early in the season I called only pitches (fastball, changeup) because I was more focused on getting their mechanics correct. At the mid way point I started teaching location (inside, outside) and calling it in a game. This year at 10U Major, I really emphasized location (in, out, up & down) and teaching the kids the reason I call different pitches and locations. Towards the last third of the season the kids really understood how important an inside fastball really is! The battle I had with our kids this year was getting them to understand how important it is to get ahead in the count; it puts the pitcher at an advantage in an at bat and keeps pitch counts down.
2) It is a little harder for me to answer this one as I have only coached the 9's and 10's. I did pose this question to a good friend who was a former pitching coach of the EC 14U Astros. He explained to me that even at 14 he called all pitches/pickoffs from the dugout. From my playing experience I believe it was around 15 when our coach let us (battery) call a game with the coach calling in signals in certain situations. I think it has a lot to do with how comfortable the coach is with the battery in understanding hitters and situations to let them call a game.
I probably do things different than most but the bottom line is that I wanted to start the kids off right (proper mechanics) and then teach them HOW to pitch along the way.
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jdrew
30 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2010 : 16:37:16
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| gasbag, I understand what you are saying about kids not hitting their spots. The kids I have been working with don't always hit their spots and I'm not one to expect this from a 10U pitcher. There have been numerous times where I've called a pitch, the kid doesn't hit his spot and it gets roped. At 10U Major, most all the kids can hit a grooved fastball no matter what speed it is. I am trying to teach them to basically stay out of the center of the plate. For instance, in our last tourney of the year this past weekend most 0-2 pitches I called were "up & out". This happened 3 times and the results were pop-up, strikeout, and missed down in the zone. They will not always hit their spot (and I don't berate them; just remind them) and when they do I am pumped and make a big deal out of it with them. The thing I learned this year is that 7 out of 10 umps won't call anything on the black. I basically had to adjust in those situations by calling location (in, out & up) when our pitchers got into a favorable count (0-2, 1-2, etc.) |
Edited by - jdrew on 07/06/2010 20:53:08 |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 12:12:36
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I think as soon as a pitcher has a second pitch, pitches should start to be called so the pitcher and catcher are on the same page. I personally don't have a problem with a coach calling pitches at any age. What should happen though is that the coach should get with the pitcher and catcher after the inning and go over a particular pitch sequence to teach them why they called what they did. What about the batter made them call a particular pitch in a particular situation. How did you set the guy up for a particular pitch etc... The point is, that the pitcher and catcher learn from what the coach is doing.
You will find that at all levels, from rec ball, through HS, college and even MLB, coaches call pitches. I personally believe that a pitcher should have free reign to shake the coach off. If the pitcher throws the wrong pitch, coach should talk to him about why it was wrong and what the coach was trying to do. Every situation should be an opportunity to learn. If all the coach does is call pitches and never explain why he does what he does, or the pitcher is never given the opportunity to learn from his mistakes, the pitcher/catcher will never grow in his understanding about how to approach batters.
I will still talk with my son about certain batters and what he threw them after the game. I don't coach, but we will talk about strategies and mistakes and good sequences on the way home after he pitches. I want him to have a good understanding about how to approach things as he gets older. You never know everything. There is always opportunity to learn and grow. On both sides. Sometimes I will talk with him about a particular sequence and he will tell me why he threw a certain pitch and it makes sense. Sometimes he threw the right pitch, but missed his spot and he'll tell me that. Sometimes I will think the pitch he threw was inside (maybe because the batter pulled it) and ask why he did that. He'll tell me the pitch was a foot off the plate outside and the guy just hit it. Nothing you can do about that.
Bottom line, I think it's OK for coaches to call pitches, but the pitcher should be able to shake it off and the biggest thing is communication between the coach and pitcher/catcher. Especially at the younger ages. Let them learn about why they are doing what they are doing. |
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bambino_dad
119 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2010 : 17:39:47
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Surprising responses about hitting spots. At least in travel ball, from ages nine on up, if you're not hitting spots at least 80% of the time you'll either get lit up or start rallies with bases on balls. The games that are in double digits are usually due to not hitting spots.
Most staffs my son's pitched on wouldn't let you on the mound unless you were consistent at hitting corners. As somebody already said - the worst pitch in the world is down the middle - even on 3-0.
That being said, I've let kids call pitches only when the lead was insurmountable just to test their pitch sequence skills. Otherwise, wait 'til Varsity. |
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 12:54:09
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At least in travel ball, from ages nine on up, if you're not hitting spots at least 80% of the time
WOW - respectfully but totally disagree with that observation. I've yet to see any 9, 10 and most 11's hit their spots "80%" of the time at the most elite level's of travel ball. My observation is I haven't begun to see command develop until around the 12 and 13 age group but I'd also have to say with that, they'd be hard pressed to meet your 80% spots norm. I think from what I've seen/experienced it happens around 14/15. That's not to say I've seen every kid or every good kid pitch cause I'm certain I have not....I'm just sharing my experience of the ones I've seen over the years. |
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Calling Pitches
