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moccs
349 Posts |
 Posted - 06/25/2010 : 11:06:03
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| Does anyone have a chance against the EC braves? Sluggers can compete and maye be Gamers or Hplate. Titans are coming off an impressive championship themselves. Any Opinion? Is this the last tournament before everyone shuts down? |
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ecbinsider
318 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2010 : 11:46:07
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| Braves win this one fairly easy, they are somewhat shorthanded but are still head and shoulders better. I think the closest any of these teams has gotten is maybe 8 runs?? |
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biggin
174 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2010 : 13:56:57
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| Braves easy. Most teams are done except for world series. |
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ecbinsider
318 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2010 : 17:07:20
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| Looks like the Braves were a little off this weekend, had a close pool game with the EC Titans and lost the GA Grays in the semi's. Perhaps the players they lost to injury is bringing them back to the pack. Also, did they pick up the big pitcher from 643? I see him on their roster now, interesting. |
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10U dad
6 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2010 : 23:06:58
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looks like it wasn't a walk in the park for the
braves after all. I heard the Greys got beat by a AAA team in pool play. must have been a tough one. Too bad those Dogs weren't there for some comp. on the south side of town> |
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moccs
349 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2010 : 15:15:05
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| Looks like the injuries were more then enough to knock off the braves. Not to take anything away from the Grays who looked good in the last couple of tournaments and may have won anyway. |
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ecbtitans
10 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2010 : 19:24:05
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| Braves were only down one player-#8. They have also picked up two very talented kids. The Braves are more than just 2 kids. So don't sell the Grays accomplishment short. |
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ecbinsider
318 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2010 : 09:17:53
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ecbtitans, Not entirely true. The Braves are without #8 and also one of their shortstops (#23 iirc) to an arm injury. Both of these kids are very very good players and the kids they've picked up are good but it's very difficult to replace those two kids who are hurt.
With that said, it's still a very good accomplishment by the GA Grays. Holding down that line up to a couple of runs is short of amazing. Great job! |
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ecbtitans
10 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2010 : 22:37:56
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| #23- Had been out all season until this past weekend in which he played. |
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ecball
72 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 14:48:22
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Here are the facts on my team:
#23 has been out since the 3rd tourney of the season with an arm injury so we adjusted to playing without him a long time ago. He played fall ball and has never thrown a curve ball just in case you were wondering. And yes, we have kids that throw curves but he isn't one of them. He was going to be our ace and SS as he played there last year. He is just now getting back so it's hard to catch up at the plate after being out so long.
#8 is IMO the best all around player at ECB (maybe the state) so it was a big loss. It will take time to adjust the order and who plays where.
We did pick up two new players. They are strong in some areas and will improve in other areas. It's difficult to join our team this late in the year as we do things different than most so it's a big adjustment.
We tried to pitch some other kids and move around the new kids to see what they could do last weekend and it backfired. It's almost like starting over so we have to figure out what we have in a short period of time.
The Grays are an up and down team - it depends on which Grays team shows up. They have talent! Also, they have one really good pitcher and he threw well. He beat Stealth in the State Championship. They deserved to win! The Grays have good kids and good coaches. We didn't play well all weekend and got what we deserved. No excuses! |
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ERROR ON 6
47 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2010 : 18:59:25
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quote:
Originally posted by ecball
Here are the facts on my team:
#23 has been out since the 3rd tourney of the season with an arm injury so we adjusted to playing without him a long time ago. He played fall ball and has never thrown a curve ball just in case you were wondering. And yes, we have kids that throw curves but he isn't one of them. He was going to be our ace and SS as he played there last year. He is just now getting back so it's hard to catch up at the plate after being out so long.
#8 is IMO the best all around player at ECB (maybe the state) so it was a big loss. It will take time to adjust the order and who plays where.
We did pick up two new players. They are strong in some areas and will improve in other areas. It's difficult to join our team this late in the year as we do things different than most so it's a big adjustment.
We tried to pitch some other kids and move around the new kids to see what they could do last weekend and it backfired. It's almost like starting over so we have to figure out what we have in a short period of time.
The Grays are an up and down team - it depends on which Grays team shows up. They have talent! Also, they have one really good pitcher and he threw well. He beat Stealth in the State Championship. They deserved to win! The Grays have good kids and good coaches. We didn't play well all weekend and got what we deserved. No excuses!
"I actually think that everyone on this board is correct when it comes to this topic. Nobody knows for sure if curves hurt arms but I'm not teaching it and won't for several years. I believe the number of pitches thrown is just as important and that is why we limit our kids to 3 innings at a time and never over 60 pitches in a tourney. This way they are always fresh and don't have worry about injuries. Why risk it as the last poster said? None of this matters when they get older! We won the WS at 8U, which is a distant memory at this point. When these boys are 14, nobody will even remember or care which kid or team was good at 10U." Kirksy
Coach Kirksy, with you guys being one of, if not, the top team in the southeast, what made you change your mind on letting your kids throw breaking balls and pitch over 3 innings, I have got to watch at least couple of your games where your pitchers throw breaking balls and throw 5-6 innings at a time? Thanks for your input as a lot of teams try to duplicate your teams successful philosophy. |
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ecbbraves
113 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2010 : 11:09:08
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E6, you must really get around or are just at the right place at the right time because we have played 78 games this season and only 4 times have any of our pitchers gone 5 or 6 innings:
1) One kid went 6 innings at the TC Backyard Brawl at ATPP in a 6-1 win vs. Yard Dogs- he's 5th on our team in innings pitched
2) Another kid went 5 innings at the ECB Invitational in a 6-1 win vs. Stealth
3) Same kid went 5 innings in the TC States in Cumming in a 9-8 win vs. Sig Park in which another pitcher gave up all 8 runs over one inning pitched
4) A 3rd kid went 5 in the Battle in the South in TN in a 1-0 loss vs. Yard Dogs- he walked the 1st batter of the game and that kid scored.
So that's a total of 4 instances spread out over 3 different kids over nearly 80 games and a total of 3 runs allowed. If that's to be considered overuse, then 100% of the teams in our arena are guilty. Why wouldn't you mention the 65+ games where we have switched pitchers every one or two innings? |
Edited by - ecbbraves on 07/06/2010 13:00:38 |
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ecball
72 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2010 : 12:11:25
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I haven’t changed my mind on pitch counts or curves. If you had posted my entire post it said that I believe arm injuries occur from 3 things – year round baseball (wouldn’t suggest until at least 12U), over use in each tourney and curve balls. I’m not a doc or scientist but those are my opinions. The one kid that got hurt at the start of the season played year round and has never thrown a curve in his life. The other kid was my 5th pitcher and hadn’t thrown 25 innings the entire season and played CF 95% of the time.
As you know, you can read articles saying curves are fine and many other articles that say they are evil which is why that topic was in such debate at the beginning of the year. Nobody knows who is right. I don’t teach curves but I’m not opposed to them as nobody is 100% sure – which is why I said that everyone on the forum was right. The kids on my team that throw curves have pitching coaches and dads that have taught them this pitch – not me. If they have a curve, I make sure that it’s being thrown the correct way. If you want to know the coaches philosophy on a curve, go find his son and see if he throws one. This will tell you his philosophy without even asking the question.
Age is also the huge factor when considering when to start throwing a curve ball. Most people think these kids are all the same ages but that’s not the case. I have kids that are two years apart on my team. For the older ones that are now in middle school (7 kids on my team), this is about the time that most start to experiment with the pitch. They will be in high school in 3 years so I understand if parents want their kids to start throwing it but I still think you can wait and master the change up but that’s just my opinion.
As for pitch counts or innings pitched, my opinion hasn’t varied at all. You must have seen championship games where those kids hadn’t toed the rubber the entire tourney before going 5 or 6 in the last game. I always save my best two kids for the championship with the understanding that they will likely only go 3. If they happen to be mowing them down easily with limited pitches then they can go more but the goal is 3 innings. I don’t have one pitcher that is so much better than the others so there is no need to leave a kid out there to labor. They have all had their moments where other teams think they are the ace but it’s changed over the course of the year. I’ve had 4 different kids pitch in the championships of big tourneys. It’s happened three times this year in a championship game where a kid went 5 or 6 but he hadn’t pitched at all for a week and his pitch count was under 70 for the game. In the Global tourney, my best pitcher (at this time) never pitched a single inning as we lost before we got to ship. This allowed him to rest for two weeks between pitching.
As you will see next year, almost every kid will be throwing a curve ball – right or wrong. We have played about twenty 11U games and I’m not sure if we have faced two or three teams all year that didn’t throw a curve ball. We are going to the Elite 32 and I’m sure that almost every team will have multiple kids throwing them. It is what it is.
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jdrew
30 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 09:23:23
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ecball, I have to agree with you on pitch counts and curves. I saw an article about pitch counts that said a good rule of thumb is "age X 6 = pitch count". We did our best to adhere to this and only had a couple of occasions where we had a pitcher throw more than this. I wrestled with the curveball issue before the season began and decided against teaching it based on my experiences as a player. My dad was a good coach and teacher and didn't allow me to throw one until I was 13. I feel like this served me well throughout my playing career as I never had arm troubles. I don't know if teaching it is right or wrong at this age, I think a lot of it depends on the player. I personally believe at this age continuing to tweak their mechanics, teach throwing to location, and developing a solid changeup are the way to go. I had a few parents around mid-season ask about the curveball and I chose to teach the cut fastball. This was a gradual process and I used video analysis to make sure the kid's arm pronation is the same as a fastball.
Of our 12 kids this year, all 12 pitched in games (which is always a goal of mine). We basically had a regular rotation of 8 pitchers for tourneys with all of them getting about the same number of innings. We normally would throw our best early in pool play just to keep them sharp. Your philosophy on saving your best for the championship is interesting. I was able to see #5 throw against Stealth in the ECB Invitational and I thought that was the best pitching performance I saw ALL year! How do you keep these guys sharp before then? Bullpens? Side work between games?
As always, it is fun to watch your team play ball and play it the right way. Good luck at the Elite 32.
Jon Drew
EC Stars |
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ecball
72 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 13:52:32
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The kid you are referring to goes to his pitching coach on Wed. nights. The others throw one side session or two if we are off that weekend. About 40 pitches, sometimes a simulated innings/game. If we have been off or the pitcher didn’t get to pitch the weekend before, I will do the same thing you guys do and throw him for an inning in pool or early bracket to stay sharp. Most of my top kids are pretty good with command so it’s usually not an issue. It’s just staying within their mechanics and not changing anything from week to week.
I don’t teach the cutter yet because I think it’s just too difficult to master at this age. Mo is really the only big leaguer that has mastered the pitch and I would guess all 350 active big leaguers have tried so that tells us a lot. It’s not easy to throw it for strikes and command it! I have seen many kids try to throw it and most of the time they can’t locate it and it negatively impacts their fastball and then it’s big trouble. They get behind in counts and no longer have the gas to throw it by anyone. The issue I have seen is that you have to teach pressure points and kids at this age have trouble going back to a 4 seamer on the next pitch and they don’t get that 12-6 rotation on the fastball and thus lose velocity. I have seen this all year as their fastball turns into a spinner – in essence a hanging slider. We first saw this last year as one of the best two pitchers in the state at 8U started throwing a cutter at 9's. His fastball dropped in velocity and it became perfect speed to hit. If he would have stuck with his fastball and worked in a change up, we wouldn't have had much success against him. It's a shame because he was lights out.
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 14:58:39
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| I agree about the cutter....There is a reason most pitchers do not throw one. I have seen many many pitchers throw their fastball as just a spinning pitch and as you said that drastically changes the velocity of the fastball. I do think some boys don't throw the traditional curve and still get quite a bit of breaking movement. The football curve or little league curve is pretty good at 46 although we have had a little trouble converting that pitch to 50ft. I can tell you that if mine cannot throw that pitch at 50 he will be without a curve until he starts growing a little more. I don't know what does the most damage(pitch counts or curves) so I want to keep an eye on both. |
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jdrew
30 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 15:29:43
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| You're right in the fact that at this age (at any age) it can be difficult to master. As most know the cutter is supposed to have the speed a few MPH off the fastball and slight break (on the same plane as the fastball) to get it off the meat of the bat; roughly 3-6 inches. What I have found is that younger kids don't throw it hard enough for it to stay on the same plane or they are not throwing "enough of the ball" and it imparts more spin. I have not seen any negative impact on the fastball that you are speaking of because we don't overuse this pitch. I can see a negative impact if this is used as a primary or even a secondary pitch instead of the changeup. As for your last comment, as you know it's not always about talent, pitches, speed, etc.; I'm sure parents and attitude also factor in the equation. |
Edited by - jdrew on 07/07/2010 17:21:40 |
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