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Maroon_Tiger
19 Posts |
 Posted - 01/16/2018 : 19:29:17
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I've read messages on this board where they bemoan the fact that there are only "two" Major level teams in Georgia at the 12U level. This is complete nonsense. There are probably about 15 Major level teams in Georgia. Its just that they are split into three distinct levels. There are the "high" level Majors, the "mid" level Majors and then the "low" level Majors. But they are all Majors. Sort of like how Alabama, South Carolina and Vanderbilt all play football in the SEC, but at distinctly different levels.
When people talk about the "true" Majors what they really mean is, "how many High Majors are there?" That is a different question. There are probably about five High Majors that we can all mostly agree on. But first, what constitutes a High level Major? In my opinion, a High Major is a team that by the end of the season, can go to Florida, Texas or California and represent the state of Georgia well. These aren't teams that are going to go undefeated in Georgia. But they will enter most tournaments in Georgia thinking that if everything goes well, they can win it all.
But as we all know, being the best team in a tournament doesn't mean that you will win it. Factors come in to play. The Pool Play draw, weather conditions, strike zone, field dimensions and running up against a hot opposing pitcher can all impact how a team places in a tournament. However the High Majors think that if everything drops correctly, they have a chance to win any tournament that they enter. In my opinion those five are South Dekalb, CMSB Squeeze, Kennesaw, Cellblock and Gainesville.
Then there are the Mid-level Majors. What many don't understand until they play outside of Georgia, is that we play some really great baseball here. Our Mid Majors can go to Alabama, Tennessee and the Carolina's and represent us very well. Often, our Mid Majors will head to those states to win berths that they couldn't win in Georgia. But for some reason we think of our Mid Majors as not "true" Majors. This is a mistake. These teams would be among the best in the aforementioned states.
It remains to be seen who falls into this group. People on this board have mentioned teams like, Colt .45's, Astros, Yankees, Redstich, 6-4-3, Big Stix, Georgia Heat, etcetera. Five teams will rise. They will occasionally beat a High Major. They will occasionally lose to a Low Major. But they will be good teams. Mid Majors.
And I tell you what. If we had to send a team to represent Georgia in a one game, winner take all, we could do worse than to send one of our Mid Majors, Smartense. Smartense could beat ANY team in the nation in a one game playoff. The top of their rotation can be that dominant.
Then there are the Low Majors. People look down at these teams but they are still Major. These are the teams that may end up with a below .500 "In Class Record" but they are Major, just Low Major. These are the teams that are too strong to play Georgia AAA so they try their hardest every week against the big boys. You will walk past those Coaches as they are encouraging their kids after yet another loss to one of the big boys. But they are still Major. These teams will head to Ripken, or go to Panama Beach, Alabama or Cooperstown at the end of the season. And you know what, they will do really well in those tournaments. They are Low Majors, for Georgia.
Or I could be wrong about all of this.
What do you guys think? |
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RamblinWreck93
41 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2018 : 08:42:58
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| Great post Maroon. In fact, if you take a look at the 2017 MLB regular season standings, you will see the same thing. Last year, the MLB had three dominant teams that finished with a winning % greater than .600: Cleveland, Houston, and the Dodgers. I think these teams would be considered “High Major.” After this group, there were another 9 teams that finished with records greater than .500 and could be considered “Mid Major.” Then there were the rest; 18 teams with records below .500 and would be considered as “Low Major.” In fact, Detroit and SF finished below .400 so I guess they should have played AAA last year. :) |
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Maroon_Tiger
19 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2018 : 12:38:09
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Happy Snow Day "turntwo." Welcome aboard.
Out of town scores don't tell the complete story. I've noticed a few things about playing these so called AA teams when you go out of state.
1) Don't trust classifications, especially those not from GA or FLA.
I talked to a Dad from a AA team in Alabama at a tournament and asked him how in the world they got away with being classified as AA. He told me that they were from a rural area, I'm talking way out in the sticks. Due to that fact they always registered as low as they could get away with and then they would simply play Open or Major tournaments. See, if they were to classify as a Major, it would limit the amount of tournaments that they could play in, causing them to travel an inordinate amount of miles to play in their class.
2) Rosters change.
There are simply some teams that are AA when they only have their main players, but suddenly become much better teams when their part-time players show up. And the part timers seem to always show up when they hear that a team from the Atlanta metro / East Cobb area has entered the tournament.
3) That guy has that game.
Some of these teams are AAA because, as you mentioned, they don't have the pitching depth to be Major. But often they do have that one guy who can bring it. And if that guy is on, and also taking advantage of the home cooking (they have relationships with the umpires, you don't) an upset can happen.
4) Coach went out of town to try something new
Most of the time, Coaches go out of town for a reason. Some go to Florida early in the season to take a few lumps but get an early jump on things. Some Coaches are chasing a bid. Some may simply want to play different teams. Maybe the parents considers that tournament to be more of a beach vacation than a win at all costs scenario. Or maybe Coach is using that tournament to get other Pitchers some work.
5) Teams lose
If a top team goes out of town and comes back 1-3, something went wrong. But if a top team went 3-2 out of town, sometimes that just happens. It's baseball
One last thing...
I looked up the amount of teams that were registered as 11U last season and I think that it is safe to say that there will be around three hundred teams in Georgia playing 12U travel baseball this season. Two hundred of them are at the AA and All-Star level, leaving roughly one hundred teams playing the more competitive (AAA & Major) levels. I think that it is safe to say that 15 - 20 of that one hundred can be considered to play at some level of Major baseball, as my original post pointed out. But I am in the minority. Most people think that there are only around ten.
However, if the only criteria to determine whether a team is Major or not is if they can beat an MVP or a Shockwave, then we may not have any Major teams in Georgia. But I don't personally think that you have to be able to beat those teams to be considered Major. |
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Maroon_Tiger
19 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2018 : 17:10:27
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I think that it is really tough to look at one tournament and try to determine a teams worth but the 11U SNIT from March 2017 is as good of a test case as you are going to get so lets dig in and examine the Georgia High Majors versus the field.
There were 25 teams in that tournament. The favorites were the Gamers, Five Star, Shockwave, Ninth Inning and Cellblock.
There was also a team called Team Xtreme that people didn't really know much about, even though they had the most "Ranking Points" at that point in the season. Minion had lost key players to a rival in North Carolina. Gainesville was solid, but Kennesaw was at that point in their season when they weren't scoring runs yet. And in early March we weren't aware of just how good South Dekalb was turning out to be.
So lets skip to the end. Team Xtreme wins the tourney. But remember, when everyone else was being told to put away their Demarini's, Xtreme was using the -5 and the -3 versions that weekend and they were crushing the ball. No excuses, just facts. Shockwave was the runner ups. There is no reason to revisit rumors and innuendo but those at the tournament remember the controversy. Five Star and Cellblock also made the semifinals.
So now this is just my opinion, but after watching all of those team play, I thought that Five Star and the Gamers were the top two in that tournament. Five Star played Team Xtreme with that bat disadvantage and lost to them 4-3 in the semifinals. Like you mentioned, Cellblock threw the kithchen sink at the Gamers in the quarterfinals but didn't have anything left for the the semifinals against Shockwave. Who knows, maybe the Gamers advance to the finals if they get by Cellblock but we will never know.
So while Georgia ends up without a team in the finals lets go over that list again. Seven of the teams in that quarterfinal were Team Xtreme, Shockwave, Five Star, Cellblock, Ninth Inning, South Dekalb and the Gamers. All High Majors.
If you had that exact same tournament draw this March at 12U, would you really be surprised if those seven minus the Gamers were all in the quarterfinals again? You could just add Kennesaw, Gainesville or someone else that we don't see coming yet, to round out the field.
Georgia's High Majors have always fared well by the end of the season. The Yard Dogs were perennial finalists in the Elite 32 and the Gamers and Wolfpack would also always represent well in Orlando. So yes, our High Majors are comparable to other high level baseball states.
But here is the real secret. This is why our teams have a distinct disadvantage. Even though the metro area is huge population wise, we also have an inordinate amount of teams. Think about this. At 10U we had the Gamers, OTC, Cardinals, Yard Dogs and Wolfpack all in that McDonough/Conyers/South Atlanta area. That radius around Lexington would all belong to Shockwave. That radius around Jacksonville Beach would all belong to Five Star. We were dividing that up among five Majors.
So until we start to eliminate and consolidate teams, Georgia will always be at a disadvantage. But I personally believe that it has been better for us to have more avenues for top talent to play than to have less. Once we get to 13U, maybe that starts to change... |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2018 : 10:06:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Maroon_Tiger
But here is the real secret. This is why our teams have a distinct disadvantage. Even though the metro area is huge population wise, we also have an inordinate amount of teams. Think about this. At 10U we had the Gamers, OTC, Cardinals, Yard Dogs and Wolfpack all in that McDonough/Conyers/South Atlanta area. That radius around Lexington would all belong to Shockwave. That radius around Jacksonville Beach would all belong to Five Star. We were dividing that up among five Majors.
So until we start to eliminate and consolidate teams, Georgia will always be at a disadvantage. But I personally believe that it has been better for us to have more avenues for top talent to play than to have less. Once we get to 13U, maybe that starts to change...
Great thorough write up... The only thing I'll speak about the bat issue is: everyone has a choice. Xtreme swinging -5 or -3 BBCORs, isn't 'unfair'. Every team could buy those bats and swing them...
Now, onto the section I quoted... As I agreed in my previous reply, outside of our states top 2-5 "elite majors", I'm not sure the rest are truly majors... You kinda proved my point. You listed Gamers, Cellblock, Tribe, 9th Inning... All were elite majors. Really, you're only missing who? Gainesville? To round out our Elite teams from last year.
My 'argument' lies within the rest... The 'mid' to 'low' "majors of GA... Are they truly "majors"? Sure they may have 1-2 good arms or bats, but I don't think they are. I think our 'mid' and 'low' majors are nothing more than AAA teams, especially compared to surrounding states. And why? You nailed it. The number of teams. Dad's think they could do better, or because they want their son to be the big fish in a small pond. Egos if you will.
And you're right. 13U things start paring down. Let's look at the age group above us. 3 quality major teams just at East Cobb (Astros, Yankees, Tigers). Now 1 (Astros). You've gone from multiple 'majors' (at all levels), down to essentially 4 teams (Astros, GA Jackets, Cougars, and MCBA). As the age groups go up, the number of 'elite' teams diminish or combine. That's why you only hear of: Jackets, Team Elite, Astros, and 643 at the older age groups. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2018 : 12:31:58
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quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
quote:
Originally posted by Maroon_Tiger
But here is the real secret. This is why our teams have a distinct disadvantage. Even though the metro area is huge population wise, we also have an inordinate amount of teams. Think about this. At 10U we had the Gamers, OTC, Cardinals, Yard Dogs and Wolfpack all in that McDonough/Conyers/South Atlanta area. That radius around Lexington would all belong to Shockwave. That radius around Jacksonville Beach would all belong to Five Star. We were dividing that up among five Majors.
So until we start to eliminate and consolidate teams, Georgia will always be at a disadvantage. But I personally believe that it has been better for us to have more avenues for top talent to play than to have less. Once we get to 13U, maybe that starts to change...
Great thorough write up... The only thing I'll speak about the bat issue is: everyone has a choice. Xtreme swinging -5 or -3 BBCORs, isn't 'unfair'. Every team could buy those bats and swing them...
Now, onto the section I quoted... As I agreed in my previous reply, outside of our states top 2-5 "elite majors", I'm not sure the rest are truly majors... You kinda proved my point. You listed Gamers, Cellblock, Tribe, 9th Inning... All were elite majors. Really, you're only missing who? Gainesville? To round out our Elite teams from last year.
My 'argument' lies within the rest... The 'mid' to 'low' "majors of GA... Are they truly "majors"? Sure they may have 1-2 good arms or bats, but I don't think they are. I think our 'mid' and 'low' majors are nothing more than AAA teams, especially compared to surrounding states. And why? You nailed it. The number of teams. Dad's think they could do better, or because they want their son to be the big fish in a small pond. Egos if you will.
And you're right. 13U things start paring down. Let's look at the age group above us. 3 quality major teams just at East Cobb (Astros, Yankees, Tigers). Now 1 (Astros). You've gone from multiple 'majors' (at all levels), down to essentially 4 teams (Astros, GA Jackets, Cougars, and MCBA). As the age groups go up, the number of 'elite' teams diminish or combine. That's why you only hear of: Jackets, Team Elite, Astros, and 643 at the older age groups.
Uh no, missing a few there. The landscape is changing, however, one thing will always be the same. Major is Major is Major. There is not an elite major and a low major. They can call themselves that if they like but low major is AAA, and they know it.
As you get older you are more likely to have major players, and not so much major teams. Yes there are some major teams, but most kick butt teams are made up of national major players. They don't even practice together, they come together for games. |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2018 : 13:23:55
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
There is not an elite major and a low major. They can call themselves that if they like but low major is AAA, and they know it.
My point exactly. |
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4woodbats
15 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2018 : 19:04:38
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quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
[quote]Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
There is not an elite major and a low major. They can call themselves that if they like but low major is AAA, and they know it.
My point exactly.
I love hearing about this stuff. On any given day any MLB team could beat another team.
In Majors that's definitely not the case until the coaches quit kidding themselves and lying to the parents that they are a Majors level team. Unfortunately that won't happen until they all get weeded out by the age of 14 then you kid will be so far behind that they just quit.
MLB then milb AAA, AA, A.
Major, AAA, AA ,A. If a team has no chance at battling a so-called top major team then the team should probably find common ground at a lower level.
Unfortunately most parents don't know what they're truly looking at.
How to know if the coach is teaching the right thing.
What a real good practice might look like. Are they teaching the right Foot work, cuts, fundamentals, approach, time management, batting tips, pitch calling etc. Then you have to rely on the same people to tell you what level they play at.
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RUSemiPro
95 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2018 : 23:37:08
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quote:
Originally posted by 4woodbats
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
[quote]Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
There is not an elite major and a low major. They can call themselves that if they like but low major is AAA, and they know it.
My point exactly.
I love hearing about this stuff. On any given day any MLB team could beat another team.
In Majors that's definitely not the case until the coaches quit kidding themselves and lying to the parents that they are a Majors level team. Unfortunately that won't happen until they all get weeded out by the age of 14 then you kid will be so far behind that they just quit.
MLB then milb AAA, AA, A.
Major, AAA, AA ,A. If a team has no chance at battling a so-called top major team then the team should probably find common ground at a lower level.
Unfortunately most parents don't know what they're truly looking at.
How to know if the coach is teaching the right thing.
What a real good practice might look like. Are they teaching the right Foot work, cuts, fundamentals, approach, time management, batting tips, pitch calling etc. Then you have to rely on the same people to tell you what level they play at.
In my opinion, there is not much difference between Major and AAA+ other than depth of pitching staffs. But the larger question is what does it really matter at 9U, 10U, 11U, 12U, 13U etc???? IT DOESN'T, yeah these MAJORS teams may win some more plastic ware (trophies) but are all those kids really getting the reps and having FUN. I would argue that #8,9,10,11,12 on those MAJOR rosters would be better off on a AAA+ team being a contributor than a role player on the loaded MAJOR team.
My Opinion is anything under 13/14U, it's just bragging rights with the parents.... Oh my kid plays MAJORS and won these tournaments, and yours plays AAA, etc...
The key is to develop and have our kids play the game as long as possible, beyond Cooperstown at 12U and into Middle School. High School JV and Varsity. If we are lucky they will play into College and beyond if they still love the game, have avoided injury and still can perform at the level needed. This game is a difficult and cruel game we shouldn't make it any more difficult as parents and coaches. Don't Worry about what level and chest thumping you can do as a parent, lets keep these kids playing and the game alive for future generations.
I am not knocking any MAJOR team out there and yes there are more than 2 in the state of GA. In fact I think a good bit of AAA+ teams in GA are better than MAJORS in other states, my only comment is who cares what the classification is, the key is developing talent while having fun and enjoying the game so they continue on. If we are not doing that WE as Coaches, Parents and Adults need to take a hard look at what WE are doing.
I'll get off my soap box for now, as we all know the ECB ASTROS and NORTHSIDE Narwhals are the Shiznit and anyone else is just chump change.... |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2018 : 09:06:34
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| SemiPro, I agree. I've posted before I don't see the point in joining Majors prior to 14u. I'm still good with that assessment as long as the kids are playing competitively. I just watched another season of high school tryouts and the kids that stayed in rec ball and AA didn't make the JV team. AAA is a great place to excel and be a key player while you are waiting to see if you have the skills for true major. |
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allstars
24 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2018 : 21:54:49
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I disagree, for I believe if you are seeing the best pitching every weekend and playing against the best competition you are growing in ways you cant if you are playing AAA.
That is of course if you are playing quality time on the Majors team.
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2018 : 07:10:06
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quote:
Originally posted by allstars
I disagree, for I believe if you are seeing the best pitching every weekend and playing against the best competition you are growing in ways you cant if you are playing AAA.
That is of course if you are playing quality time on the Majors team.
Having lived through this I can say without a doubt that, at 14u and below, a major level player will play almost every inning on a AAA team. That is invaluable. Also, you will see more mistakes than on a Major level team. Seeing the variations in where the ball can go will also make that kid a better player, and the reps are just invaluable.
Pitching is a complicated subject. From what I have seen the Majors team has 1-2 super stud pitchers and 3-7 quality AAA pitchers. The AAA teams have 1-5 AAA pitchers and 1-4 AA pitchers. So the AAA kid is still seeing quality pitching it's just the depth at Majors that is different. Are they seeing the 75mph 12u kid, probably not, but they are seeing several 67-72mph kids and that's enough to stay on their game and excel.
There is also the added bonus that a AAA team roster is around 12 kids, whereas the average Major 12u roster is around 15-17. Again, more reps for the AAA kid. So, does the average 12u kid get better by playing 3 innings against top competition, or 6 innings against pretty good competition? That's for every parent/player to determine. For us it was playing more and being that clutch player that the team counted on, waiting for his body to grow and get stronger, rigidly controlling his pitch counts (which in my experience a AAA coach was more willing to bend to my wishes than a major coach), and I have zero regrets with how it worked out :- ) |
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morrsco
55 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2018 : 09:17:20
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| Lorenzo Cain signed the richest contract so far this MLB off-season. He didn't play organized baseball until the 10th grade. I have a hard time believing that playing on a Major team versus a AAA team at 12U makes much of a difference in the long run. The best athletes are going to eventually rise to the top. Parents are probably better off just encouraging their kid to play multiple sports to promote overall athleticism than trying to get on a high level major team at 12. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2018 : 07:08:12
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quote:
Originally posted by morrsco
Lorenzo Cain signed the richest contract so far this MLB off-season. He didn't play organized baseball until the 10th grade. I have a hard time believing that playing on a Major team versus a AAA team at 12U makes much of a difference in the long run. The best athletes are going to eventually rise to the top. Parents are probably better off just encouraging their kid to play multiple sports to promote overall athleticism than trying to get on a high level major team at 12.
Perhaps a difference in the parents bank account  |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2018 : 10:18:58
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by morrsco
Lorenzo Cain signed the richest contract so far this MLB off-season. He didn't play organized baseball until the 10th grade. I have a hard time believing that playing on a Major team versus a AAA team at 12U makes much of a difference in the long run. The best athletes are going to eventually rise to the top. Parents are probably better off just encouraging their kid to play multiple sports to promote overall athleticism than trying to get on a high level major team at 12.
Perhaps a difference in the parents bank account
True. If playing Major below 12u meant that a kid will not be a stud, then a lot of kids should not even waste their time playing. It's an ego thing for the coaches and parents now. Just wait until puberty hits. Has already hit for quite a few. Give it some time unless they want youth to be the highlight of their kids baseball career. |
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md1234321
38 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2018 : 22:57:41
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| According to the June tryout posts, there are 100 major, high AAA level teams. Some folks fall for it and join these teams. Then in the fall, they play AA tourneys. Now in the spring, they are winning/contending in AA tourneys, but get beat more often than not they play solid AAA teams. The same teams will claim major level in June this year. Good stuff. Wish parents would do research instead of looking at all the pictures of teams with trophies, although those trophies were won at a much lower level than advertised |
Edited by - md1234321 on 03/26/2018 23:20:08 |
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