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therealist
25 Posts |
 Posted - 05/25/2010 : 09:48:45
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Based on the results this year, seems to be more parity than in years past. You still have your top teams, but not a handful of dominant teams that are seemingly unbeatable. Does this usually happen around 11U? Is the top talent spread across more teams or are more boys just getting better because of the level of play across the southeast? Any thoughts?
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2010 : 10:32:27
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I think you are onto something for sure. Take the Bandits as an example. Theoretically, they have upgraded their team from last year but have more losses in our age group so far this year than we did all of last year. I think the extra 4 feet on the pitching mound has a lot to do with it.
As an example, the mound is 8.6% farther back than at 10 years old. If a kid was throwing 60mph from 46' he would have to throw 65+ at 50' to be as effective. I just don't see that kind of increase in speed in that short a period of time. My son, for example, is throwing 10mph faster now than he did when he was 9. That's almost a 3 year difference in age as he just turned 12 this month. |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2010 : 11:10:29
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| Papa also thinks that the realist has hit the nail on the head. The pitching distance is certainly a factor but there are other things that results in more parity. Take the kids themselves for example. We have found out that the same kids our pitching was throwing fastballs by last year are not getting through at this age resulting in a lot more hits than last year. The light is beginning to get turned on in the kids head more often than at 10 and they appear to be learning the game and this is just the reason we are all playing elite baseball. It is a fun thing to watch the kids begin to understand what is being taught to them by some excellent coaching in this division. Lynn Haven was ranked #1 by travel ball select and they got beat 3 times this weekend. Bandits were ranked #4 and got beat 7-6 this weekend by a very good team. MBA is ranked #2 and has been beaten several times this year. Oklahoma Rays at #2 have been beaten several times. It's like playing in the SEC in football. If you can get through this league undefeated then you can consider yourself a powerhouse. There are many more losses ahead for all of the top teams and you can quote Papa on that statement. |
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hutch
7 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2010 : 13:01:10
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| MBA is ranked #3 and has lost 2 games to 11 year old teams since Jan. If you include the fall season then yes they have lost to several teams. I see the point you are trying to make however comparing Football to Baseball is like comparing apples to oranges. You play a lot more games in baseball than football. I think you can be a powerhouse in baseball with out an undefeated season. It is unusual to have an undefeated season in baseball at any level. Just my opinion but I've been wrong before. |
Edited by - hutch on 05/25/2010 14:05:24 |
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baseballdoc
73 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2010 : 13:27:56
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Baseballpapa - you're a wise man and I agree with your assessment. Since I personally like to review and analyze our losses much more than our wins, I would like to add something that is also important. As you know, the number of losses is also highly dependent on the competition a team faces. As an example: MBA Pride's 11u has a record of 39-7 against teams in their age group. Of the 7 losses, all were against teams ranked in the top ten nationally. Three of those losses were to the Pembroke Lakes Bulldogs [2-0, 6-5, 3-2]. Of the three losses to the Pembroke Lakes team, two were in a wood bat tournament on the same day. As a proof of parity, we have also beaten the Pembroke Lakes Bulldogs 3 times and by wider margins. MBA lost to the Bay Bombers 7-5 while participating in the first tournament as a team [with a much different roster]. Unfortunately, we have not had the opportunity for a rematch. We lost to Tampa Boltz 2-1 [we were beaten by one of our current players who not only pitched the whole game but also hit a game winning HR]. Since then we have beaten the Tampa Boltz every time without too much difficulty. As you are well aware, we lost in Atlanta to Lynn Haven 7-3. We have not had the opportunity to play them again but we had already beaten them 9-2 at the Super NIT in Disney World. Yes, although we have been beaten "several times this year", those losses were to very competitive teams. Yes, I know they are still losses, but they are not totally unexpected and unexplainable. The higher the quality of the opposition, the greater the chance of losing. I guess that is where Power Points in the USSSA ranking system comes into play. Since we plan to continue facing tough opposition, more losses are a possibility. I'm sure that is true for the Bandits also. Of one thing I am certain, there is no 11u team in this country that can go undefeated as long as they face competitive teams.
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MBA is ranked #2 and has been beaten several times this year. Oklahoma Rays at #2 have been beaten several times. It's like playing in the SEC in football. If you can get through this league undefeated then you can consider yourself a powerhouse. There are many more losses ahead for all of the top teams and you can quote Papa on that statement.
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LonghornPapa6
13 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2010 : 13:58:57
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| PARITY AT THIS LEVEL IS A VERY GOOD REASON FOR THE ADDITIONAL LOSSES BY GOOD TEAMS, BUT WINS AND LOSSES WILL ALSO INCREASE BECAUSE OF THE ADDED AMOUNT OF GAMES BEING PLAYED IN SEARCH OF USSSA POINTS AT THIS LEVEL. WE ARE ALSO ALL SEARCHING FOR THE BEST COMPETITION WE CAN FIND TO PLAY TO BUILD OUR POWER RANKINGS, AS WELL. FOR EXAMPLE: OUR LONGHORNS WILL HAVE PLAYED IN 17 TOP TOURNAMENTS IN 4 DIFFERENT STATES AT THE END OF THIS YEAR. MLB HAS A 162 GAME SCHEDULE AND THE TOP TEAMS GO TO THE PLAYOFFS WITH A 500-600 WINNING PERCENTAGE... THAT'S BECAUSE OF THE PARITY IN PRO BASEBALL. I LOVE THE SEC FOOTBALL COMPARISON BY BASEBALL PAPA...THE SEC CONFERENCE IS THE BEST IN THE COUNTRY BECAUSE OF THE PARITY WITHING THE CONFERENCE. IN SUMMARY, THE MORE GAMES YOU PLAY AGAINST THE BEST COMPETITION YOU CAN FIND TO PLAY, WILL ALWAYS RESULT IN MORE WINS, AND LOSSES....THAT'S THE DEFINITION OF PARITY!!! HOOKEM HORNS!!! HUNGRY AGAIN....SEE YOU ALL IN DISNEY!!! |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2010 : 22:30:08
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I think that we have finally found something that we all agree on. There are many great teams out there and I think that it is a good thing that we are all aware that there will begin to be more losses due to the schedule we are all playing. It doesn't get any easier for the Bandits this weekend with the Memorial Day Invitational with at least 5 states sending teams.
I was not really trying to compare football to baseball other than the parity issue and using the SEC was only meant to state that when you play great teams week after week that you will suffer more losses than someone that does not play the same type schedule.
I didn't know that MBA Pride had lost 7 games this season but doc explains the reasons well. You can't play the best week after week and not lose because baseball is not set up that way. It is so obvious that Mr. Doubleday did not envision many undefeated teams when he invented the game of baseball.
Good Luck to all of you guys. |
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coachtony
236 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2010 : 10:05:20
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I agree, Papa, baseball was never intended to have undefeated teams through an entire season. The older the boys get, the more they will understand that.
This brings me to one of my favorite quotes in the history of baseball.....
"No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference."
— Tommy Lasorda
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hutch
7 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2010 : 12:42:57
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| That quote sums it up well. Awesome!! Good Luck to the Bandits and the rest of the teams this weekend. |
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therealist
25 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2010 : 14:47:11
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| If this trend of parity continues, do you see more elite players trying to come together at an earlier age. You generally do not see it until 13u/14u in Georgia. These elite teams have been traditionally been based out of East Cobb, but I feel there are several programs that could make this work if that is what they wanted to do. Great programs(coaches) can attract the top talent. A perfect example this year is MBA. |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2010 : 15:47:50
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| Look closer to home. The Roadrunners seem to be building an elite program with the teams getting younger and younger every year. 643 now has teams in multiple age groups with some of the best coaching in the metro area and each year East Cobb appears to be getting a little more diluted in their talent base. MBA is a prime example of a regional trend with the players coming from not only a larger geographical area but with stronger players top to bottom. I truly believe that as the kids get older that each year more games might be lost but I also believe that this is not a bad thing. A lot of the best lessons in baseball and the best way to identify problem areas are found in the losses. |
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Coach D
167 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2010 : 16:50:33
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I do not post much , but I had to jump in here. I understand Papas points , my question is to Baseball Doc . Why are you so defensive, every time I see someone say something about MBA losing a game , you always have an excuse posted within the minute. And you just cant let go of the fact that you have lost games .Trust me I am very intense and I hate losing as much as the next guy, but you really come off as defensive when you make excuses and reasons for all your losses. I dont think I have heard you once say you lost because the other team was better that day. I say take a step back and enjoy yourself. |
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G-Man
326 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2010 : 19:03:37
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MBA is not filled with all the Elite kids. MBA just has all the biggest kids. There are kids in that Florida area that are better than several of the MBA players but they are not early bloomers. What I mean is there are kids who are better hitters and better at specific defensive positions than MBA has. So I think you are a little off base using them as an example of having all the elite players in an area.
Dont get me wrong. MBA has a very good team and is well coached when MM is around. They by far have the most pitching of any team in that area but not the best. They have some very good hitters, but not the best. They do however have the best power hitters in the area. MBA is one of the best teams in the country but a better team from that area could be put together.
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Originally posted by therealist
If this trend of parity continues, do you see more elite players trying to come together at an earlier age. You generally do not see it until 13u/14u in Georgia. These elite teams have been traditionally been based out of East Cobb, but I feel there are several programs that could make this work if that is what they wanted to do. Great programs(coaches) can attract the top talent. A perfect example this year is MBA.
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baseballdoc
73 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2010 : 23:23:28
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I'm sorry you feel that way, but I can't help it if I have great confidence in our team. At the start of every game, I feel our team is superior to the opponent. Sometimes we lose but most times we win. When we lose, I try to analyze and come up with reasons or factors which contributed to the loss. If we came across a team which was far superior to ours, and we lost, I would admit it. This has yet to happen. Now, there are several teams in this country which could fit that category; I just haven't seen them yet. That doesn't mean I won't.
I thought my analysis of our 7 losses was very informative and even insightful. However, this could be to personal bias.
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Originally posted by Coach D
I do not post much , but I had to jump in here. I understand Papas points , my question is to Baseball Doc . Why are you so defensive, every time I see someone say something about MBA losing a game , you always have an excuse posted within the minute. And you just cant let go of the fact that you have lost games .Trust me I am very intense and I hate losing as much as the next guy, but you really come off as defensive when you make excuses and reasons for all your losses. I dont think I have heard you once say you lost because the other team was better that day. I say take a step back and enjoy yourself.
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2010 : 08:33:27
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| I have met and made a good friend and love the passion that baseball doc has for the game of baseball and right after every loss I feel the same as he described and tend to replay every out up to the point of making excuses to why we lost. I have gotten too old for that now although I must admit that it takes a good 24 hours before I begin to understand that the game has taught me another lesson. One thing that the game of baseball will teach you sooner or later is humility. Tom Hanks said that "There is no crying in baseball" and Papa adds to that and says that "There is no excuses to be made that will sound like anything other than an excuse." I agree with Doc and promise you all that MBA has one of the very best teams in the nation and they have proved it on the field but for 7 times this year they were not the best team that day and Papa knows just how they feel and all of you do too unless someone out there is undefeated. If there is still an undefeated Select, Elite, Major 11 year old team out there Papa will hand you the crown if you give me a shout. |
Edited by - baseballpapa on 05/27/2010 09:01:12 |
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hutch
7 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2010 : 13:43:52
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G-Man,
You have said in earlier posts that MBA had not been tested because they had not played any elite 12U major teams. They have recently competed very well in the 12U major division with impressive performances in the 12U Tallahassee SNIT & with their 3rd place finish in the 12U NE FL State Tournament.
What are your thoughts now that MBA has competed at the 12U major level?
MBA does have some big players but what does that have to do with their success? Remember baseball is a skill sport.
Are you saying when MM is not coaching MBA they are not coached well? Keep in mind MBA has won the majority of their tournaments with out MM coaching. |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2010 : 15:00:03
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| hutch is right on about one thing and that is that size counts but very little in the overall picture of determining if the kid can play the game well. Perfect illustration is the Georgia Bandits that have always looked up to their opponent but have always had a lot of success against the bigger and stronger players although Papa will be the first to admit that it seems to be getting harder and harder every year. |
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LonghornPapa6
13 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2010 : 13:13:22
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| I'll take speed and defense over size and power every time...at any level. In my experience as a coach, speed and defense has always been able to win by out running and out playing the opponent that is always looking for the long ball to win it for them!!! |
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