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mdschert
47 Posts |
 Posted - 01/01/2012 : 22:20:49
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| Would like to view opinions on the differences between a 12u major level pitcher vs AAA. Please include types of pitches, speed, accuracy etc. How many major level pitchers are on a major team? Etc, etc |
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BangTheBox
121 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2012 : 16:31:51
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MD,
In North and Central Florida locally the major teams rely on the curve ball and a good command of the zone. I do not agree with the former but we cannot stick our heads in the sand and pretend it will not occur. You tend to see the curves from arrogant coaches who want to win at all costs or parents who allow the kids to throw them. Most of the Major teams we see have one solid Major talent, one or two boarderline Maj/AAA and the remainder inning feeders.
For the most part there are teams and coaches that do not see the true Major talent throughout the year so it is hard to get a handle on how good thier pitching is until they get into the later or better tourneys. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2012 : 23:20:04
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I've seen the opposite here in North Georgia. Most major pitchers tend to look more like what the OP stated, great change of speed, location, power. Some mix in the junk, but more as an out pitch or a 3rd/4th pitch. On occasion you'll see a major team or two who relies on junk as their primary strength. I will say that when you're talking about the nationally ranked major teams, you'll see alot more junk than from the typical major teams you'll face week in and week out.
I see more of the "junk" pitchers coming from the AAA/AA teams around here. Trying to get outs however they can. Relying on the curve that uncle Billy taught them because they don't have the command of speed and location. I see a much higher percentage of junk from these guys than the majors.
quote:
Originally posted by BangTheBox
MD,
In North and Central Florida locally the major teams rely on the curve ball and a good command of the zone. I do not agree with the former but we cannot stick our heads in the sand and pretend it will not occur. You tend to see the curves from arrogant coaches who want to win at all costs or parents who allow the kids to throw them. Most of the Major teams we see have one solid Major talent, one or two boarderline Maj/AAA and the remainder inning feeders.
For the most part there are teams and coaches that do not see the true Major talent throughout the year so it is hard to get a handle on how good thier pitching is until they get into the later or better tourneys.
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mdschert
47 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2012 : 08:56:21
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| Over 250 reads and only one opinion? Bang - what criteria do you put on a major level pitcher besides throwing a curve? How fast can a major level pitcher consistently pitch? What should his target accuracy % be ie. when an inside pitch is called how often does he make it? On another subject - From the recent 10 yr research study, throwing curve balls are ok. Overuse causes injury not curve balls. Does everyone agree with bang that only one major level pitcher is required for a major level team? I really thought this would generate interest, oh well. My opinion, a major level pitcher throws consistently over 60 mph for fastballs. Must have a working change-up. Third pitch has movement whether a curve or knuckle curve. Must have a 50% location accuracy and 75% strike accuracy. Must have the intangibles too. Come on Readers, don't be afraid to share your opinion |
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kcndfan
80 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2012 : 12:17:53
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| Heart. Heart and belief in yourself and your teammates is what makes the difference at this age. The ability to stand in there with the tying run at 2nd base and still make your pitch and let it go. No aiming it or taking some off to try and throw a strike. Seen guys with almost overpowering stuff who can't do it and get beat consistently and guys with just above average stuff that can and get the win consistently. JMO. |
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JABA
16 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2012 : 14:25:04
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| Heart, belief and a 50 MPH fastball aren't going to get it done at the major level, at least from what I've seen. A major level pictcher throws mid 60's to low 70's and has good control of some type of off speed pitch - curveball, changeup, knuckleball, whatever. If he doesn't have control of the fastball, then he's not a pitcher to begin with................. |
Edited by - JABA on 01/03/2012 14:37:09 |
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RACGOFAR
208 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2012 : 14:55:36
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There are plenty of AAA pitchers who could pitch Majors and vice versa. Throwing hard is great but if you can't throw strikes it doesn't really matter ow hard its coming in to a good hitter. A pitch is not a pitch until a pitcher can locate it where he wants at least 60% of the time. Until then he is just a thrower. There are definitely way more throwers than pitchers in Major and AAA at just anout every age group.
My definition of a 12U major level pitcher is a kid who can: 1) Throw first pitch strikes >60%, 2) has command of all his pitches, especially his fastball; 3) his change/offspeed pitch is at least 7-10 mph below his fastball speed; 4) He can control the running game with good pickoff moves and by changing his rhythm and pace and still locate pitches; 5) He is in the right place for backups, cutoffs and balls hit to the right side; and most importantly, 6) He maintains a mental coolness, has a commanding presence on the mound, and only worries about the next pitch.
The kids who really start to separate themselves on the mound from the rest of the pack have learned to study the hitters for clues to their weaknesses. Greg Maddux always said that his best scouting report was the batter's last swing. That is very, very true at this age.
They also begin to have superior game awareness and are not just throwing a pitch because that is what was called by the coach. They realize that after walking a batter with less than 1 out, they need a ground ball up the middle and they focus on keeping the ball down to get it. They also realize that as they get older, pretty much everybody in the lineup can hit a straight fastball, even if its in the upper velocity range for the age group. So they start to work in a two seam fast ball that moves or cuts and they also focus on speeding the bat up and slowing it down, adjusting the hitters' feet and eye level by going in and out and up and down in the zone where appropriate. They realize that to pitch late into a game, they have to let the hitters hit the ball and attack the strike zone to keep their pitch count down. And I believe the biggest separation comes from between the ears. The best pitchers at any level of the game simply don't melt down under pressure or when things don't go their way. They accept failure as a necessary component of competing as a pitcher and deal with it in positive and productive ways. |
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kcndfan
80 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2012 : 16:19:28
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quote:
Originally posted by JABA
Heart, belief and a 50 MPH fastball aren't going to get it done at the major level, at least from what I've seen. A major level pictcher throws mid 60's to low 70's and has good control of some type of off speed pitch - curveball, changeup, knuckleball, whatever. If he doesn't have control of the fastball, then he's not a pitcher to begin with.................
JABA,
Obviously you have to have some sort of talent or you probably aren't a good AAA pitcher either. I have watched many a pitcher in my years at the travel level throw hard and not smart. Give me a 57mph fastball with guts and heart versus a 67mph pitcher without. Some pitchers just battle and win. |
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BangTheBox
121 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2012 : 17:23:44
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RACGOFAR, You took the words right out of my fingers well put. Here is my now modified post as you said it much better:
Mdschert, Just stating what we see with the teams being so spread out. One team does not have all the pitching talent. This is good because it requires, even the best coaches, to develop talent not just acquire it. I am basing this on my observations. I still do not subscribe to the study. My theory based on years of coaching at all levels is it is a combination of overuse and improper mechanics that causes issues. An orthopedic physician with a child on my team last year stated that it is dependent on the kid. Meaning that some will injure themselves by throwing the right way and some will not throwing the wrong way. The makeup of everyone is different and you just never know just take all the precautions possible. This goes for curves and mechanics as a whole. His recommendation is to allow the kid to throw it when they can shave or get to High school whichever comes first. As a past HS coach we taught many a player/pitcher to throw curves with great success. To be successful at it you do not have to throw it at 10, 11 or even 12. I take it based on your user name you are a physician.
Kcndfan, As for a 50 MPH fastball and heart getting it done at the major level? Late last spring, I personally witnessed a slight pitcher from Florida confound two perennial Major GA teams with mediocre speed on a fastball, a great change up and total command of the zone (with amazing adjustments). It was nothing short of amazing to witness one of the two GA team players and coaches saying and I paraphrase, “we are going to tee off on this pitcher!” Needless to say he pitched a gem in both instances. Based on appearance you would have never thought that player would face down some of the best hitters in the southeast and sit them down. Confidence, presence on the mound, coy pick off moves and control made it possible. In other words, there was some heart involved like you say. That is one performance that was nothing short of amazing. No doubt was I and my son privileged to witness it. |
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prestont
197 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2012 : 17:33:29
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RACGOFAR & Bang have alot of it nailed.
Some kids will try to blow it by kids, others pitch to contact & trust the defense behind 'em - in the last couple years I've seen both successful facing majors competition. Most major pitchers have 3+ pitches, and can consistantly throw strikes. The pitchers goal is to.... GET OUTS!
One point I wanted to add is movement (in addition to location). Most of the kids my son has played with, or against, in the last couple years will crush a 65+ fastball if its flat with no movement. |
Edited by - prestont on 01/03/2012 20:20:07 |
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