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time2travel
4 Posts |
 Posted - 06/27/2011 : 10:28:19
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| Hi everyone, I need feedback please. In your opinion, at what age should catcher's be allowed to call their own pitches in seriously competitive travel baseball? Please let me know what you think and why. |
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ramman999
241 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2011 : 14:30:44
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I don't know if it is age as much as it is knowledge and experience. A catcher that knows pitch tendencies and game situations can be young, same goes for a pitcher (shaking off signs, locations)
Having said that - my feeling is that a good catcher can have some solid knowledge under his belt probably around 12, but I probably would only let him call pool games until he demonstrates the ability to take on that responsibility full time. Plenty of HS coaches still call their own games, and a lot of your calls are dependent on your defensive positioning (ie. playing for an outside pitch, etc.) so why force a kid into a situation he is not ready for. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2011 : 19:40:28
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Watch the College World Series. Watch MLB. Pitches are called from the bench at all levels. Depends on the catcher. Depends on the coach.
Some catchers I know were savvy enough to call pitches at 12 or 13. Some I know probably still don't really get it in certain situations. Even the good ones fall in love with the breaking pitch and even coaches who are good at calling games try to force the kid into their game plan when one or more of the kid's pitches may not be working.
With one of my catchers at 12 and 13 I would only call for a pitch out (saying the pitcher's number) or a pick off (saying the pitcher's last name). Otherwise the game was his. And he could call for those in situations where I hadn't. We only had a parting of the ways on a couple of occasions, but he did a good job.
I don't think it's a negative if he doesn't/can't/doesn't want to. The physical parts of catching are more important to me.
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rustybucket
67 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2011 : 08:16:04
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Back when I played ball I was a catcher. I ALWAYS called my own pitches. I know it was a bit different back then, but I still feel it's 'mostly' a catchers responsibility. Of course we didn't have travelball back then so I grew up knowing all the hitters we faced. I knew the ones who couldn't catch up with an inside fastball, I knew the ones who would bail if you threw a curve their way. I knew the ones who would adjust back if you threw them one inside pitch, leaving the outside half un-hittable. and so on...
I also knew all my pitchers, I knew instantly within a few pitches what I would be able to do with them that day.
I'm sure I made some bad calls, hey it is baseball right?, but I'm very confident that I consistently made better pitch calls than any coach could have. How can a coach from the dugout be able to read the subtle tendencies of a batter and/or pitcher and react pitch-to-pitch to them?
I think one major key to a good catcher making the calls is teaching them how to 'read the batter' and 'read the pitcher'. Sure the situational stuff is important as well, but that's easier to learn than the reading and application of that knowledge. Of course most of the situational stuff, as a catcher, I would call as well, I would shift the outfield/infield and then pitch to the shift.
Heck I even went as far as attending several pitching camps (one at UGA) so that I would learn more about pitching so I could work with and help my pitchers. I took it upon myself to learn as much as possible about pitching mechanics so I would be able to help my pitchers grow and become better.
But to answer the OP, I feel that if you have an 'educated' catcher who is a leader, let them call the pitches. If you see them mis-call, ask them why, they should have a good reason and should be able to tell you. If they don't or can't tell you, explain to them in detail what you would have called and why. |
Edited by - rustybucket on 06/28/2011 09:06:45 |
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time2travel
4 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2011 : 14:59:33
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Thanks everyone! My son just finished playing with a 10u team where the coach had total confidence in him and let him call most of his own games. He is incredibly knowledgeable and observant of batters and did a really good job (more so then I would ever expect from a 10 year old). Now he is going to play for an 11u team where the coach is adamant that only the coach call pitches. I'm just wondering if this will set him back at all. Personally I think the coach should give
him a chance before making the decision, but I'm not trying to be one of "those" moms. My son has asked if he could call some and the response was basically "no 10year old can call better than me". Is this a red flag??? |
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rustybucket
67 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2011 : 16:09:30
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quote:
Originally posted by time2travel
Thanks everyone! My son just finished playing with a 10u team where the coach had total confidence in him and let him call most of his own games. He is incredibly knowledgeable and observant of batters and did a really good job (more so then I would ever expect from a 10 year old). Now he is going to play for an 11u team where the coach is adamant that only the coach call pitches. I'm just wondering if this will set him back at all. Personally I think the coach should give
him a chance before making the decision, but I'm not trying to be one of "those" moms. My son has asked if he could call some and the response was basically "no 10year old can call better than me". Is this a red flag???
It could go either way. Either the coach really is 'special' at calling pitches and your catcher will learn from him and use this as a learning opportunity. Hopefully the coach will take time to mentor and explain why he called certain pitches at certain times, hopefully your catcher will be able to ask him, 'why did you call X at Y?' and the coach will explain (teach) him his reasons and methods behind it.
The other end of the stick is that your catcher becomes a 'catcher bot' on the field and the coach assumes the team leadership position. He just relays calls and learns little or nothing about the art.
IMO, the reason higher level coaches call pitches is usually b/c they are looking at hitting charts or scatter plots of the specific batter. They are using info that the catcher doesn't have access to in order to choose a pitch. |
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ramman999
241 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2011 : 16:22:56
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sounds like an ego trip to me, but depending on how well you know him, and how you (and/or your son) approach the situation, you might get a reaction like that. Assuming this is a new team to him and a different coach, your son needs to earn it first - if one of my kids (I also coach 10u, moving up to 11) asked me this spring to call pitches I would have probably reacted similar, although not put it that way to him.. But by season end, we let once of our catchers call at least 1 pool game a weekend, and he called 3 pool games in Cooperstown; he did a pretty good job save for a few mistakes, good enough that we will probably let them call some more in the fall.
He can better stake his claim by asking the coach and picking his brain about certain situations, or what he would call, etc. Demonstrate knowledge... |
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Jimmy33
1 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2011 : 01:16:10
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quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
Watch the College World Series. Watch MLB. Pitches are called from the bench at all levels. Depends on the catcher. Depends on the coach.
Coaches call the pitches for the most part in NCAA but coaches NEVER call pitches in MLB or even in the Minor Leagues.
When you see a MLB catcher look in to the dugout for a sign, it is only when there is a runner on first base. The sign he is getting has to do with controlling the running game. The signs tell the catcher either to pick over to first, have the pitcher hold the ball and step off, or even to occasionally pitch out etc.
They never tell the catcher what pitch to call in MLB... Never.
I believe that the catcher and pitcher should work the game as soon as possible age wise. This is how they learn the game (from both success and mistakes). That is the point of these leagues and tournaments right?
I also think the whole tempo of the game is more natural when the catcher calls the game. This keeps the fielders on their toes and creates a better rhythm for the pitcher. |
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