|
|
|
Note: You must be registered in order to post a reply.
To register, click here. Registration is FREE!
|
| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| baldy87 |
Posted - 03/14/2016 : 15:07:54
I know this is a loaded question, but.......... My son is playing 14U now. Played a major tournament this past weekend. After 6 season of watching umpires give another half-plate's width on the outer half of the strike zone while they were young, the umpires are still giving a MINIMUM of 6 to even 10 inches off the outer half of the plate. Pitchers at 14U majors are plenty talented enough to consistently hit that area with velocity, leaving the hitters to have to cover the usual 17 inches of the plate, plus the additional 6-10 inches off the plate. It's not just one or two umpires who call this way. It's extremely rare to find one who thinks the ball should have to actually cross the plate to be a strike. So, it's clear there's some sort of "directive" to call pitches this way even at this age group. My question is - does that ever change as the kids get older, or is this just the way baseball is until they get to the big leagues? |
| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| sebaseball |
Posted - 03/30/2016 : 22:52:43
quote:
To end up in the Major Leagues, an umpire has to start young and go to one of the two elite umpire schools and then work their way up. I was in my mid 30s when I started and far to old to ever have a chance to reach the bigs.
It is an extremely difficult road to the big leagues as an umpire. Professional umps are on the road everyday as they don't have a "home" ballpark. They get paired with a partner for the whole 1st half of the season and then switch to another one for the 2nd half. Better hope ya'll get along or it's a very long 3 months until you get a different partner. Not to mention, the turn over rate in the big leagues is very minimal and the majority of the new blood is in place for the next decade or two. |
| HeyBlue |
Posted - 03/16/2016 : 09:44:34
quote:
Originally posted by baldy87
Thanks, HeyBlue. I think that's what most people would consider a strict (and in my estimation a CORRECT) interpretation of the strike zone, and I can't see where anyone would really have a problem with that. But the majority of the umps I've seen aren't close to a single ball off the plate. It's more like 3 or even 4. This was our 3rd tourney of the year, and they've all been called with a liberal outside edge. That led to me thinking.......I wonder if it ever changes as they get older. I have been to many high school varsity games, and the outer edge just isn't that liberal. I didn't know if there was a magic age where the umps think, "ok - this is an age that I can shrink it a little." I also think the fact that high school umps are calling a single game where tournament umps call multiple games in a day factors in to the thinking that "we need to move this game along," and therefore - more strikes.
I call both high school and tournaments. With tournaments I have a time limit that I don't have with my high school games. The adage is, I'm paid to call strikes and outs. I do struggle with opening up my strike zone when instructed to do so by a TD. I don't want to get into bad habits. Some have a far more liberal outside edge than I do. I have a math background so I pay a lot of attention to the angle and I have had coaches bark about something being outside. Well it ended up out there, but at the front edge of the plate it had the very tip of the corner. That's why I slow down and take in all the data that I saw on the pitch and rule accordingly. |
| HeyBlue |
Posted - 03/16/2016 : 09:35:06
quote:
Originally posted by ofs13
We will always have an issue the the ump's strike zone. Either their strike zone is too tight & the pitchers are getting squeezed, or they're Eric Gregg & everything is a strike. All we should really expect is that the zone is consistent & the same for both teams. These guys are typically doing the best they can to call the game correctly. If they were MLB quality umpires, they would be working different games. That's not intended as an insult to the umpires, but just we aren't playing MLB caliber baseball, so we shouldn't expect MLB quality umps.
An ump a couple of weeks ago, in response to "complaints" from both teams' coaches regarding his partner's strike zone, indicated that they were instructed to call strikes two ball widths (approx 6 in.) off the plate. That would account for all/the majority of the extra width that baldy87 is questioning. (For the record, his partner's strike zone was significantly wider than 2 ball widths, but that's another discussion.)
To end up in the Major Leagues, an umpire has to start young and go to one of the two elite umpire schools and then work their way up. I was in my mid 30s when I started and far to old to ever have a chance to reach the bigs. |
| bfriendly |
Posted - 03/15/2016 : 23:00:12
quote:
Originally posted by baldy87
Thanks, HeyBlue. I think that's what most people would consider a strict (and in my estimation a CORRECT) interpretation of the strike zone, and I can't see where anyone would really have a problem with that. But the majority of the umps I've seen aren't close to a single ball off the plate. It's more like 3 or even 4. This was our 3rd tourney of the year, and they've all been called with a liberal outside edge. That led to me thinking.......I wonder if it ever changes as they get older. I have been to many high school varsity games, and the outer edge just isn't that liberal. I didn't know if there was a magic age where the umps think, "ok - this is an age that I can shrink it a little." I also think the fact that high school umps are calling a single game where tournament umps call multiple games in a day factors in to the thinking that "we need to move this game along," and therefore - more strikes.
Its about the only thing we can agree that makes sense........I guess its what I use to get through it and just let my boy Know that he better get his toes real close to the plate because they are being called a foot off of it everytime.........HIT IT! |
| baldy87 |
Posted - 03/15/2016 : 16:31:20
Thanks, HeyBlue. I think that's what most people would consider a strict (and in my estimation a CORRECT) interpretation of the strike zone, and I can't see where anyone would really have a problem with that. But the majority of the umps I've seen aren't close to a single ball off the plate. It's more like 3 or even 4. This was our 3rd tourney of the year, and they've all been called with a liberal outside edge. That led to me thinking.......I wonder if it ever changes as they get older. I have been to many high school varsity games, and the outer edge just isn't that liberal. I didn't know if there was a magic age where the umps think, "ok - this is an age that I can shrink it a little." I also think the fact that high school umps are calling a single game where tournament umps call multiple games in a day factors in to the thinking that "we need to move this game along," and therefore - more strikes. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 03/15/2016 : 13:45:34
quote:
Originally posted by baldy87
I know this is a loaded question, but.......... My son is playing 14U now. Played a major tournament this past weekend. After 6 season of watching umpires give another half-plate's width on the outer half of the strike zone while they were young, the umpires are still giving a MINIMUM of 6 to even 10 inches off the outer half of the plate. Pitchers at 14U majors are plenty talented enough to consistently hit that area with velocity, leaving the hitters to have to cover the usual 17 inches of the plate, plus the additional 6-10 inches off the plate. It's not just one or two umpires who call this way. It's extremely rare to find one who thinks the ball should have to actually cross the plate to be a strike. So, it's clear there's some sort of "directive" to call pitches this way even at this age group. My question is - does that ever change as the kids get older, or is this just the way baseball is until they get to the big leagues?
Let's say the ball was called 10 inches off the plate. The plate is 17 inches wide so we are talking about 27 inches to cover. If the player is standing 6 inches from the plate that is 33 inches to cover. The average size bat for 14u is 31 inches. So, have your kid stretch his arms out 2 inches from his body and all should be good!
The problem MOST players have is the ball doesn't come in straight, it comes in at an angle that is changing. When the catcher catches the ball it could be as far as 12+inches from the plate, but it doesn't mean it wasn't in the strike zone at some point. That right there is why kids either leave baseball or go the PO route at 14u and up...they can no longer hit the ball. |
| ofs13 |
Posted - 03/15/2016 : 11:28:49
We will always have an issue the the ump's strike zone. Either their strike zone is too tight & the pitchers are getting squeezed, or they're Eric Gregg & everything is a strike. All we should really expect is that the zone is consistent & the same for both teams. These guys are typically doing the best they can to call the game correctly. If they were MLB quality umpires, they would be working different games. That's not intended as an insult to the umpires, but just we aren't playing MLB caliber baseball, so we shouldn't expect MLB quality umps.
An ump a couple of weeks ago, in response to "complaints" from both teams' coaches regarding his partner's strike zone, indicated that they were instructed to call strikes two ball widths (approx 6 in.) off the plate. That would account for all/the majority of the extra width that baldy87 is questioning. (For the record, his partner's strike zone was significantly wider than 2 ball widths, but that's another discussion.) |
| HeyBlue |
Posted - 03/15/2016 : 10:32:51
I was trained to give a ball width on the corners meaning that the pitch is catching the black. The book on me is that I have a tight strike zone and the 10 year old coach at Triple Crown week before last kept pulling the "they are ten card".
My shrinking of the zone is up and down based on the skill level of the players and so long as we aren't talking 14 year old rec ball, then I am just about as tight with them as I am with College Showcase games.
I have called the pitches you are describing as a strike in 1 game in my life and that was a College Showcase game that was 21-1 going to the third and told the batters from the team that was up, "if you can reach it, you might want to swing at it." Only one batter didn't understand the directive (and his coach was perfectly fine with it) and struck out on 3 pitches that I felt dirty calling. |
| baldy87 |
Posted - 03/15/2016 : 09:29:56
Yep - I get that the intent is to speed the game up by calling more strikes, but as the kids get older, it becomes a pretty severe advantage for the pitchers if the zone is called that way. My question was directed more towards folks who have kids at the older age groups. Does this change much as the kids get older? At what age (if any) do you see a more narrow strike zone? |
| turntwo |
Posted - 03/15/2016 : 09:06:43
quote:
Originally posted by baldy87
My question is - does that ever change as the kids get older, or is this just the way baseball is until they get to the big leagues?
I'm not sure it changes... Ask the Braves about Eric Gregg and him calling Hernandez in '97....  |
| bfriendly |
Posted - 03/15/2016 : 06:38:47
quote:
Originally posted by baldy87
I know this is a loaded question, but.......... My son is playing 14U now. Played a major tournament this past weekend. After 6 season of watching umpires give another half-plate's width on the outer half of the strike zone while they were young, the umpires are still giving a MINIMUM of 6 to even 10 inches off the outer half of the plate. Pitchers at 14U majors are plenty talented enough to consistently hit that area with velocity, leaving the hitters to have to cover the usual 17 inches of the plate, plus the additional 6-10 inches off the plate. It's not just one or two umpires who call this way. It's extremely rare to find one who thinks the ball should have to actually cross the plate to be a strike. So, it's clear there's some sort of "directive" to call pitches this way even at this age group. My question is - does that ever change as the kids get older, or is this just the way baseball is until they get to the big leagues?
Maybe not "Clear" but there sure does seem to be some incentive. I can handle a ball or even two off the plate, but when its easily a foot off the plate its simply not fair; even if its consistently called.
Even at 10, my kid knew how far away the edge of the plate was. I'd be willing to bet most of the kids playing 10+ travel ball at any level know too.
The tough part is convincing them that they are going to have to hit pitches that are balls......... |
|
|
| Georgia Travel Baseball - NWBA |
© 2000-22 NWBA |
 |
|
|
