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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 10/30/2017 : 10:15:09
I won't name names since it would never get through the moderator (hi stan!) but it has come to my attention that there is a team here in GA that subscribed to the PG database to get the profiles of local kids. They then sent out emails to the KIDS (not the parents) asking them to come try out.
This is not cool. Had you sent this email in July or August that would be one thing. Had you posted on this board that you still had openings, that would have been fine. HOWEVER, emailing children is not cool. Emailing children who are already on a team is not cool. Claiming you can do more to help him with his recruiting is just playing on their hopes. The fact that you provided a link to "Register Confidentially to tryout" shows you know this is wrong.
I had already heard all I needed to know about this org, and the email just proved it. I wonder how many of your children have been contacted. |
| 24 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| turntwo |
Posted - 11/07/2017 : 11:16:17
quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44
Again what does it matter where the email went? You parents willingly supplied the product sold (your player), you provided the contact info database sold (your player), you provided it all for Free, actually you paid to provide in in many ways. The whole business model relies on one product, your player and your info! You did it, you typed it in and checked the release form, you created the incentive, you created and enabled the system, to sell this info without any controls. You enabled the whole race for travel ball profits with your checkbooks, you enabled the hucksters and shysters and poor judgment profiteers who would potentially misuse such information to sell a dream.
Expect more of the same. Expect it.
But when you don't like it, look no further than yourself. Because without the information you provided for PG (in this case. Could be any of dozens of recruiting sham services) to sell in upgraded subscription access none of this would be occurring.
You did it. You enabled it. Quit be righteously indignant. Maybe you just made a bad choice to trust a place you shouldn't have. These are the ramifications of the system you have willingly chosen to participate it and support.
A-freaking-men!!! Truer words have never been spoken. Very well stated. |
| bigroc19 |
Posted - 11/07/2017 : 10:52:04
Drop the MIC Renegade44...you hit on the head |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 11/07/2017 : 09:54:08
quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44
Again what does it matter where the email went? You parents willingly supplied the product sold (your player), you provided the contact info database sold (your player), you provided it all for Free, actually you paid to provide in in many ways. The whole business model relies on one product, your player and your info! You did it, you typed it in and checked the release form, you created the incentive, you created and enabled the system, to sell this info without any controls. You enabled the whole race for travel ball profits with your checkbooks, you enabled the hucksters and shysters and poor judgment profiteers who would potentially misuse such information to sell a dream.
Expect more of the same. Expect it.
But when you don't like it, look no further than yourself. Because without the information you provided for PG (in this case. Could be any of dozens of recruiting sham services) to sell in upgraded subscription access none of this would be occurring.
You did it. You enabled it. Quit be righteously indignant. Maybe you just made a bad choice to trust a place you shouldn't have. These are the ramifications of the system you have willingly chosen to participate it and support.
Okay, you don't like PG, WE GET IT!
Rather than blame PG I think I will blame the spineless schmucks who paid for a database of kids email addresses rather than going by word of mouth or actually gathering a team where people would seek them out. |
| Renegade44 |
Posted - 11/06/2017 : 11:21:52
Again what does it matter where the email went? You parents willingly supplied the product sold (your player), you provided the contact info database sold (your player), you provided it all for Free, actually you paid to provide in in many ways. The whole business model relies on one product, your player and your info! You did it, you typed it in and checked the release form, you created the incentive, you created and enabled the system, to sell this info without any controls. You enabled the whole race for travel ball profits with your checkbooks, you enabled the hucksters and shysters and poor judgment profiteers who would potentially misuse such information to sell a dream.
Expect more of the same. Expect it.
But when you don't like it, look no further than yourself. Because without the information you provided for PG (in this case. Could be any of dozens of recruiting sham services) to sell in upgraded subscription access none of this would be occurring.
You did it. You enabled it. Quit be righteously indignant. Maybe you just made a bad choice to trust a place you shouldn't have. These are the ramifications of the system you have willingly chosen to participate it and support. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 11/06/2017 : 10:03:38
quote:
Originally posted by contact
CaCO3Girl , while I understand your point and agree with most of your post , I can tell you that when it comes to recruiting players most teams will do anything and everything to get the kids they want. My youngest son is 18 and a senior in H.S. and will be playing at a D1 school next year, so I can tell you without a doubt teams will promise you the moon and very few will deliver, and it gets worse as the kids get older. My advice , relax find a team that can help your kid , both on the field and off , and lets the kids have fun, it will get real soon enough.
Congrats to your son on his achievements.
If this was a targeted email to me I would have felt different, but they didn't want MY kid, they put out a blast email to anyone in GA that met the criteria, regardless of who they were with or where they were. The email itself had 3 signatures because it had been forwarded so many times and copy and pasted sections in different fonts.
Anyway, just wanted to get it out there that there is one org targeting younger kids emails. About 10 people have emailed me to ask who it was, only one was surprised. It's a small world, word gets around. |
| contact |
Posted - 11/06/2017 : 06:50:58
CaCO3Girl , while I understand your point and agree with most of your post , I can tell you that when it comes to recruiting players most teams will do anything and everything to get the kids they want. My youngest son is 18 and a senior in H.S. and will be playing at a D1 school next year, so I can tell you without a doubt teams will promise you the moon and very few will deliver, and it gets worse as the kids get older. My advice , relax find a team that can help your kid , both on the field and off , and lets the kids have fun, it will get real soon enough. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 11/03/2017 : 14:55:04
Even I have said it's his sport, not mine, and he makes the choices. The key thing is that I have veto power. Will he leave a good team with an amazing coach and contacts that is 10 minutes from our house? NO!
Do I think it's okay that they send a poaching email to 15, 14, or even 13 year olds, no. The parental email is on there right next to the kids email. As for WHY it is there, it's easy access for college coaches. Do I care about school xyz that has an assistant running a camp with 12 other assistants from D1-JUCO schools...nope. Do I care about the camp invites for ONE school from a recruiting coordinator leaving his phone number and an invitation to a camp...YES!
As for parents and kids not checking on the reputation of a program, the amount already committed from his class, and the school environment....that's on them. It really is a buyer beware industry. |
| Crazyforbball |
Posted - 11/03/2017 : 14:46:54
I'm not sure what you are getting at, Renegade. I hear what you're saying...travel baseball and all youth sports ARE big business, this was recently a cover story for Time Magazine, but whether or not parents are responsible for the profit motive here, what would you suggest? Our kids stop playing PG? They refuse PG tournaments? They play but leave their profile blank? I think the original thread had nothing to do with PG other than utilizing it in a perhaps unethical manner to their benefit. |
| Renegade44 |
Posted - 11/03/2017 : 11:28:31
I have no problem with liars and cheats and preying scumbag used car salesman tactics trying to entice my player into a summer season 7 months in advance. Like I said its the system the PARENTS have created and allowed. We just play along in it and recognize the crap scheme for what it is. And its always interesting how near free one can get in negotiations with the hucksters.
Hint#1: Your adolescent players email and phone number doesn't NEED to be on the PG profile that is being SOLD. (and make no mistake that's where it 99.9% starts: PG selling the info. Now cue up all the excuse makers) The parents phone number and email will do just fine until Sept 1st of the beginning of your Junior HS year.
Hint#2: Your information is being sold widely to anyone and everyone. With no controls or safety checks. Just as long as the Payer can pay. Right now the going cost is $20 a month to $50 depending on when and where and who.
Hint#3: The financial success of 'travel sports" (their financial success, not yours) has in fact been noticed by many struggling for enrollment and survival small colleges. Tapping into the dream and allure of being a collegiate athlete has become bigger business all the way to the top. Case in point: College ABCD, 600 Enrollment, 300 Male, 98 committed and tweeted out baseball players this Fall. Yes 98 products of PG and the travel sports industry.
Hint#4: Its not just baseball. College ABCD has 80% of its enrolled male population rostered for a spot on some collegiate sport team. (basketball, tennis, soccer, etc) Selling the dream that was cooked up by PG and other showcase schemers, and the thousands of travel academies.
Pay on. And upward. And just remember if the check clears the bank there is a National Showcase team and future College team spot out there for you! They'll be in contact soon. |
| satchel |
Posted - 11/03/2017 : 10:05:31
I have no problem with teams contact my 15yr old kid. It's his career, not mine. I'd rather him get used to it now as opposed to that time way in the future -one year(16)- when colleges really start to evaluate and talk to him. He will make the ultimate decision. He can always just say no. Perhaps it is a better opportunity and the team obviously has an interest. Maybe he should be consider the tryout offer. What's wrong with options? My kid has been approached by different teams over the years about playing for them. I've always let it be his decision after weighing the pros and cons. It's part of growing up and learning about life.
As I've explained to him. It's your career. WE pay them to play. They are not paying us, thus take the best opportunity you can as you don't OWE them anything. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 11/03/2017 : 08:04:04
quote:
Originally posted by jaguars18
If you want to complain then how about PG selling emails so places that have no idea who you are can contact you and tell you that they saw or scouted your kid and for a fee he can come to a showcase etc etc....its all a way to make money from 8u to 18u..ego's pay the bill
I don't blame PG, when the day comes that a coach wants his email address it is right there to be had. This GA team used the email list in a way it wasn't intended to be used. Do you blame the reddi wip people for people using their product to get high? No, it wasn't what the product was intended for.
Yes, he gets camp invites, but that is a generic mass email. That is very different than an email that says "We believe we can do more to help you with recruiting and development"..."Getting ready for high school, moving toward the recruiting process where we have a long term proven track record of success"....which is encouraging him to change teams. Camp invites aren't trying to encourage him to change teams. |
| jaguars18 |
Posted - 11/02/2017 : 18:44:26
you can always say NO |
| Crazyforbball |
Posted - 11/02/2017 : 09:10:30
I don't think caco3's issue is the poaching, it's the poaching of the KID vs approaching the parent about the kid..correct me if I'm wrong ca. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 11/02/2017 : 08:14:49
quote:
Originally posted by satchel
You say about th top dogs..."They may call, they may have a friend of a friend ask you to call, they may even talk to you after a tourney"....that is poaching as well. Sounds more like you have something personal against a certain organization.
I have something against a blast email to my kid that plays on his hopes and fears. If a college can't contact my kid then a 15u travel org shouldn't be able to either. |
| satchel |
Posted - 11/01/2017 : 17:01:53
You say about th top dogs..."They may call, they may have a friend of a friend ask you to call, they may even talk to you after a tourney"....that is poaching as well. Sounds more like you have something personal against a certain organization.
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| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 11/01/2017 : 10:32:36
quote:
Originally posted by satchel
Dont hate. Been happening for years and will continue to happen. Most of the top organizations recruit like this in some format, which is why they are the top organizations.
I have to disagree. The top orgs don't recruit like this. They may call, they may have a friend of a friend ask you to call, they may even talk to you after a tourney but they don't email a 15u kid. Even colleges can't email a 15u kid. This is strait up bush league tactics and I can't say I'm surprised that this org was reduced to this. |
| satchel |
Posted - 11/01/2017 : 10:19:41
Dont hate. Been happening for years and will continue to happen. Most of the top organizations recruit like this in some format, which is why they are the top organizations. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 11/01/2017 : 07:56:55
quote:
Originally posted by Gatravelbaseball
I really wish teams/coaches who do stuff like this could be called out by name so the rest of us can avoid them, and so they can suffer the consequences they so badly deserve.
If anyone wants to email me I will gladly share the name. Although I think it's funny that AFTER I posted this and used some of their exact words they posted in the teams that have openings thread on this very board. Lord save the special people of this world. |
| Gatravelbaseball |
Posted - 10/31/2017 : 15:39:11
I really wish teams/coaches who do stuff like this could be called out by name so the rest of us can avoid them, and so they can suffer the consequences they so badly deserve. |
| Crazyforbball |
Posted - 10/31/2017 : 09:53:38
If there is something unethical about this it's certainly not PG, it's this coach contacting the kids directly, rather than the parents. Pretty sure MY contact info is on my son's profile. Last I checked, HE is not the only one involved in this decision, because he is not the one footing the bill. Before you dangle the carrot, be sure I can pay for it or you create an uncomfortable situation in my home. So even though I am just reading about this practice and have no firsthand knowledge I think it's wrong. Is PG at fault? Heck no! No better avenue to get great players in front of large numbers of scouts that most likely would never see them otherwise. And how lucky are we it's HERE?! How many have to travel to us for the chance? For us it's a short drive. Profitable? You bet! Wish I had thought of it! |
| Hurricane |
Posted - 10/30/2017 : 15:24:42
My thoughts on PG is that the profiles are 90% for the players, parents and Coaches to look around and see who they are playing where someone committed and what a kid throws or how they did in a tournament. I do not think College coaches are really logging in and looking around at profiles unless they see something that makes them go look at a player playing then they might pull it up. I think some organizations get ahold of these profiles and send out spam mail. My son got a generic email one time that said we saw you play at Lake Point on a certain date when in fact the #2 team in the organization was the team playing at Lake Point, we were at Clemson playing. LOL
Both #1 and #2 teams were sent this email. I will say he never had a coach send him one to his PG email asking to tryout for his team though, I agree that is low. So are the colleges that send out camp information and pretend to be looking for players when in fact they pickup no one before you pay the money that are answering every email you send them, will there be feedback absolutely, then you get nothing when the camp is over. The recruiting process is really a big lie unless you are one of those pitchers that throw really hard, run below a 6.7, or are already on the radars of D-1 Schools and scouts. Especially the big schools. The kids that I have seen get the most scholarships to D-2 and D-3 schools that can't yet play at the D-1 level get those by having a good Travel Coach that will put his rep on the line and contact these guys, that is when they can sell the grades and how hard a player works. PG I agree does provide an awesome venue to be seen by colleges together at the same time. Show out and you might get talked too. Michael Chavis 1st round draft pick a few years ago, hit some homeruns in PG, that is when he got on the radar. He continued to do it time after time and look what he ended up doing. The buzz started at PG tournaments. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 10/30/2017 : 13:38:25
Renegade44, just wow!
The PG profiles are a good thing. When my sons team backed out of the BCS in Ft Myers it was easy to have another coach look at his profile and say yeah, we can take him. That profile is a good thing to have. Yes, I know PG sells their scouting level subscription but it isn't supposed to be to poach travel players, nor do I think they ever thought it would be. I'm not putting this on PG, it's on this GA team.
Also, if that has been your experience with how kids get recruited them I'm sorry. Mine has been more along the line of they see him at a PG event and express interest OR the travel ball coach has made specific calls to specific college coaches. The spam email is kind of a silly concept and not what I've seen. Not saying it doesn't happen but it doesn't sound effective and one would HOPE people would place their sons with people who have actual contacts.
And all of this has nothing to do with this GA team being worse than used car salesmen. |
| bama21 |
Posted - 10/30/2017 : 13:15:39
Perfect Game may not provide the scholarship, but they do provide a venue for players to be seen. Most colleges don't have a bottomless budget to spend or the time for that matter to go to 50 different high schools all over the country to watch 1 or 2 kids at each game that are on their radar. The colleges are going to spend their money wisely and go to showcases and tournaments where they can see hundreds of players in one setting. If your son goes to the WWBA in Jupiter, you will see this concept on display times 10. College and pro scouts are everywhere, absolutely insane environment. When you can bring all those resources together, you better believe you are going to pay for it.
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| Renegade44 |
Posted - 10/30/2017 : 12:22:22
Don't be righteously indignant at this development.
Parents have been willing partners (or pawns????) in creating this whole environment or circus if you will. Parents have enabled the academies to charge 5k and 6K and team budgets of upwards of 60k to 80k to play ball for a year. Every semi qualified ex player or otherwise free market entrepreneur now wants or sees an opportunity for profit in the environment created.
Parents have willingly allowed Perfect Game and other competing showcase profit motive businesses to insert themselves into the recruiting process between High School (lol now Middle school lol) and the Colleges. Perfect Game hasn't created one additional scholarship at a college. But parents have allowed AND provided them with a product to sell BACK to the parents and whoever else will pay for info. Parents provided the bio/contact/etc. info and signed the PG release on how PG uses (and sells!!!) the information YOU provided on your own player.
Most parents defend this crap system and yak on about all the exposure their player gets from the crap system. All you've done is enable and create the middlemen and gatekeepers, and inserted the profit motive between High Schools baseball athletes and Colleges.
Well? This is what you get in this type pay for play, pay for exposure, pay for hype, pay for dreams that YOU have created, participated, funded, and defended all these years. A system where money and profit and selling and reselling of contact info get spun into the needs of these entrepreneurs to find the NEXT 6K check to come in for the dream they are selling.
====================================
Now I would like to introduce the 401K Baseball Academy. (My 401K) For a mere $6,000 player fee a year we will play in 20 Perfect Game events. Roster will be limited to the first 20 National Level players we can rake in and who's check clears the bank. We will run teams at ages 13U,14U, reclassed 14U, 2022, 2021, 2020, 2019.
Our organizational philosophy is simple! $120K per team X 7 Teams = More than enough $$$,$$$ for our Head Recruiter of College Placement (me!)to spend 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, calling and spam emailing College coaches on your behalf!. If you are good enough we will place you! If not then well it's your own fault you weren't good enough. (and HINT!) There is always a struggling for enrollment private college out there that now sees baseball and other college sports as an enrollment tool. We can commit you there at any point if you must Twitter something out. Just understand you will be one of the 98 recruits coming in.
Email Spammed to 10,000 players. Thanks PG for the subscription cost email list of players with expendable funds. We couldn't have done it without your pioneer profiteering of the baseball recruiting process first!
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