| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| ecbstars |
Posted - 04/13/2010 : 10:43:15
I wanted to take a moment to pass along our experience this past weekend. I have made many friends in the travel baseball circuit and met a lot of great people. To all of you please keep this experience in mind when selecting your future events.
We signed up for and paid for a USSSA / Global Sports event this past weekend in Auburn, Alabama. 11 families planned around this event booked, rooms and in several cases cut other family vacations short to make this happen for the kids. I was notified by one of my coaches that the brackets were changed on Thursday night around 10:00 p.m. est. My immediate question was is anything different for us? To my surprise it was very different - we had been removed from the tourney. The tournament director, Dee Black, posted on their website just below the new update in bold "East Cobb is (not are)removed for complaining" I was completely shocked! What had we done? The even bigger question is what had the director done except take baseball away from my kids and ruin what was otherwise a nice spring break?
As of today 4/13/10 I have not, nor has anyone involved with my team EVER spoken with Mr. Black at ANY time before or since this event. An absolute class act. The only contact number for him, I am assuming cell phone has a full mailbox so I was unable to even leave a message. We have gotten no response from any e-mails since.
We were scheduled to play at 8:00 and 9:45 cst. (9:00 & 10:45 our time). Our team tourney dad did ask since we were going to be a little short handed on Friday what would happen in the event someone got hurt or otherwise what would the result be? We got no response. NEVER did we ask to get out or complain. They have at least taken that part off their website.
The state director did return my call and said it was the local director's decision and that he supported him. We were not able to get into another tourney with such short notice. Thanks to all who tried for our kids.
Has anyone else had a bad experienced or anything like this with Alabama USSSA or Global Sports? I have hosted several USSSA events including Major State and have never heard of anything like this. Can't wait to hear your comments.
Thanks,
Brian Gilley
EC Stars 11-U
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| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| mrbama31 |
Posted - 04/22/2010 : 08:50:49
Who was asked to call him? The coach was asked to call the director or the director asked to call the coach?
quote:
Originally posted by teddy41
I think he was asked to call him and probably never did..this is not a truth detector its a message board
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| teddy41 |
Posted - 04/22/2010 : 07:15:29
I think he was asked to call him and probably never did..this is not a truth detector its a message board |
| mrbama31 |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 19:56:50
I agree that the TD unwillingness to talk directly with the Stars HC is NOT good business.
quote:
Originally posted by gasbag
There may be two perspectives to every story....but where else do you expect the Ga. Team that got booted to respond to ? They indicated that they have tried numerous times to communicate with the TD and he's gone underground. This is an appropriate place to ask their questions in my opinion. If the TD decides he is unwilling to respond directly to these folks, then his tournament will be subjected to one perspective....as it should be if he's unwilling to talk to them. I get not wanting to debate something on an open forum....but I don't get why he's unwilling to talk with them directly...does anyone know why ?
This is like eating at a restaurant and having a bad meal and bad service, etc. We've all "been there and done that". I also know we've also relayed that experience to anyone willing to listen. This is NO different. These folks had a BAD experience with a BUSINESS and are entitled to share their experience with anyone willing to listen.
Some may have had a good experience...but don't go slamming on the ones who didn't, and where the "proprietor" is unwilling to talk with them about their bad experience with his business. I find the dialogue useful and appreciate both the bad and good input.
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| gasbag |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 17:16:40
There may be two perspectives to every story....but where else do you expect the Ga. Team that got booted to respond to ? They indicated that they have tried numerous times to communicate with the TD and he's gone underground. This is an appropriate place to ask their questions in my opinion. If the TD decides he is unwilling to respond directly to these folks, then his tournament will be subjected to one perspective....as it should be if he's unwilling to talk to them. I get not wanting to debate something on an open forum....but I don't get why he's unwilling to talk with them directly...does anyone know why ?
This is like eating at a restaurant and having a bad meal and bad service, etc. We've all "been there and done that". I also know we've also relayed that experience to anyone willing to listen. This is NO different. These folks had a BAD experience with a BUSINESS and are entitled to share their experience with anyone willing to listen.
Some may have had a good experience...but don't go slamming on the ones who didn't, and where the "proprietor" is unwilling to talk with them about their bad experience with his business. I find the dialogue useful and appreciate both the bad and good input. |
| Bully |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 10:20:10
I will return! I have had a great time in every one of Dees tournaments we played in. He has met all my request every year. Sorry this has happend to this team....but like some have said there at 2 sides to this story. Maybe the EC Stars was not asking for much but maybe it was the tone it was asked.
I do not expect Dee to come on here and bad mouth the Stars like they have done him. And for Papa to suggest that if he did this to an East Cobb team he would certainly do it to anyone else is crazy. Does EC speak for Georgia? |
| gasbag |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 09:45:40
quote:
Originally posted by baseballpapa
Another good reason for not responding is that you know what is being said is 100% true and you don't care to make yourself look worse than you already do. I would not think that there would ever be a good reason to do to kids what this director did.
The Georgia teams should not enrich this director by playing in Alabama because if he did it to East Cobb he will surely do the same thing to you. So in other words if it is this guy giving the tournament go somewhere else.
This message board is exactly the place to respond as this moderator will not let the debate get out of hand or nasty.
Papa - Talked with Number 1 Grandson this weekend and he said you were not feeling well. I hope you get to feeling better soon as I missed seeing at the park and talking baseball. Hope to see you soon ! |
| baseballpapa |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 08:12:48
Another good reason for not responding is that you know what is being said is 100% true and you don't care to make yourself look worse than you already do. I would not think that there would ever be a good reason to do to kids what this director did.
The Georgia teams should not enrich this director by playing in Alabama because if he did it to East Cobb he will surely do the same thing to you. So in other words if it is this guy giving the tournament go somewhere else.
This message board is exactly the place to respond as this moderator will not let the debate get out of hand or nasty. |
| G-Man |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 20:35:47
Part of that statement is true. However based on what has been said I would be looking at this from a business standpoint. I would feel that if I dont respond I could lose business and thats the last thing I would want to do. SO I would be compelled to respond. Plus even if half of whats being said was done. The TD is wrong for doing what he did.
quote:
Originally posted by whits23
cant blame someone for not responding to a message board..IT is a Message board..hello..rumors, gossip etc etc. You never will win in a battle on here
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| whits23 |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 13:30:26
cant blame someone for not responding to a message board..IT is a Message board..hello..rumors, gossip etc etc. You never will win in a battle on here |
| mfraley |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 11:04:01
Everyone keeps saying there is another side. The problem is we don't know the other side either. We still to this day have not spoken with this stand up guy Dee Black. So tatterbug since you know this guy give him a holla and ask him to give us a call. He should have several numbers considering we have left him at least 20 messages. Again, there is no history. We did not speak to the guy on the phone ever. The guy received three emails from one of our parents about the times of the games. In one of the emails he ask the guy what the forfeit rules were and that some (moms)parents have concerns about the late game; but at the end of that message the guy said if you can not make any adjustments we will play with the cards we are dealt.
So stop defending this guy and accept that he made a tremendous inappropiate judgment call.
I understand why so many think there is more to the story. But there isn't, that is why we are so baffled.
When we first heard that we were removed, we wanted to rip our tournament director a new one. We ask the head state director to send us the emails and he did. There was nothing in those emails to warrant this type of action. it really is that simple guys, there is know smoking gun. |
| ingasven |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 10:39:36
I'm not taking sides here Brian, but when you say you never threatened anything I think you mean directly.
As I read the original post from your "tournament dad" I was having a difficult time understanding how you wouldn't have enough kids for a second game. If I'm the TD I HAVE to be thinking when asked.... "what if we don't have enough for the second game, what are the penalties on a forfeit"...How could you possibly have enough for the first game, but not the second (I'm not buying the what if someone gets hurt is the reason we may be short or nobody would ever accept back-to-back games)
The fact one Friday game was requested, but two were scheduled and then the "what if" scenario was put on the table I think the TD rightfully felt he was being manipulated through a "veiled" threat of forfeit. That is a nightmare listening to all the complaints of " We didn't get to play all our games, they saved pitching", etc, etc, so he took the lesser of two evils.
Having said all that, the TD is a complete POS for the manner in which he handled everything. If he thought he was being strong-armed into granting your request he should have called a spade a spade and flat out confronted you about that. He should have asked why you would have enough for the first game but not the second.
HE SHOULD HAVE COMMUNICATED WITH YOUR TEAM....LISTEN UP USSSA...HE SHOULD HAVE COMMUNICATED (see Tony VonDolteren & Triple Crown)
Another example of U-Trip thinking they don't need us, we need them. |
| teddy41 |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 10:15:02
sign up, show up, play..how is that difficult |
| tater77bug |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 10:06:25
It looks like Mr Bama has made some good points....I dont know many TD that would turn away money and gladly refund your money unless there were some un needed pressure coming his way...I have played at this location....it was a great tourney...I have played in this TD's tourney's before at other locations and he has done a solid job(I have had worse)...momma always says it takes two to tango...so to put ALL the blame on the TD is most likely unfair...my experience is that TD's generally like to deal with HC's and not team dads...I am not sure we are getting the whole story here and to blast this TD who I know is a quality individual just seems out of line and character for him...maybe there is some bad blood...I can't imagine a TD that would have a problem with EC teams because there are so many of them that might play at his venue....so why would he have an ax to grind...so to suggest that you are being picked on and that you were totally innocent and caught off guard just doesn't make sense... |
| mrbama31 |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 09:27:52
Stars,
I have no association with DEE or USSSA...mrbama31 is simply a reference to where I went to school(University Of Alabama) and my jersey number. I live here in Ga and I am from Ga. I hate that you guys missed what seems like would have been a very good weekend of Baseball with the exception of having to hang out at the Plains All weekend...lol. Roll Tide....srry if I offended you by asking questions and responding to your questions...Good luck the rest of the season. |
| ecbstars |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 23:29:44
quote:
Originally posted by O-fer
quote:
Originally posted by mrbama31
This past weekend Triple Crown had games starting at 945pm on Saturday night in the 11 yr old bracket.
Not that it matters but these 2 games were scheduled at 5:30 ..... the fields had no lights and the games were running way behind so they had to be moved to ECB after all regularly scheduled games.
Thanks for the clarification "O".
So if somebody did worse or the same thing it is OK? Now you are totally vindicated. We never threatened anything! We were well aware of the difference in time. I am assuming the director did as well when he was thrilled to have us in it.
The bottom line my kids got hosed by a non-responsive director who was not even going to be on site. Am I factually acurate Bama? Really...really? How do you run a tourney and for "some reason" you are not going to be there? If you need clarification on any details, again feel free to contact me. (By the way you can find my info.)
We never asked to get out or made any threats. We were prepared to play the hand that was dealt us. Our last game on Saturday was scheduled for I believe 12:30 cst. I was great with that.
I think Bama is a little off track. What I was completelly lite about was that we did not get to play and the classless manner with which the whole situation was handled. We were ready to get our game on and have a fun weekend maybe even catch Auburn v. LSU baseball.
This whole thing seems bigger than just us. Is this some ECB or Georgia vendetta jag? If so I wish you would have left my kids / team out of it. Thanks again. |
| O-fer |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 19:04:03
quote:
Originally posted by mrbama31
This past weekend Triple Crown had games starting at 945pm on Saturday night in the 11 yr old bracket.
Not that it matters but these 2 games were scheduled at 5:30 ..... the fields had no lights and the games were running way behind so they had to be moved to ECB after all regularly scheduled games. |
| whits23 |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 17:12:13
heck i am ready to remove people from complaining on here ;}
I am going to bama in a month maybe i should change my name and address |
| Alter-Ego |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 16:20:01
mfraley,
Unfortunately this conversation has taken 2 forks. I think most on here will agree that how this was handled by the TD was far from being correct. There has just been some splinter conversations about expectations and etiquette that somewhat seem to appear that the blame is on the team, but I don't believe that is the sentiment.
I think there are some learnings from this, for many people, though.
1) Be cautious about using the work "Forfeit" in a sentence to a TD after you have requested a game time change.
2) Anticipate that, when playing in a different time zone, game times may be played later than you are typically used to. Especially if there is a chance for bad weather. |
| mrbama31 |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 16:17:49
mfraley,
I have said/typed more than once that I am not saying what the director did/how he handled the matter was the correct way...BUT We all need to be aware that when you as a team/tournament dad complain and start a conversation about your team forfeiting a pool game because you may not have enough for the 2nd game because it is too late you run the risk of something like this happening. The Director may see it as he is protecting the other team from traveling to play only to have a team forfeit.
quote:
Originally posted by mfraley
Mrbama and anybody else that supports this obvious abuse of power, we found out that we were removed from the tournament at 930pm Thursday night, my wife was in Alabama at the time, she browsed the website and saw that we were remove for complaining, she called me and ask me what was going on. I was shocked because I could not imagine such disrespect for so many kids. we are glad she is baseball fanatic or all11 families would have showed up in alabama. I informed Brian and we intensely tried to contact Dee, with no avail, I reached out to the the Guy in north alabama, returned my call around 1130pm, I shared with him the little that I knew, he said, mind you with a chuckle "I have never heard of such." The really strange thing was after he kicked us out the tournament, he cleverly eliminated all Friday games. So at the end of the day, thanks to stars no team had to play late Friday. It makes one wonder if we were the only team that voiced a concern.
I agee that the tournament director should have not asked what the forfeit rules were but to not call and discuss the situation and send us a blind email to inform us your decision is petty and cowardice.
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| blowinsmoke |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 16:15:18
Let me also remind everyone to, The tourney was going to be a 4 game guarantee to,there was 3 pool games scheduled and then a single elimination afterwards, so when they removed The stars ,it went to a 3 game guarantee.. |
| mrbama31 |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 15:54:54
Peanut,
Playing only 2 games back to back on Friday night 8 and 945pm is a much better scenario than playing 2 pool games on Sat morning then wait around the park all day because u live an hour away and then play at 945pm that night....By the way the ECB Stars were on SPRING BREAK... the boys had NO SCHOOL the Friday they were traveling.
quote:
Originally posted by Peanutsr
I stand corrected. That being said, a 9:45 playoff game on a Saturday after all the teams are at the park, and a 9:45 pool game on a Friday when teams have to travel after school/work, are still horses of a different color.
And besides, that was in the Bronze Bracket, they earned those start times.quote:
Originally posted by mrbama31
Peanut..Peanut...Peanut,
There were games SCHEDULED for SATURDAY night 945PM AT East Cobb this weekend for Triple Crown...I believe it was games 54 and 55...Look it up and then apologize please. Here is a link
http://www.triplecrownsports.com/showbracketgen.asp?tournyid=3847&divisionid=81
quote:
Originally posted by Peanutsr
There is a difference between a game being "scheduled" and actual start time.
Triple crown 11U had no games "scheduled" after 8:00pm. Any games started after 8:00pm were due to other games running over.
The Global Sports Tournament "scheduled" games at 9:45. With other games running over it is quite possible that these games could have started much later.
I don't have a dog in this fight so it really doesn't matter to me. I just think that if you are going to use examples from other tournaments that you should compare apples to apples. quote:
Originally posted by mrbama31
This past weekend Triple Crown had games starting at 945pm on Saturday night in the 11 yr old bracket.
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| mrbama31 |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 15:44:58
Peanut,
The point is that 945pm SCHEDULED games are not unheard of. It happens ..and I was answering the question from Esec2100 or escstars that was have you ever seen this b4...and i was pointing out to them that I saw this happen this past weekend in bracket play at THEIR park.
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| mfraley |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 15:41:57
Mrbama and anybody else that supports this obvious abuse of power, we found out that we were removed from the tournament at 930pm Thursday night, my wife was in Alabama at the time, she browsed the website and saw that we were remove for complaining, she called me and ask me what was going on. I was shocked because I could not imagine such disrespect for so many kids. we are glad she is baseball fanatic or all11 families would have showed up in alabama. I informed Brian and we intensely tried to contact Dee, with no avail, I reached out to the the Guy in north alabama, returned my call around 1130pm, I shared with him the little that I knew, he said, mind you with a chuckle "I have never heard of such." The really strange thing was after he kicked us out the tournament, he cleverly eliminated all Friday games. So at the end of the day, thanks to stars no team had to play late Friday. It makes one wonder if we were the only team that voiced a concern.
I agee that the tournament director should have not asked what the forfeit rules were but to not call and discuss the situation and send us a blind email to inform us your decision is petty and cowardice.
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| Alter-Ego |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 15:17:56
Regarding the pool games starting at 9:45, I have seen that this can be a no-win situation. On one hand, a TD expands the teams to allow for more to play. (yea, I can hear the "That's just more money for him." but there comes a point of deminishing return when adding another team or two is more trouble to manage than the net revenue generated by including them.) which causes him to have to add one more game slot in, which either starts late in the evening, or early in the morning. A lot more people seem to have less of an issue with the late games than a 7:00 am morning game.
The old addage of "You can please all of the people some of the time, or some of the people all the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time." sure rings true for travel baseball. |
| Peanutsr |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 15:13:09
I stand corrected. That being said, a 9:45 playoff game on a Saturday after all the teams are at the park, and a 9:45 pool game on a Friday when teams have to travel after school/work, are still horses of a different color.
And besides, that was in the Bronze Bracket, they earned those start times.quote:
Originally posted by mrbama31
Peanut..Peanut...Peanut,
There were games SCHEDULED for SATURDAY night 945PM AT East Cobb this weekend for Triple Crown...I believe it was games 54 and 55...Look it up and then apologize please. Here is a link
http://www.triplecrownsports.com/showbracketgen.asp?tournyid=3847&divisionid=81
quote:
Originally posted by Peanutsr
There is a difference between a game being "scheduled" and actual start time.
Triple crown 11U had no games "scheduled" after 8:00pm. Any games started after 8:00pm were due to other games running over.
The Global Sports Tournament "scheduled" games at 9:45. With other games running over it is quite possible that these games could have started much later.
I don't have a dog in this fight so it really doesn't matter to me. I just think that if you are going to use examples from other tournaments that you should compare apples to apples. quote:
Originally posted by mrbama31
This past weekend Triple Crown had games starting at 945pm on Saturday night in the 11 yr old bracket.
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