| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| oldschooldad |
Posted - 03/29/2010 : 15:56:18
Just wondering what thoughts folks may have regarding arguing with the umpires after a "bad" call and delaying the game as a result. There are many posts and commits about the quality or lack quality umpiring at various tournament so for this season but I'm talking about coaches agruing for over 5 minutes on a call. It seems pretty straighforward if the coach is yelling or is cursing, he needs to be tossed. However, I 've seen a lot of games when the coach is upset but is not really out of control. Pool games and most bracket games played at tournaments have time limits. When one team is able to shorten a game by stopping play, the other team is at a major disadvantage. What option does the other team or coach have for this waste of time? Also what can be done to teams that are well known for agruing calls. Umpires seem relucate to "stop the clock" but what else can they do? |
| 14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| loveforthegame25 |
Posted - 04/02/2010 : 14:37:39
Im a firm believer of getting umpires on my side. Your never going to get a call by being an arguer. You may get one by being their friend |
| ingasven |
Posted - 04/02/2010 : 10:47:03
I was wearing out a football referee working our sideline during a game a few years back. I never had to be very loud or demonstrative as he was 2 feet from me, but was on him pretty constantly pointing out every mistake his crew was making. This guy just kept taking it and taking it. We come back for the second half and from the first play to the last he commented on every bad play call or defensive strategy I called. He never turned from the game action or said my name directly, but I knew he was talking to me.
I started paying a whole lot less attention to their performance and a heck of a lot more to what I was doing.
I shake his hand and tell him thanks every season I see him working one of my games.
I know some will disagree, but you can't manipulate or control officials, so stop worrying about it.
Don't we constantly tell the kids, "Life isn't fair?" Sports officiating is no different. Stop being hypocritical and work with the hand your dealt. Sure, there may honestly be an occassion when bad officiating cost us a game, but if we're honest with ourselves I bet we can find multiple things we did wrong that were much more costly.
Now, lazy umpires that don't watch the whole play or refuse to move to get into position....that's open game in my opinion to be called out if done the right way.
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| bambino_dad |
Posted - 03/31/2010 : 12:40:51
Arguing with an ump is applied free speech, except you're in an outdoor courtroom with a Cyclops for a judge. It's been this way since the days of Connie Mack and John McGraw. Adding kids to the mix hasn't changed much of anything. The question is at what point does an argument become counter-productive to the goal of winning the game. Sometimes it does, but baseball tends to police itself fairly well in most cases.
The time delay factor is interesting because timekeeping in baseball is basically foreign to the game. The game was invented with outs determining its conclusion. The question then becomes do you sacrifice a tradition (arguing) to an innovation (a timeclock).
I'm a traditionalist. Reduce the heat and amount of arguments with quality umpiring. |
| gasbag |
Posted - 03/31/2010 : 11:59:16
As a coach for many years, I have debated calls before. Not with the intent to change the existing call, but to change the next call ! You have more of an opportunity to influence the upcoming...yet to be made call than reversing an existing call. Also gives the umpire / ref a graceful way out of making up for a bad call. Just a little Psychology 101 !!!! Doesn't always work, but it's well worth the try. |
| BREAMKING |
Posted - 03/31/2010 : 11:30:58
I have always called time out and went and talked to the pitcher and stayed out there long enough for the ump to come out. Then as walked away always make a smart comment. They will usually let you get away with that since you are not confronting them directly and it gets the point across. Gets kinda strange when they do not come out though. lol... |
| Tribe |
Posted - 03/30/2010 : 22:56:22
As coaches, we expect our players to give their all. We demand it. In return, we should manage/coach a game to the best of our ability. If an umpire is bad---consistently bad...it is incumbent upon us as coaches to address the questionable calls...respectfully of course....and in a fashion befitting the honor of the game..But never let your players think you don't care about bad officiating... |
| bstand |
Posted - 03/30/2010 : 14:46:40
I think there is a difference in calmly and privately asking the umpire a question relative to rules/rulings. It is something entirely different to openly argue a call. I have never seen an actual argument with blue go the way the coach expects. Strike zones get pinched, calls get missed, etc., after the argument. Its best to go with the call as much as possible, although sometimes you have to bite really hard on your tongue to make that happen. |
| goinyard |
Posted - 03/30/2010 : 13:41:01
The worst situation i had ever seen was very recent when a coach argued a call very early during a game, which was a close call to begin with. Several minutes and batters later the coach continued to chatter words at the umpires followed by another argued call. The umpire gave a warning to the teams manager, who BTW was not the one arguing. The chatter continued forcing the umpire to ask someone to leave, at which point the assistant head coach who was displaying all the drama look to one of the other assistants for them to leave. This causing an innocent coach to have to leave a game unable to watch his own son play. Fortunately, the umpire saw this and told that coach to stay and watch his son. We've all been in a position where we have argued a bad call but if taken to far, then you should take responsibility for your own actions. After all, isn't responsibility one of the things we should be teaching these kids anyway. Unfortunately, this seems to be the way this team operates in general. One step forward, two steps back. |
| baseballpapa |
Posted - 03/30/2010 : 11:10:46
king, Papa cannot imagine that someone could get irate with such a fine outstanding person such as yourself. Papa carries a cane with a little horn attached to the cane and if I had been at that park I would have came to your defense and stuck my cane in a place that would get that Tournament Director and Umpires attention and when I honked my horn the sound would come out their nose's.
It's good to have you back. |
| kingofthehill |
Posted - 03/30/2010 : 10:52:04
I learned a valuable lesson about agruing during games. I got into an argument with a lady at the concession stand(gave me the wrong change), which prompted the TD to come over and start something, which prompted the TD brother(umpire on my sons field) to come to his defense. At the end of the day, I was banned from the park, the kids were shook up, and we lost most likely because of my distraction. By saying this(me not being a coach) I now feel it is important to let the children play and not be a distraction to umpires or the lady at the concession stand. |
| MadSkills |
Posted - 03/30/2010 : 09:41:02
Arguing with an umpire to kill time or stop the momentum of a team is a little "bush league" to me. Umpires need to control the situation and keep the game moving along. |
| bturner |
Posted - 03/29/2010 : 22:43:57
Our team rule is "we dont argue with the umpire" It is a tough rule when you know a call is wrong, However we follow it. I will ask the umpire if he is sure and I go back to the dugout. We are trying to teach our kids to shake it off and make the next play. It would be hard for them to shake it off if I make a big deal about it.
For anyone who knows me they know how hard this is for me. I have not lost an argument since the third grade (if I had lost one I would argue about it). But I made this team rule several years ago and we follow it.
I understand when coaches do argue but how many times do they actually change the call? Not worth it. Let the kids play and get out of the way.
We had a team do this to us earlier in the year to try and kill time. We simply had our scorekeeper write the times in the scorebook. When time expired the TD was standing behind our score keeper and told the umpire to start a new inning. They went crazy but we played another inning. Did not help 3 up 3 down. Gotta love this game. |
| 3up-3down |
Posted - 03/29/2010 : 20:26:44
We saw that this weekend, they were playing small ball. |
| Alter-Ego |
Posted - 03/29/2010 : 17:10:58
The good umpires I have been around will take a little bit of argument but will quickly say "Hey, if you want to protest, go see the TD, otherwise we have to get back to playing." |
