| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| 3sondad |
Posted - 01/13/2010 : 15:33:40
I signed my youngest up for Pinto (7-8) rec ball at a "large" park and was surprised to hear they only had 110 kids. When my middle son went through this age (just 3 years ago), spring season would have 220-240 kids in just this age group and the fall season they would have 120-140 kids. From what I heard they even had 103 kids this past fall (son plays football). Even though my son played all-stars last year, we try to stay out of the "politics" that can go on throughout a park and do not know if something is going on that we are unaware. I know some of you have younger kids playing rec ball still. I am wondering if this drop in registration is just unique to this park? |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Coach Scott |
Posted - 02/11/2010 : 17:29:48
You said it AA17Dad, the exact reason we left and started travel (tournament) ball. Work hard, race what you bring to the track, no crying, just play, practice and teach baseball (life lessons). |
| meatball |
Posted - 02/10/2010 : 10:57:42
Well said Lefty. For us #2 was the main reason for leaving. That and as AA17Dad said "tournaments are the "Crack Cocaine " of baseball."
Imagine if the county programs were to...
1.) Allow teams to form on their own.
2.) Classify these teams A, AA, & maybe AAA. Don't think you would do Major or Elite because there wouldn't be enough truly competitve teams.
3.) Change to tournament format so that parks play each other.
As for the politics, you will never get away from that. Even in travel there is politics. |
| mikewells |
Posted - 02/10/2010 : 09:49:05
[quote]Originally posted by AA17Dad
Guys I think you have solved all the mysteries of the falling numbers in Rec Ball. ( Politics, Poor Business plans. Lack of leadership. Lack of competition and the Good ole Boy Syndrome have taken their toll )
That says it all Dude !
Some parks around town have lost some of the best kids in town to other parks early years because of their politics .
Are they ashamed ? NO ! Got what they wanted , for their blood to get ahead of the other kids nothing else was important.
Did those kids turn out good ballplayers who were favored by Board Dad ? NO !
|
| LeftyBat |
Posted - 02/10/2010 : 08:51:38
I think the business model has changed and the dinosaur community rec proprieters are unable to adapt and slowly dying off.
Its real simple. Three things...
1. Politics of who gets to play All Stars, who gets to be on what team, who gets to tell who what to do, make the rules (control) rub people the wrong way.
2. People who do want to have kids play at a high level do not want to wait through 6 weeks of playing ball with rec kids, then go through a political process to be selected to a team that is limited to one park, and then have to play into late summer and get their butts kicked by teams not playing by the same rules. Some of us have boats and really think we should be able to use them without missing work.
3. People want to choose the people they play with. The adults get to enter their teams in leagues in Adult softball, why shouldn't the kids?
In my county at every age group, within 25 minutes of each other there are at least 6 and as many as 10 or more travel teams at each age group. Some play within the county system many do not. If the county wants them back, then they simply need to make a league for travel teams and provide them fields for a modest but appropriate fee. The park boards would SCREAM bloody murder as they would lose control of their kingdom. They will hide behind fairness to rec ball kids, they will hide behind the idea that they invested in the park and now these groups are benefiting without contributing. (as if our work when we were in the rec program is now worthless...) Lastly we will hear about how its now fair to have really good teams and teams of have no studs. I'm not talking about letting rec ball teams in this league. Take the space in your park left by the departure of these players who have departed and allocate it to a new league. Think seperate but equal.
By about 8 parents with kids who are motivated and have talent get real tired of having to have their kids play on a team with kids who OBVIOUSLY are not up to the game and never will be, are playing in the dirt in right field for 6-8 weeks before all star teams are selected and their son can get down to real baseball. For a while the parks had the upper hand, as there was no other option, but in a capatilist society, when there is a need for a product and the market is not meeting the need, someone steps in to fill it (as in USSSA, Triple Crown, BPA, Nations, etc...)
But if the county program wants them back address these three issues and they just might come back, along with operating revenue the county needs. |
| AA17Dad |
Posted - 02/10/2010 : 08:25:23
Guys I think you have solved all the mysteries of the falling numbers in Rec Ball. ( Politics, Poor Business plans. Lack of leadership. Lack of competition and the Good ole Boy Syndrome have taken their toll )
But also , lets faces it. Travel ball ( I prefer to call it tournament ball ) is just way more fun for those of us that love playing baseball and being at the ball park. It aint for everyone but tournaments are the
"Crack Cocaine " of baseball. For some of us you just can't get enough of it. Once you try it your hooked.
I don't really see the lower envolvment of rec ball as being a bad thing. The new "A" rating and more teams in "AA" should give everyone the oppertunity to play tournaments. |
| 6bomber |
Posted - 02/09/2010 : 21:41:50
down here in P.C FL. the numbers are way down across the board.
all the local rec leagues (soccer and baseball) are behind this year.
economy has alot to do with it as well as former rec players forming
"travel teams". as a league we tried numerous ways to increase numbers. the most affected were the younger age groups. |
| baseballpapa |
Posted - 02/09/2010 : 20:14:55
I heard that the Little League in Rome, Ga. was folding up. The YMCA was in charge of the Little League but has given up the charter. I have heard that a private group is trying to put it back together but with it being this late I would imagine it will be hard to do. |
| touchemall |
Posted - 02/09/2010 : 15:31:38
I am still hearing numbers are down for rec ball at local parks. Has anyone else heard or seen this? |
| mikewells |
Posted - 01/20/2010 : 10:16:07
quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
quote:
Originally posted by mikewells
wow its a multi answer subject fellas but here is the one i have seen cause it the most :
some parks can get real political about 9 or 10 years age groups and whichever dad-o's have played there cards right well they are on the park board or right lined up with the board then guess where the travel + allstar spots are handed out to coachs and kids.
folks that see writing on the wall are usual smart enough to take a hike right then and there and find travel teams outside the park even other rec teams for allstars.
this has a landslide affect where more and many good kids and coaches take the hike for same factors all of sudden you have a low rec turnout and low performing travel teams.
bad business model if you ask me when your doing it with other familys money to benefit yourselfs , upside is hey it is a free country!
So the people that leave the parks don't use other families' money to benefit themselves?
What,how could they ?!
Not like the park board using familys money to run programs that end up too many times around benefiting their own blood that is my point
Alterego says the same but better said, man ! |
| whits23 |
Posted - 01/19/2010 : 19:13:24
When i had a 9yr old all star team i picked the 12 best players and the league almost folded. I was told i cut one kid who's mom was in charge of concessions and uniforms another kid who's dad was in charge of field maitenence for the program. That is when i realized for the first time politics were involved in sports and sometimes volunteers got favortism to help the leagues.
I also caught tournament fever where we used to have 2-3 postseason tournaments we could now have them every weekend with travel. |
| Alter-Ego |
Posted - 01/19/2010 : 16:09:55
We left the rec league, and went to travel, when I watched, year after year, the director select a coach, before the season even started, to coach the all-star team at the end of the season. By itself, that would not have been a bad thing if there had been a system where the other coaches could nominate players (say nominate 5 players from the league, none of which are from your own team) and the kids with the most nominations make the team.
They expected the coach to pick his team without any formal input. If the coach would have used the season to watch players and determine who the best players were, that would have been fine, but every one I watch just picked their infield, then 3 or 4 other top kids from other teams. Now to their defense, it would have taken a lot of time to try to watch all of the teams enough to hope to see who their best kids are.
I saw a lot of kids that were always better than the coaches picks, that got passed up. These were the kids that soon moved out to play on travel teams.
Just so we are all on the same page, this is not a sour grapes story. I was asked to be "that" coach one year, but did not agree with the way the board had layed out the process, so I declined. If I could not do it right, I did not want to do it at all.
Once out in travel ball you get used to having the opportunity to work with a core of kids, year after year, and help them develop. In league, you have to pick a new team every year and can't put the building blocks together as well. |
| AllStar |
Posted - 01/19/2010 : 14:34:39
quote:
Originally posted by mikewells
wow its a multi answer subject fellas but here is the one i have seen cause it the most :
some parks can get real political about 9 or 10 years age groups and whichever dad-o's have played there cards right well they are on the park board or right lined up with the board then guess where the travel + allstar spots are handed out to coachs and kids.
folks that see writing on the wall are usual smart enough to take a hike right then and there and find travel teams outside the park even other rec teams for allstars.
this has a landslide affect where more and many good kids and coaches take the hike for same factors all of sudden you have a low rec turnout and low performing travel teams.
bad business model if you ask me when your doing it with other familys money to benefit yourselfs , upside is hey it is a free country!
So the people that leave the parks don't use other families' money to benefit themselves? |
| SSBuckeye |
Posted - 01/19/2010 : 13:47:50
I am on the board of a park in north Atlanta and our spring registration numbers are down about 10% this year. Some of that is a few travel teams leaving the park, but the rest is the economy. |
| mikewells |
Posted - 01/19/2010 : 10:23:44
wow its a multi answer subject fellas but here is the one i have seen cause it the most :
some parks can get real political about 9 or 10 years age groups and whichever dad-o's have played there cards right well they are on the park board or right lined up with the board then guess where the travel + allstar spots are handed out to coachs and kids.
folks that see writing on the wall are usual smart enough to take a hike right then and there and find travel teams outside the park even other rec teams for allstars.
this has a landslide affect where more and many good kids and coaches take the hike for same factors all of sudden you have a low rec turnout and low performing travel teams.
bad business model if you ask me when your doing it with other familys money to benefit yourselfs , upside is hey it is a free country! |
| 6bomber |
Posted - 01/18/2010 : 23:11:20
That is the complete oppsite of our situation. Our team started as an All-Star team 7u. That started what is now the Bay Bombers org.
We are now 12u and have always played league ball. We have had some
changes but the core is still there. I do believe that playing
travel ball has helped not only our boys but the league as well.
|
| AllStar |
Posted - 01/18/2010 : 11:30:10
This will be my son's 4th year in travel ball. I thought there were too many teams back then. It's worse now.
I will say that one of our main reasons for doing Travel instead of All Stars early on, was that his travel teams generally finish their seasons on our before July 4. The All Star teams he was on went until late July. We got tired of him not having a summer real quick.
It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Dad A thinks his kid is too good to play in-park and All Stars, so he leaves. Then Dad B thinks the same, then Dad C, etc., etc. With all the Dad's leaving, it becomes a truism that the quality of play in-park deteriorates.
I don't know the solution. Heck, I don't even know if it's really a problem. It's still a free country. |
| 6bomber |
Posted - 01/15/2010 : 12:52:59
i believe there are to many "other" options of how to spend their time. other sports are taking kids. our league is
a LITTLE LEAGUE Org. we had a team a few years ago make the run to PA. and the following years numbers doubled.
just saying that when a parent sees the success, they want to be a part of the winning. |
| BREAMKING |
Posted - 01/14/2010 : 23:21:44
jaguars18 is dead right. Shame this is happening it is weakening travel ball and costing these parents tons of extra money. Sadly there is not much left in most rec. parks talent wise to challenge even a good ball player much less a pretty good one. |
| jaguars18 |
Posted - 01/14/2010 : 15:15:44
i think sharon springs has gone almost entirely travel, in other words all the rec kids are buying uniforms and calling themselves travel teams. And since every other program does the same they will face similar competition. Its still travel ball as you spend ton's of money to have uniforms and go to tournaments to play the same caliber teams you would in rec ball |
| treg3 |
Posted - 01/14/2010 : 14:01:38
We are from vail, just outside Tucsonquote:
Originally posted by Scott0923
treg3, what part of AZ you from? I played college ball out there.
Scott
|
| Scott0923 |
Posted - 01/14/2010 : 11:44:50
treg3, what part of AZ you from? I played college ball out there.
Scott |
| zwndad |
Posted - 01/14/2010 : 10:45:00
In our home park in Gwinnett, there are now at least 6 "travel" teams that are pulling kids out of the 11-12 year-old age group. So, there's just not much talent left in rec. (BTW, at least 3 of these teams are brand new with mostly rec kids.) I have heard that registration is way down in rec at our park this year. I agree with so many on this board that the talent in travel is getting watered down. However, what that really means is that you have a lot of average and above average rec kids who want to play with and against other kids who can actually catch, throw and hit. They're not all trying to reach the Majors. I'm hoping that the new USSSA A and AA splits will help some of the bottom teams find competition that is more their level. That way, everybody has somebody to play. They just have to "travel" across the county or metro area to play. |
| touchemall |
Posted - 01/14/2010 : 10:29:56
I do not know about the situation in Canton but there is plenty of competitive rec ball a little south of you. The closest competitive park to you that is in Cobb may be Hobgood in Woodstock. Others that are really good and fill up each year are Oregon Park, Acworth, East Side, etc. |
| TAZ980002 |
Posted - 01/14/2010 : 09:35:38
The county park my kids play out of has experienced a drop in numbers over the past couple of seasons. Peewee, which is comparable to the Pinto league you mentioned, used to have upwards of 24 teams and last Spring had around 20 teams. Registration just opened last Saturday so it's too early to tell what this season will look like. For us, I think it has been a combination of several things though. Economy, Travel Ball, Lacrosse and Spring Basketball I believe are all taking away from the baseball numbers. |
| touchemall |
Posted - 01/13/2010 : 20:00:03
Outside of those who think baseball year round (not sure who these people are but), they probably don't give much thought to baseball registration when it has not gotten above 30 degrees in the last two weeks. I used to be on a board and there was always a big push the week or so before the end of January. Even in a down economy people are going to try and do all they can to get their kids in to rec ball. I am surprised more travel families have not moved back to rec in this economy to save on money. Not sure where you are at but parks have got to be more creative now to bring in families. For example, canvas the schools pn PTA night, put flyers in mailboxes, provide scholarships to those who cannot afford to play and have the parents work the concession stand or fields to pay the park back through service. |
