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| gwinnettdad |
Posted - 12/24/2009 : 09:15:41
I know this is going to be a topic with alot of diffrent apinions but I was wondering when a Dad should pull his son out of his local park travel team and find a team with better coaching. I seen alot of kids from Gwinnett county leave are travel programs for other teams to get away from politics that run are parks or to get away from daddyball. I'm talking very good ball players most of the time. Then when they do go, you hear everyone at the park say that they are not loyal people. Anyway, where would you draw the line? |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| ddavis |
Posted - 12/30/2009 : 12:58:17
I agree at 9U,10U, and 11U, it should be about the kids. I see parents pulling players off teams each year because they feel their child did not improve from last year. They blame the coaching staff and look for a better program. This is fine, but they do not understand that if your child was a stud at 7 and 8, the playing field will even out a bit at 9U. Kids start really hitting the fastball at 9U and they are looking for it. If a coach is not trying to teach location and off speed, yes blame the coach, but look at the entire picture. I have seen players pulled from teams that had a very successful season, been with the team for 2-3 years, but did not move to a better program. The players are upset because they did not want to move, but they are doing what Mom and Dad wanted. I think being loyal needs to be put on the parents and coaches. At the lower age groups, coaches need to remember it is about developing, mentoring, and having fun, the parents need to understand the same. If you have a solid team, everyone should get playing time. This means daddy (coaches) will have to sit their son sometimes. Last, parents that do jump ship, I just hope the go to a program that is will help the kid and not hurt. Some programs will kill a kids arm, but the parent is ok because their child is the star picture. You have to protect your child. That is our jobs right? Why is an 8-9U child getting his arm iced down so he can pitch the next day? |
| gausssa |
Posted - 12/29/2009 : 23:41:24
Well said Rick Cosper. We both have and continue to go down these types of roads and still agree on so many things. |
| AA17Dad |
Posted - 12/27/2009 : 11:11:23
quote:
Originally posted by gwinnettdad
I don't have a dog in this hunt. My boy would be lucky to make the 11th spot on the worst travel team in Gwinnett. I been around are park for about 10 years and I seen some good players come and go. Last year I seen a kid leave that had really done alot for are park. When he left they did cause of a chance to play on a good EC team and after they did thats all I heard was how disloyal they were for leaving. One person in particular did his best to bring it up in every conversation I had with him. Eventually I just told him it was lowclass and he aught to shut up about it and move on. It just seemed unfair to me. I didn't blame them for leaving. Playing for an EC team brings opportunites that they won't get playing for are park teams. I just don't understand why people can't just be happy for the opportunites others are given or earned.
Jealousy, Envey.
With youth sports EVERY year is a " One Year Contract "
It is silly for any Team,Coach or league to claim the rights of ownership of anyone.
It is very important for " Families " to try to find the 'Right " fit. For their kid/family.
I shake my head every year at coaches that for any number of reasons....Daddyball probably the 1st. that lose their whole team and then blame parents, kids or othe coaches for "stealing " THEIR team.
If you coached a team and no one wants to return to YOUR team I'd say their is a good chance that YOU screwd up.
Some players/families may be looking for a different experience and it is they're dicision to make.
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| gwinnettdad |
Posted - 12/27/2009 : 03:19:43
I don't have a dog in this hunt. My boy would be lucky to make the 11th spot on the worst travel team in Gwinnett. I been around are park for about 10 years and I seen some good players come and go. Last year I seen a kid leave that had really done alot for are park. When he left they did cause of a chance to play on a good EC team and after they did thats all I heard was how disloyal they were for leaving. One person in particular did his best to bring it up in every conversation I had with him. Eventually I just told him it was lowclass and he aught to shut up about it and move on. It just seemed unfair to me. I didn't blame them for leaving. Playing for an EC team brings opportunites that they won't get playing for are park teams. I just don't understand why people can't just be happy for the opportunites others are given or earned. |
| bmoser |
Posted - 12/25/2009 : 08:59:45
SouthSide24,
I agree with you, at 10U let the boys decide. |
| mikewells |
Posted - 12/25/2009 : 00:26:29
quote:
Originally posted by coachdan06
quote:
Originally posted by gwinnettdad
I know this is going to be a topic with alot of diffrent apinions but I was wondering when a Dad should pull his son out of his local park travel team and find a team with better coaching. I seen alot of kids from Gwinnett county leave are travel programs for other teams to get away from politics that run are parks or to get away from daddyball. I'm talking very good ball players most of the time. Then when they do go, you hear everyone at the park say that they are not loyal people. Anyway, where would you draw the line?
Loyal I think you already answered your own question why would they leave get away from politics that run are parks or to get away from daddyball.
Can I suggest that every park of any size has this problem to some degree and it ultimately comes from the Top Brass of program not having the kahunas to stop those dynamics, heck many times they are right in the middle of creating it !
Cant think where too many opinions of difference come back on this topic , nobody of salt wants will hang around for it too long : the smarter you are the quicker you leave and never consider going back.
Then those parks they become weak like you said , their travel teams become weak and you have sub competitive level players participating the teams are losing record teams.
The whole deal is a flop , I ask you why would anyone of salt stay around to watch that - "loyalty" to what ?!
you got it Dan-O loyalty is subjective .
Why hang in with a lot of nonsense that doesnt benefit anyone but the men coaching the teams there families there friends ya know,
So if the kid was good who left that's the parks problem for allowing it to go that far last I head the good ol USA is still a free country !
You earn your good teams your good players by playing it straight not by dad balling it cuz in the end it all craters I watched that happen right down the road here in no fltn cnty |
| sirlurker |
Posted - 12/24/2009 : 21:40:15
Well this was our experience...some rec depts run better programs then others but while ours was "ok", it really didn't challenge the better players..each yr you would start over on a team where over half the kids never played before and had to be taught the basics of catching and throwing...which is fine..that is what rec is built for..but my son never felt challenged...when he was offered a chance to try out for a travel ball team he was so excited and all for it..it was his parents that were a little reluctant to try something different..but we felt it was an opportunity to play with better players against better teams..so how could he not get better as well?...two yrs later we were offered a try out for an elite travel team and soon as my boy heard what team was interested in him, he was all for it...again the hesitation was on his parents end...in the the end we decided to do what he wanted and what felt best to advance his talent and skills..we did not "burn" our bridges at the rec level and continued to stay in touch but I'm sure some felt we were disloyal as we had been on the same rec team for several yrs and were always expected to do allstars - both which we gave up to do travel. Our son was always the one who wanted to do travel...if you don't think 9, 10, 11, 12 year olds don't know the difference between rec and travel I think you are mistaken..and don't get me wrong there are some very good rec leagues out there but in our situation even the so-so travel teams we came across from time to time were much better than our best rec teams...Each time we made a move we wrote down the pros and cons and consider what was best for our son...and ultimately it was his choice of where to play and who to play for... |
| whits23 |
Posted - 12/24/2009 : 20:08:37
I guess i would bring up the other side.do you expect a coach to be loyal or do you mind having a new tryout each year.
I have done it both ways, i was loyal and let anyone who wanted to come back and i have had teams where i took the best team i could put together. I honestly feel most parents want to play travel as they want to face good competition, however most do not want to face competition for starting spots within their team. That is what prepares you for high school. COmpeting day in and day out to win a spot. |
| SouthSide24 |
Posted - 12/24/2009 : 16:10:58
Seems to me, and just what i have seen is that the Parents make the decision to move on to another team.. If they would ask their kid if they want to leave certain team, my guess would be prolly not. Ages 10, 11, and 12 is all parent ego..et the kid have some fun.
I really enjoy seeing these parents of 'studs' at 11u and 12u when they reach 14U, it is great seeing them leave the game bcz they can't handle seeing their son struggle. Game is all fun till 13U imo then you seek out best coach, etc.
And no, you are not loyal.
ASK YOUR KID WHAT HE WANTS, IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU at 10u-12U. |
| bmoser |
Posted - 12/24/2009 : 14:46:19
let me add my thoughts regarding loyalty:
My #1 loyalty is to my son's happiness, development, and well-being. The loyalty I feel towards our clusters' youth sports programs are a very distant 2nd. It matters not what they said about me after I left. Sticks and stones...
I still root for their teams, go to their big games, and wish them all the best because its not the adults I'm concerned with, its the kids. The kids are still my son's friends, classmates and neighborhood play pals. Nothing the adults do, or say, will ever stop me from supporting their kids.
Yes, I'm disloyal to them, but I went to more Rec, Rec playoff, and All-Star games at my local park than they did (even though my son hasn't played there in 4 years), so I'm not disloyal to their kids.
On this topic, a special thanks to all the folks at our new home parks for making us feel welcomed. They know who they are, and both groups are represented on this forum.
Maybe this is what you were really looking for gwinnettdad. Merry Christmas!
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| gasbag |
Posted - 12/24/2009 : 13:32:48
There is politics and lots of daddyball until you get to older age groups and even then you will not escape the politics . I observed this at a young age for my my sons and decided that instead of switching and leaving the park, I'd get involved, coach my own son and firmly resolved to not play "daddyball". My mission, develop all the kids on my team vs. focusing on just my kid or the most advanced kids. It's a win / win situation as I got to spend more time with both of my sons throughout their youth sports careers and had a riot doing it. No one got mad at me and I maintained favorable status at our park. |
| Injun Chief |
Posted - 12/24/2009 : 13:19:08
If the goal is to play at the college level .. 15/U would be a good time ...
Unfortunately, daddy ball is still prevelant at that age ...
Research the coach thoroughly though !! |
| coachdan06 |
Posted - 12/24/2009 : 12:53:42
quote:
Originally posted by gwinnettdad
I know this is going to be a topic with alot of diffrent apinions but I was wondering when a Dad should pull his son out of his local park travel team and find a team with better coaching. I seen alot of kids from Gwinnett county leave are travel programs for other teams to get away from politics that run are parks or to get away from daddyball. I'm talking very good ball players most of the time. Then when they do go, you hear everyone at the park say that they are not loyal people. Anyway, where would you draw the line?
Loyal I think you already answered your own question why would they leave get away from politics that run are parks or to get away from daddyball.
Can I suggest that every park of any size has this problem to some degree and it ultimately comes from the Top Brass of program not having the kahunas to stop those dynamics, heck many times they are right in the middle of creating it !
Cant think where too many opinions of difference come back on this topic , nobody of salt wants will hang around for it too long : the smarter you are the quicker you leave and never consider going back.
Then those parks they become weak like you said , their travel teams become weak and you have sub competitive level players participating the teams are losing record teams.
The whole deal is a flop , I ask you why would anyone of salt stay around to watch that - "loyalty" to what ?! |
| bmoser |
Posted - 12/24/2009 : 12:10:43
We left Gwinnett, so here's my take...
First question to ask yourself is not when, but if you should leave your local park in the first place.
Ask...
How does my son feel about leaving? Ask him open-ended ?'s to get him talking and not yes/no's, then listen closely, and objectively.
Do you both feel he is being treated unfairly due to daddy-ball and/or politics? Could a new team w/in the park solve this?
Do you feel he is getting adequate field time to practice/play?
Are the practice/game times/days optimal for your family as a whole?
How does my son feel about his Coaches? His teammates? How do these feelings impact his enjoyment?
Does my son adapt well to new environments, & easily make new friends?
Am I sure his current Coaching isn't the best w/in your doable travel radius? Have you watched others and spoken to parents elsewhere?
Can I afford the added cost a new team might entail?
Do I have the time to drive further & how will that impact my family?
The answers to these questions should reveal a path. If your son plays other sports, leaving for baseball can impact his treatment in football and hoops too. He could get dropped from the "A" team/s.
Your son needs to know this now, so there are no surprises later.
If you decide to leave, then when is the best time to leave?
Never leave during a season. Try to avoid leaving just before the season begins. Try to give his Coach time to find a replacement. GGBL annual Coaches meeting is Jan 10th, and rosters are likely due shortly thereafter, and practices begin ~Feb 1st I think. This is not the optimal time, but its acceptable.
Find his new team first, just like you would a job. Attend a practice, or two. make sure its a proper fit.
I would try to make your decision before the Jan 10th Coaches meeting. Never burn bridges and choose your words carefully on the way out. Thank your sons Coach for having him, & working with him.
Hope this helps. Worked out for us. Reach me off line if you care to discuss. I'm always available, and can put you in touch with others who have made this difficult decision to hear their views.
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| Alter-Ego |
Posted - 12/24/2009 : 11:58:40
Your loyalty lies with your kid. The first priority should be to put them in the right situation for "THEM". If you want to show loyalty to a local park, go back and help them do things at the park that will benefit other kids, like annual field restoration, hosting a tournament, be on the board, etc. All those things can be done in parallel to your kid being on a team that is best for him. |
| blosee |
Posted - 12/24/2009 : 11:37:55
quote:
Originally posted by gwinnettdad
I know this is going to be a topic with alot of diffrent apinions but I was wondering when a Dad should pull his son out of his local park travel team and find a team with better coaching. I seen alot of kids from Gwinnett county leave are travel programs for other teams to get away from politics that run are parks or to get away from daddyball. I'm talking very good ball players most of the time. Then when they do go, you hear everyone at the park say that they are not loyal people. Anyway, where would you draw the line?
Disclaimer- The team my son plays for, the coach does not have a son on the team.
As of late I hear this cliché “Daddy Ball” seemingly more than ever. I often ponder a bunch of questions and here they are
1) Who would coach thousands of kids if not for Daddies?
2) I believe you have some of the same biases when there is not a Daddy that coaches a particular team.
3) Aren’t there situations where the coach is close friends with the parents and shows a little favoritism towards that kid?
4) Do we sometimes magnify what we perceive as Daddy ball when favoritism involves the coach’s son?
5) Do some coaches sell their own sons short because he is afraid of being accused of playing the notorious phase “Daddy Ball”?
6) Is there Daddy ball played from the stands? (I’ll clarify in my next question)
7) Do parents threaten to switch teams when the coach doesn’t coach their son or daughter exactly the way they want them coached or play him in a position that they want him to play?
8) Is this a form of Daddy ball?
9) Do we owe the dads who coach a little bit of leeway with his sons playing time or position due to the countless volunteer hours he puts in?
10) Are some parents a little jealous of the coaches’ kid because of all the hard work the coach puts in with his son away from regular practice and therefore he’s better than their own son?
I realize that some guys are egregiously showing favoritism and putting their kid’s needs and wants in front of the other kids and the team. If that’s you, shame on you. But, for you guys doing your best, being critiqued and bashed by parents in the stands for every decision involving your kid, forgive us!
I wrote these questions to encourage parents to have more one on one dialog with the coach instead of voicing your concerns from the stands. If the coach can’t give a legitimate reason for the playing time, batting order and positioning of your kid. Then you should consider other options. In closing I would like to thank all you guys who take out to coach all the kids even if you have one on the team. Who would coach the enormous amount of kids wanting to play if not for Daddies? Thanks guys for the “Daddy Ball”
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| wildcats9596 |
Posted - 12/24/2009 : 11:29:46
quote:
Originally posted by gwinnettdad
I know this is going to be a topic with alot of diffrent apinions but I was wondering when a Dad should pull his son out of his local park travel team and find a team with better coaching. I seen alot of kids from Gwinnett county leave are travel programs for other teams to get away from politics that run are parks or to get away from daddyball. I'm talking very good ball players most of the time. Then when they do go, you hear everyone at the park say that they are not loyal people. Anyway, where would you draw the line?
You're loyalty is to your son. I will say though, that if the coach is committed and trying his best, you probably owe him open and honest communications and explanation.
Good luck getting away from politics. They are everywhere in every age group. |
| Rick Cosper |
Posted - 12/24/2009 : 11:19:37
There isn't a line to be drawn. A parent should do what's in the very best interest of thier child no matter what. This isn't just in sports, its in every aspect of your child's life.
As for athletics, some may complain but there's just as many and probably more that are glad to see you go because now their child will have a better opportunity to grow and developed by not sitting on the bench.
Don’t worry about what someone else thinks or says, do what's best for your child's growth and development on and off the field. It’s called parenting. |
| Goin Deep |
Posted - 12/24/2009 : 11:16:45
you do what is best for your kid....The reality is, only about 10-15% of kids are elite players at any age in rec ball...If they shine above others, take them to a place where they can play with others of equal/better ability. It will only make them better. If that is not your current park/team, Oh well.... |
| 12uCoach |
Posted - 12/24/2009 : 11:14:43
1. They are kids, where they play should not matter, the only exception is those who own small business in a small town and their child is the #1 pitcher & SS & #4 hitter and the rising High School QB. Business trumps what is best for the child.
2. They are kids, cream risies, if little Chuckie does not play with the kids he is going to be playing with in High School because Daddy wants to take him to play for a coach that is better than what was offered. Why should you care? When has winning before High School become so important.
3. It is usually the eventual JV kids whoses parents claim lack of loyalty, since without superstar Chuckie, their little Johnny will have to settle for a participation trophy instead of 1st place trophy.
4. Play for the best coach, play everyday, have fun. That is what matters. |
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