| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| 743 |
Posted - 02/27/2017 : 11:23:00
What are your thoughts on teams not attending awards ceremony because they lost in the finals so coach takes them to another field to run instead? I remember same particular park when my son was 13 same thing refused to accept a 2nd place trophy or even show after we beat them in the championship. |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Bravemom |
Posted - 03/08/2017 : 05:59:05
quote:
Originally posted by DecaturDad
I have watched my son play travel ball for the past nine years. During that time, his teams have won and lost a lot of championship games. NEVER has his team, or the opposing team walked away from the awards ceremony. Since baseball is a game where players fail more often then they succeed, I see this as a way to learn to loss with class. And in the end, we are all trying to teach our kids valuable life lessons.
Well said! |
| Punishers |
Posted - 03/07/2017 : 04:32:30
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by ofs13
quote:
Originally posted by Gapper
I think the first and second place trophies are fine and that both teams should attend in lieu of "punishment" running.
However, I don't think there should be any trophies handed out for Silver, Bronze or any other color/metal bracket that doesn't represent the top two teams in the tournament. Nothing is more annoying than seeing the team that tweets their "tournament win" when in fact they went 0-2 in pool play but was the best 0-2 team in the bronze bracket. Funny how those parents never mention that. Any bracket other than the top bracket should strictly be for getting in additional work and games. Tournament organizers need to scrap the awards for anything other than the top bracket.
But you're ok with a Gold bracket MAJ team claiming their undefeated run when they beat up on two AA or AAA teams in pool play when the tournament didn't offer the option for those teams to sign up for a lower division? Not saying I disagree w/ your post, but let's call it both ways. If a MAJ team can throw their #9-12 pitchers in pool play & reserve their top pitchers for Sunday, it's not the same as when they need those top pitchers in pool play too.
Now, I definitely think offering tournament births to winners of lower brackets (Silver, Bronze, etc...) is a little silly, but then again, how often are teams really playing for those births anyway.
This goes back to having just one class. No silver, bronze, copper or nickel brackets. Just sign up for your age group and pay hard. Loosing is a learning experience of what not to do next time.
O on keyboard stuck again. **** Starbucks. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 03/06/2017 : 11:02:11
quote:
Originally posted by DecaturDad
I have watched my son play travel ball for the past nine years. During that time, his teams have won and lost a lot of championship games. NEVER has his team, or the opposing team walked away from the awards ceremony. Since baseball is a game where players fail more often then they succeed, I see this as a way to learn to loss with class. And in the end, we are all trying to teach our kids valuable life lessons.
^^^^^^^^YUP |
| DecaturDad |
Posted - 03/06/2017 : 08:19:15
I have watched my son play travel ball for the past nine years. During that time, his teams have won and lost a lot of championship games. NEVER has his team, or the opposing team walked away from the awards ceremony. Since baseball is a game where players fail more often then they succeed, I see this as a way to learn to loss with class. And in the end, we are all trying to teach our kids valuable life lessons. |
| Crazyforbball |
Posted - 03/05/2017 : 19:07:40
As far as one bracket win it or not, I agree in theory as far as being competitors, but it does give alot more kids the opportunity to get more games in and for the big $$ we pay for the tourneys it seems ok to give everyone a little more bang for the buck. Who cares who posts what? We all know who won the gold. If you want to stick with one bracket only stick with PG where the winner is the winner. Period. As far as majors teams beating up on AA teams cuz no lower division is offered, I would say when you see the lineup piling on all the majors teams, opt out of that one for later in the season where there ARE multiple divisions...many post those early. Alot of the early tourneys (i.e. Spring Frost) are a good chance to see where your boys stack up against all levels of competition. They might surprise you. On the other hand if you do get beat up in pool play then that's where those silver and bronze brackets come into play! Finally as far as the coach not showing up and running the boys, maybe perceived as a little unsportsmanlike, probably could have given the winners their "moment" but coach is coming from a different mindset there and EVERY kid on that team definitely knew what they were signing up for, no spirit breaking going on there, just the way they do it and completely expected by every player there. |
| Punishers |
Posted - 03/03/2017 : 15:13:16
quote:
Originally posted by ofs13
quote:
Originally posted by Gapper
I think the first and second place trophies are fine and that both teams should attend in lieu of "punishment" running.
However, I don't think there should be any trophies handed out for Silver, Bronze or any other color/metal bracket that doesn't represent the top two teams in the tournament. Nothing is more annoying than seeing the team that tweets their "tournament win" when in fact they went 0-2 in pool play but was the best 0-2 team in the bronze bracket. Funny how those parents never mention that. Any bracket other than the top bracket should strictly be for getting in additional work and games. Tournament organizers need to scrap the awards for anything other than the top bracket.
But you're ok with a Gold bracket MAJ team claiming their undefeated run when they beat up on two AA or AAA teams in pool play when the tournament didn't offer the option for those teams to sign up for a lower division? Not saying I disagree w/ your post, but let's call it both ways. If a MAJ team can throw their #9-12 pitchers in pool play & reserve their top pitchers for Sunday, it's not the same as when they need those top pitchers in pool play too.
Now, I definitely think offering tournament births to winners of lower brackets (Silver, Bronze, etc...) is a little silly, but then again, how often are teams really playing for those births anyway.
This goes back to having just one class. No silver, bronze, copper or nickel brackets. Just sign up for your age group and pay hard. Loosing is a learning experience of what not to do next time. |
| Juniors Grades |
Posted - 03/03/2017 : 13:35:01
I think at this age and older some of these ceremonies are more for the parents than the kids. At this level it should be more about the competition, getting better and learning to play within a team. Should the team have stayed and watched the other team accept the first place trophy and medals? Maybe, but I don't think it's that big of an issue.
As for the running afterwards, if that is what the coach feels is necessary to make a point in the moment then I'm ok with that. I actually think the running had more to do with overall play for the weekend rather than just one game. Obviously the running after the game does not fix short term and long term opportunities.
With that said though the winning team won that game, the losing team did not lose it. They hit the ball very well and their starting pitcher did a fantastic job of managing the game. |
| Hurricane |
Posted - 03/03/2017 : 11:49:40
Got to jump in as well.
Best coach I ever coached with never said a word about the score or the win he used to tell the kids they could tear the scoreboard down for all he cared as long as they played hard respected the game and didn't make mental errors. |
| dbat99 |
Posted - 03/03/2017 : 11:32:14
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
Other than lining up and congratulating the other team with "good (great) game" in terms of shaking hands or 'half-hugs', I don't see the problem.
I didn't see the Falcons on the field for the Patriots "award" ceremonies... I didn't see Alabama on the field for Clemson's "award" ceremonies...
Now, if you're saying the team didn't even shake hands, and acknowledge a 'good game' to the winner, now THAT is poor sportsmanship. But not lining up to get recognized as 'first loser' or making sure the winner "feels better" that my team is standing there...???? Nah. No biggie. Give me my teams box of 'trinkets' and I'll let them take one if they want, and we'll head to the house (or run, or whatever).
Sorry, my team isn't here to make your team 'feel better' after battle.
I'm curious Turn Two, you are talking pretty big, care to fill us in on teams that you've coached through the years?
Only point, I'll make here...A few years ago my kids team beat 643 in the semis to go to the 'ship. 643 was a far better team, we just were better that day. We lost in the 'ship to another good team, and since it was a USSSA tourney, we got rings. It was the first ring my kid got and one he is very proud of still. He knows who they beat to get there and he remembers his role in that game. Sometimes the goal isn't to win, it's to advance further than you have in the past.
Not all teams can be the Astros and have coaches feel that they better win or else you run, which is ridiculous since they lost 10-0. |
| ofs13 |
Posted - 03/03/2017 : 11:22:43
quote:
Originally posted by Gapper
I think the first and second place trophies are fine and that both teams should attend in lieu of "punishment" running.
However, I don't think there should be any trophies handed out for Silver, Bronze or any other color/metal bracket that doesn't represent the top two teams in the tournament. Nothing is more annoying than seeing the team that tweets their "tournament win" when in fact they went 0-2 in pool play but was the best 0-2 team in the bronze bracket. Funny how those parents never mention that. Any bracket other than the top bracket should strictly be for getting in additional work and games. Tournament organizers need to scrap the awards for anything other than the top bracket.
But you're ok with a Gold bracket MAJ team claiming their undefeated run when they beat up on two AA or AAA teams in pool play when the tournament didn't offer the option for those teams to sign up for a lower division? Not saying I disagree w/ your post, but let's call it both ways. If a MAJ team can throw their #9-12 pitchers in pool play & reserve their top pitchers for Sunday, it's not the same as when they need those top pitchers in pool play too.
Now, I definitely think offering tournament births to winners of lower brackets (Silver, Bronze, etc...) is a little silly, but then again, how often are teams really playing for those births anyway. |
| Gapper |
Posted - 03/03/2017 : 09:33:48
I think the first and second place trophies are fine and that both teams should attend in lieu of "punishment" running.
However, I don't think there should be any trophies handed out for Silver, Bronze or any other color/metal bracket that doesn't represent the top two teams in the tournament. Nothing is more annoying than seeing the team that tweets their "tournament win" when in fact they went 0-2 in pool play but was the best 0-2 team in the bronze bracket. Funny how those parents never mention that. Any bracket other than the top bracket should strictly be for getting in additional work and games. Tournament organizers need to scrap the awards for anything other than the top bracket. |
| brball |
Posted - 03/02/2017 : 23:06:58
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
This bring back memories. There was only 1 trophy when I was a youth playing and it went to the winner. Everyone shook hands in spirit of game effort. Have to keep in mind we live in an age where everyone gets an award and wants to feel special. Loosing sucks, and there is no one who says I feel good about loosing. Don't have to stay for the award, but still shake hands.
Loosing? I always feel good when I get a little loose! Just saying,
1st, 2nd or 13th... these are kids we're talking about, so let them be that. If that means accepting a 2nd place trinket that they probably want anyway, then just stick around for the 10 minute pony show and show respect to the champion and congratulate your team on making it there. I mean, you've been there all day, what's another 10 minutes or so? Life lesson = look where we just got, now let's finish the deal next week!
My 2 cents and could go on, but I hate typing on a phone...
Wishing everyone good luck, health and success this season! |
| Punishers |
Posted - 03/02/2017 : 21:14:54
This bring back memories. There was only 1 trophy when I was a youth playing and it went to the winner. Everyone shook hands in spirit of game effort. Have to keep in mind we live in an age where everyone gets an award and wants to feel special. Loosing sucks, and there is no one who says I feel good about loosing. Don't have to stay for the award, but still shake hands. |
| BaseballMom6 |
Posted - 03/02/2017 : 14:53:44
1 - these are kids we are talking about, 2 - this is a game that is supposed to be fun.
Kids that are afraid to make a mistake for fear of retribution from an overbearing coach/parent are more likely to make a mistake and not enjoy the game.
I'm not one for participation trophies, but it takes work to make it to the 'ship in the first place. This is about the kids, not you.
It may not be fun to be on the losing end of a game, but sticking around for 15 minutes and acknowledging the winners as they receive their award, or graciously accepting a lesser award, is an important life lesson as well.
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| bama21 |
Posted - 03/02/2017 : 12:50:24
I would imagine the attendance at an awards ceremony would depend on the tournament. I doubt PG has very many issues with 2nd and 3rd place teams not sticking around, as there are always pictures of the runner-ups on their site. |
| 743 |
Posted - 03/02/2017 : 11:13:20
I guess when you are getting paid big money to play professionally, then you can do whatever you want but kids, come on. If you told them they could stay for the ceremony I bet 90% or more would stay but when you tell them the awards are in a box in the dugout get one if you want it I am sure you persuade them to do what you want them to do, not what they want to do. Maybe a team should be rewarded for playing hard all weekend and finishing in the top 2.
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| mikepayne |
Posted - 03/02/2017 : 10:51:19
You sure do have to beat a lot of good teams these days to even make the championship. Calling kids that fall short in what is at least their 5th game of the weekend "first loser" seems like taking our eye off of the ball. If we all just hope for good baseball I promise you, it will be more enjoyable. I do agree with getting rid of second place trophies. Congratulate the winners, respect the game and try to be a good teammate. The rest will take care of itself.
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| turntwo |
Posted - 03/02/2017 : 09:54:56
quote:
Originally posted by oneZone
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
quote:
Originally posted by oneZone
You also referenced two championship award ceremonies that don't traditionally involve the second-place finisher, so those are irrelevant.
Not exactly at the same level, but let's say your kid wins Olympic bronze in 202X: You gonna tell him to take his trinket and head to the house? Or, what if you show up to the "award" ceremony, but his podium is empty because coach has him running till he pukes outside the stadium?
I just picked the two most recent championships. But more pointed, does the loser in the World Series stay on the field during the presentation of the trophy, as a way to "respectfully acknowledge" the winner? Nope. Nor in the NBA.
You tell me it's not the same level, then you're going to turn around and compare it to the OLYMPICS??? Really? 99% of all Olympic sports are INDIVIDUAL sports. You're not even in the same universe with that comparison.
My opinion (which that's all it is), is that if my team didn't earn the championship, I could care less about being acknowledged as the first loser. Secondly, as long as I shake hands and congratulate the winner, I do not feel it's unsportsmanlike to not stand next to them.
I guess I'm teaching my kids 2 things.... 1- when you're not the winner, there is no stage time-- not even shared with the winner. Want the stage time? Earn (win) it. 2- Strive to be the best. Do not settle for less. If you fall short of your ultimate goal, do not celebrate failure.
The real world, outside of youth sports, is a cold-harsh world. There's small lessons we as parents can begin teaching-- NO not at 6, 7, 8 years old... but maybe at 12's or higher... Apply for a job, and don't get selected? Stick around and be respectful of the person who did?
No thanks.
The point is this: Do you feel so strongly about this that you would SKIP the traditional post-tourney ceremony between first- and second-place finishers that I'm pretty sure I've seen at EVERY travel baseball tourney that I've ever been to, just because you LOST?
And have you ever actually done that? Or have you participated as the second-place finisher?
Just curious, because not being a fan of the ceremony is one thing. But being "that guy" who skips it is a whole 'nother.
By the way, the two lessons you mention are great. But I think those only work if you're explaining why they stopped doing this ceremony at tournaments (after you sent around your petition, lol), not if you're trying to explain why you skipped out on the ceremony to go run your team on the other field. Most folks would have a hard time believing you were doing anything but being a sore loser and modeling a bad attitude for your players.
While I'm not 'tyrannical' and make my team run directly after losing the 'ship (that's over board)-- the boys may have some more 'intense' practices the following week, sure.
I've let my teams know, we 'in it to win it'. If we're not first, they are NOT required to stay for the 'ceremony'. They WILL be expected to shake hands, and congratulate the winner, but beyond that, I could care less. Most 'ships are later in the day, after a long day (weekend)... No need in prolonging it.
I've never once had a parent or tourney director complain about us not attending the 'ceremony'. I simply ask, 'leave the box of awards in the dugout' and they do. At that point, the boys can take one if they want, or not. I do not judge, as I don't care-- if they want to 'brag' about it, fine, they earn being in the top 2, but I just don't want them to become complacent with losing or being runner-up. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 03/02/2017 : 08:25:18
quote:
Originally posted by Critical Mass
The coach is an idiot for running his kids for losing. It screams "execute in the game or else you will run." That's exactly what you want, kids playing tight because they fear making a mistake and being punished. #Moron
Agree! It's not a good thing to see a player boot a ball and rather than go after it he looks over to the dugout with a deer in the headlights look because he's afraid of what the coach will do to him now.
There is a line the coach has to walk that shows he has faith in his players AND he's willing to replace a player if he has a bad day. I'm very glad I do not have to walk that line but I have seen it crossed with very bad consequences for the team and the player. |
| Critical Mass |
Posted - 03/02/2017 : 07:35:44
The coach is an idiot for running his kids for losing. It screams "execute in the game or else you will run." That's exactly what you want, kids playing tight because they fear making a mistake and being punished. #Moron |
| bfriendly |
Posted - 03/02/2017 : 02:13:27
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
I think it's poor sportsmanship.
No one wants second place, and if you want to have a smash party in the parking lot with your second place trophies, go for it! However, when handing out the trophies it isn't about YOU getting second it's about congratulating the team that got first.
THIS^^^^^^^ would be my thoughts on it as well. I try to instigate that "Smash Party" if we are on the receiving side of 1st LOSER..............I try to teach my kid that second place sucks and deserves NO PRIZE; and yes I have told my son several times he needs to throw that piece of trash in the garbage where it belongs . He has not followed that lead yet, but he gets my idea. That said, we will be true GAMERS and show respect for the winning team.
ok, lemme flip all that too..........if Both teams walked across the field and gave each other high fives and "Good game" gestures.............maybe an extra "Way to hit a baseball son" type comments from the coach to deserved players, then no need to be there for an awards ceremony.
I think the Governing bodies of the tourneys should stop giving out Runner up trophies at all..........it would also save money on junk hardware
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| oneZone |
Posted - 03/01/2017 : 17:30:22
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
quote:
Originally posted by oneZone
You also referenced two championship award ceremonies that don't traditionally involve the second-place finisher, so those are irrelevant.
Not exactly at the same level, but let's say your kid wins Olympic bronze in 202X: You gonna tell him to take his trinket and head to the house? Or, what if you show up to the "award" ceremony, but his podium is empty because coach has him running till he pukes outside the stadium?
I just picked the two most recent championships. But more pointed, does the loser in the World Series stay on the field during the presentation of the trophy, as a way to "respectfully acknowledge" the winner? Nope. Nor in the NBA.
You tell me it's not the same level, then you're going to turn around and compare it to the OLYMPICS??? Really? 99% of all Olympic sports are INDIVIDUAL sports. You're not even in the same universe with that comparison.
My opinion (which that's all it is), is that if my team didn't earn the championship, I could care less about being acknowledged as the first loser. Secondly, as long as I shake hands and congratulate the winner, I do not feel it's unsportsmanlike to not stand next to them.
I guess I'm teaching my kids 2 things.... 1- when you're not the winner, there is no stage time-- not even shared with the winner. Want the stage time? Earn (win) it. 2- Strive to be the best. Do not settle for less. If you fall short of your ultimate goal, do not celebrate failure.
The real world, outside of youth sports, is a cold-harsh world. There's small lessons we as parents can begin teaching-- NO not at 6, 7, 8 years old... but maybe at 12's or higher... Apply for a job, and don't get selected? Stick around and be respectful of the person who did?
No thanks.
The point is this: Do you feel so strongly about this that you would SKIP the traditional post-tourney ceremony between first- and second-place finishers that I'm pretty sure I've seen at EVERY travel baseball tourney that I've ever been to, just because you LOST?
And have you ever actually done that? Or have you participated as the second-place finisher?
Just curious, because not being a fan of the ceremony is one thing. But being "that guy" who skips it is a whole 'nother.
By the way, the two lessons you mention are great. But I think those only work if you're explaining why they stopped doing this ceremony at tournaments (after you sent around your petition, lol), not if you're trying to explain why you skipped out on the ceremony to go run your team on the other field. Most folks would have a hard time believing you were doing anything but being a sore loser and modeling a bad attitude for your players.
|
| turntwo |
Posted - 03/01/2017 : 16:24:22
quote:
Originally posted by oneZone
You also referenced two championship award ceremonies that don't traditionally involve the second-place finisher, so those are irrelevant.
Not exactly at the same level, but let's say your kid wins Olympic bronze in 202X: You gonna tell him to take his trinket and head to the house? Or, what if you show up to the "award" ceremony, but his podium is empty because coach has him running till he pukes outside the stadium?
I just picked the two most recent championships. But more pointed, does the loser in the World Series stay on the field during the presentation of the trophy, as a way to "respectfully acknowledge" the winner? Nope. Nor in the NBA.
You tell me it's not the same level, then you're going to turn around and compare it to the OLYMPICS??? Really? 99% of all Olympic sports are INDIVIDUAL sports. You're not even in the same universe with that comparison.
My opinion (which that's all it is), is that if my team didn't earn the championship, I could care less about being acknowledged as the first loser. Secondly, as long as I shake hands and congratulate the winner, I do not feel it's unsportsmanlike to not stand next to them.
I guess I'm teaching my kids 2 things.... 1- when you're not the winner, there is no stage time-- not even shared with the winner. Want the stage time? Earn (win) it. 2- Strive to be the best. Do not settle for less. If you fall short of your ultimate goal, do not celebrate failure.
The real world, outside of youth sports, is a cold-harsh world. There's small lessons we as parents can begin teaching-- NO not at 6, 7, 8 years old... but maybe at 12's or higher... Apply for a job, and don't get selected? Stick around and be respectful of the person who did?
No thanks. |
| oneZone |
Posted - 03/01/2017 : 13:48:01
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
Other than lining up and congratulating the other team with "good (great) game" in terms of shaking hands or 'half-hugs', I don't see the problem.
I didn't see the Falcons on the field for the Patriots "award" ceremonies... I didn't see Alabama on the field for Clemson's "award" ceremonies...
Now, if you're saying the team didn't even shake hands, and acknowledge a 'good game' to the winner, now THAT is poor sportsmanship. But not lining up to get recognized as 'first loser' or making sure the winner "feels better" that my team is standing there...???? Nah. No biggie. Give me my teams box of 'trinkets' and I'll let them take one if they want, and we'll head to the house (or run, or whatever).
Sorry, my team isn't here to make your team 'feel better' after battle.
Who said anything about making the other team "feel better"? You quoted it twice, but I don't see it in any of the other comments. Pretty sure most people wouldn't consider that a good reason to participate.
You also referenced two championship award ceremonies that don't traditionally involve the second-place finisher, so those are irrelevant.
Not exactly at the same level, but let's say your kid wins Olympic bronze in 202X: You gonna tell him to take his trinket and head to the house? Or, what if you show up to the "award" ceremony, but his podium is empty because coach has him running till he pukes outside the stadium?
If you don't like the whole ceremony, fine. Let the tournament directors know. Get a petition signed. Don't sign up for tourneys that have one. Or sign up for tourneys that you're sure to place poorly in so you won't have to deal with it.
But if you're saying that you'd skip said ceremony just because YOU LOST, then I'm curious: What life lesson would you be teaching the kids that you think would actually benefit them as adults?
I think even the most hardcore, tough-guy coach out there who is worth his salt would find a way to teach a much more valuable and motivating lesson by making them get their butts out there and respectfully acknowledge that the team lined up on that other foul line just BEAT them. |
| turntwo |
Posted - 03/01/2017 : 09:45:52
Other than lining up and congratulating the other team with "good (great) game" in terms of shaking hands or 'half-hugs', I don't see the problem.
I didn't see the Falcons on the field for the Patriots "award" ceremonies... I didn't see Alabama on the field for Clemson's "award" ceremonies...
Now, if you're saying the team didn't even shake hands, and acknowledge a 'good game' to the winner, now THAT is poor sportsmanship. But not lining up to get recognized as 'first loser' or making sure the winner "feels better" that my team is standing there...???? Nah. No biggie. Give me my teams box of 'trinkets' and I'll let them take one if they want, and we'll head to the house (or run, or whatever).
Sorry, my team isn't here to make your team 'feel better' after battle. |
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