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New Pitching rules for high school

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[quote][i]Originally posted by C. MORTON[/i]
[br]http://www.georgiadugoutpreview.com/morefpinfo.php?rid=272&page=index&catg&titleid

The Georgia High School Association unanimously approved a pitch count in baseball at its fall executive committee meeting Monday in Macon.

As part of a mandate by the National Federation of High Schools, the GHSA sided with the national governing body which will limit pitchers to 110 pitches in a game. The pitcher will be allowed to finish the current at-bat before being replaced.

�The National Federation went away from the innings and more to the pitches,� GHSA Executive Committee member Don Corr said. �It forced the GHSA to step out and do something right away.�

Under previous rules, there were no pitch counts and pitchers were limited to 10 innings per calendar day and a maximum of 14 innings in four consecutive calendar days.

The new changes are effective immediately.

Rest for pitchers are a key part of the pitch count rule. If a pitcher throws 86 or more pitches, the pitcher is required to rest for three days. Pitchers throwing 61 to 85 pitches will be required to have two days of rest.

Pitchers who throw 36 to 60 pitches are required to take a day of rest.

No rest would be required for pitchers throwing 35 or less pitches. However, a pitcher would have to take a day off if he throws a combined 60 pitches on consecutive days.

The rule gets more complex in the postseason where pitchers won�t be allowed to throw more than 120 pitches in a series unless weather extends the series. Any pitcher who reaches 40 pitches or more in a single state tournament game will be restricted to the same days of rest as designated during the regular season.

It will be the responsibility of the official scorer (home and visitor) to maintain pitch count records.

Violators will be subject to a $250 fine and a two-game suspension for the head coach. A second offense would net a $500 fine and a minimum suspension of four games. The coach would also have to be re-instated by the GHSA executive director.

�I like it � I don�t know how it�s going to be monitored,� Lee County coach Brandon Brock said. �I think it needs to happen, especially with these kids now playing eight to 12 months out of the year now. It�s going to impact people who aren�t as deep pitching-wise.�

But many other coaches know the ruling is going to effect smaller schools.

"Me personally, I don't have a problem with it," said Vidalia coach Brent Korn, who coached Treutlen to the Class A public school state championship last May.

"We've never overused pitchers to start with. But the thing is going to be come playoff time. You've seen it in pro baseball where relievers will sometimes come back and throw on two days' rest. Come playoff time, this is going to hurt a lot of coaches who are trying to win."

Korn noted that in Game 2 of the Class A public state semifinal series at Schley County last year, his top pitcher Tristan Cone threw around 125 pitches in a 2-1 victory which propelled Treutlen into the state championship series where they eventually swept Trion.

"Had these rules been in place last year, Tristan would have had to come out," Korn said. "A 2-1 ball game with your stud on the mound, that is tough. These rules are going to have an effect on Class A schools where you don't have the arms like you do at the bigger schools."

NOTES: A proposal was submitted to allow baseball teams to conduct tryouts during the fall. The proposal failed to pass out of the baseball committee.

Editor's Note: Some information was used from the Macon Telegraph's Ron Seibel.
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T O P I C R E V I E W
C. MORTON	Posted - 08/15/2016 : 17:11:33 http://www.georgiadugoutpreview.com/morefpinfo.php?rid=272&page=index&catg&titleid The Georgia High School Association unanimously approved a pitch count in baseball at its fall executive committee meeting Monday in Macon. As part of a mandate by the National Federation of High Schools, the GHSA sided with the national governing body which will limit pitchers to 110 pitches in a game. The pitcher will be allowed to finish the current at-bat before being replaced. �The National Federation went away from the innings and more to the pitches,� GHSA Executive Committee member Don Corr said. �It forced the GHSA to step out and do something right away.� Under previous rules, there were no pitch counts and pitchers were limited to 10 innings per calendar day and a maximum of 14 innings in four consecutive calendar days. The new changes are effective immediately. Rest for pitchers are a key part of the pitch count rule. If a pitcher throws 86 or more pitches, the pitcher is required to rest for three days. Pitchers throwing 61 to 85 pitches will be required to have two days of rest. Pitchers who throw 36 to 60 pitches are required to take a day of rest. No rest would be required for pitchers throwing 35 or less pitches. However, a pitcher would have to take a day off if he throws a combined 60 pitches on consecutive days. The rule gets more complex in the postseason where pitchers won�t be allowed to throw more than 120 pitches in a series unless weather extends the series. Any pitcher who reaches 40 pitches or more in a single state tournament game will be restricted to the same days of rest as designated during the regular season. It will be the responsibility of the official scorer (home and visitor) to maintain pitch count records. Violators will be subject to a $250 fine and a two-game suspension for the head coach. A second offense would net a $500 fine and a minimum suspension of four games. The coach would also have to be re-instated by the GHSA executive director. �I like it � I don�t know how it�s going to be monitored,� Lee County coach Brandon Brock said. �I think it needs to happen, especially with these kids now playing eight to 12 months out of the year now. It�s going to impact people who aren�t as deep pitching-wise.� But many other coaches know the ruling is going to effect smaller schools. "Me personally, I don't have a problem with it," said Vidalia coach Brent Korn, who coached Treutlen to the Class A public school state championship last May. "We've never overused pitchers to start with. But the thing is going to be come playoff time. You've seen it in pro baseball where relievers will sometimes come back and throw on two days' rest. Come playoff time, this is going to hurt a lot of coaches who are trying to win." Korn noted that in Game 2 of the Class A public state semifinal series at Schley County last year, his top pitcher Tristan Cone threw around 125 pitches in a 2-1 victory which propelled Treutlen into the state championship series where they eventually swept Trion. "Had these rules been in place last year, Tristan would have had to come out," Korn said. "A 2-1 ball game with your stud on the mound, that is tough. These rules are going to have an effect on Class A schools where you don't have the arms like you do at the bigger schools." NOTES: A proposal was submitted to allow baseball teams to conduct tryouts during the fall. The proposal failed to pass out of the baseball committee. Editor's Note: Some information was used from the Macon Telegraph's Ron Seibel.
16 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
CaCO3Girl	Posted - 08/17/2016 : 07:57:37 quote: Originally posted by sebaseball quote: Originally posted by jakesdad I wonder why they struck down the rule to allow fall tryouts for baseball? That would allow more time for uniforms, fundraising and smaller 2 on 1's. I'll give you a hint. It starts with "foot" and ends with "ball". I saw a post last year on my kids high school website that baseball tryouts were on MLK day except for basketball players which would be trying out later....perhaps there is a rule you can only be on one HS team at a time? The HS coach said he prefers if the players do cross-country or football int he fall to keep them in shape and make them better all around athletes. My kid is enjoying football.
brball	Posted - 08/16/2016 : 22:43:10 quote: Originally posted by sebaseball quote: Originally posted by dad4kids I don't think 125 is bad under the circumstances you describe. And there's certainly no studies or literature establishing 110 pitches as some kind of reliable cutoff point for pitcher safety. It's completely arbitrary. I think what this reflects though is GHSA's lack of confidence in HS coaches applying those factors for the players' best interests. So they're going to err on the side of caution in establishing a cutoff. Why? Letting kids throw close to 200 pitches or throw a 100 pitches several times over 2-3 days may be rare but it's happening. As in all things, all it takes is a few bad apples to ruin it for everyone. I am certainly no defender of the GHSA and routinely call them out on the idiotic things they do. However, in this instance, the NFHS mandated that all state associations adopt a pitch count rule for the upcoming season. The GHSA didn't do this on their own, they were forced to do so. I've already spoken to our HS head coach and he's said that the GHSA baseball committee is putting together a subcommittee made up of coaches to tweak the rule. So, it doesn't sound like it's a finished product yet. He also said that they'd be discussing the enforcement aspect as well. Lots of questions and scenerios in that regard. See 14U board... Mainly pertaining to high school freshman!
sebaseball	Posted - 08/16/2016 : 20:08:30 quote: Originally posted by dad4kids I don't think 125 is bad under the circumstances you describe. And there's certainly no studies or literature establishing 110 pitches as some kind of reliable cutoff point for pitcher safety. It's completely arbitrary. I think what this reflects though is GHSA's lack of confidence in HS coaches applying those factors for the players' best interests. So they're going to err on the side of caution in establishing a cutoff. Why? Letting kids throw close to 200 pitches or throw a 100 pitches several times over 2-3 days may be rare but it's happening. As in all things, all it takes is a few bad apples to ruin it for everyone. I am certainly no defender of the GHSA and routinely call them out on the idiotic things they do. However, in this instance, the NFHS mandated that all state associations adopt a pitch count rule for the upcoming season. The GHSA didn't do this on their own, they were forced to do so. I've already spoken to our HS head coach and he's said that the GHSA baseball committee is putting together a subcommittee made up of coaches to tweak the rule. So, it doesn't sound like it's a finished product yet. He also said that they'd be discussing the enforcement aspect as well. Lots of questions and scenerios in that regard.
sebaseball	Posted - 08/16/2016 : 20:03:24 quote: Originally posted by jakesdad I wonder why they struck down the rule to allow fall tryouts for baseball? That would allow more time for uniforms, fundraising and smaller 2 on 1's. I'll give you a hint. It starts with "foot" and ends with "ball".
jakesdad	Posted - 08/16/2016 : 18:05:30 I wonder why they struck down the rule to allow fall tryouts for baseball? That would allow more time for uniforms, fundraising and smaller 2 on 1's.
Gapper	Posted - 08/16/2016 : 17:01:23 These PitchSmart Guidelines should trickle down to all organizations (rec or travel) regardless of Major, AAA, etc. Pretty much every team is keeping track on something like GameChanger so it shouldn't be hard to verify at the end of the game just like the coaches have to sign a card based on innings after every game.
baldy87	Posted - 08/16/2016 : 15:11:33 I agree pitch limits are a good thing. For me - here's where I hope common sense prevails. I know the rule says that a pitcher can finish the current batter before being replaced at the 110 pitch count - but does that same rule apply at all of the various thresholds? What we experienced last year at Perfect Game was that we had to pull a pitcher in a 3-2 count because he had hit the threshold for having to rest a day. It's silly to have to bring a kid in to finish an at-bat, plus it just slows the game down with all of the mid-inning pitching changes. The spirit of the rule is still intact by allowing a pitcher to finish an at-bat, in my opinion. Also - I hope they MANDATE that the official scorer notify EVERYONE when a pitcher reaches, say, 5 pitches before a threshold and tells EVERYONE - "This is pitch 30, 31, 32, etc!" so that there's no disputing which pitch is #35 and #36, as an example. We had an instance where we were off a pitch with the official scorer and accidentally threw a kid one extra pitch, which meant he had to sit the next day. So, of course, we ran him back out there to throw another inning since he was burned for the next day anyway. I can see LOTS of disputes if they don't either force the official scorer to announce pitch counts or post it in some way on a scoreboard (most of which don't work anyway, so that's not going to work......:)
Crazyforbball	Posted - 08/16/2016 : 13:24:58 Dad4kids nailed it. Like everything,.the FEW with lack of knowledge, or lack of care for the players, make it difficult for everyone who has been doing it right all along. I agree wholeheartedly with pitchsmart to protect younger kids out there in the midst of their growth years. We've all seen extreme overuse of very young pitchers to win games. But it's tough to think of a 17 year old who has NOT been overused pitching the game of his life in a huge state championship game having to walk away from his win because it was going to take him 120 throws to end it for his team.
bballman	Posted - 08/16/2016 : 13:16:31 The pitch counts are not entirely "arbitrary". ASMI did a LOT of research on kids that wound up being injured and that is pretty close to the number that they came up with to be on the safe side... So, is it the right number for every kid? No. It's probably too many for some and some could probably go more. But you need to set a standard and that is a pretty good number IMO. Like I said, it's not really arbitrary, but close to the recommendation set forth by ASMI, the leading arm care research organization in the world. And if you ask me (I know no one did) these regulations will help determine the better TEAM in the playoffs, rather than which team has the best single pitcher that they can throw out there to dominate the other team two days in a row. It's a good thing all in all.
ofs13	Posted - 08/16/2016 : 11:58:20 On the topic of pitch counts... Pebble Hunting Recent History's Most Cringe-Worthy Pitch Counts http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=23584 Pitcher Abuse Points A New Way to Measure Pitcher Abuse http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=148 One section that caught my attention was this..., "When Greg Maddux led the NL in innings from 1991-93, there was a widespread assumption that Maddux, like Hershiser, was a surgery case waiting to happen. He wasn't. Maddux went on to lead the NL in innings the next two seasons, throwing 202 innings in just 25 starts in the strike-shortened 1994, and has continued to be the best pitcher in baseball. Maddux, more than anyone, has convinced the baseball community that, to put it bluntly: it's the pitches, stupid. Maddux throws fewer pitches per batter, and per inning, than anyone of his generation. We've all marveled at his 79-pitch complete games, but what is more remarkable is that he never endures a 130-pitch start. Part of that is his incredible efficiency, and part of that is the Bobby Cox/Leo Mazzone tandem that still has not received enough credit for the amazing run of health by the Braves' rotation that has allowed them to build one of baseball's most enduring dynasties."
TRB	Posted - 08/16/2016 : 11:21:48 quote: Originally posted by dad4kids I don't think 125 is bad under the circumstances you describe. And there's certainly no studies or literature establishing 110 pitches as some kind of reliable cutoff point for pitcher safety. It's completely arbitrary. I think what this reflects though is GHSA's lack of confidence in HS coaches applying those factors for the players' best interests. So they're going to err on the side of caution in establishing a cutoff. Why? Letting kids throw close to 200 pitches or throw a 100 pitches several times over 2-3 days may be rare but it's happening. As in all things, all it takes is a few bad apples to ruin it for everyone. Certainly, and I agree there needs to be a standard of some sort. My problem with it is this prevailing pitch count thought that has taken hold. You just hear people talk about it as if there is some kind of magic number that a kid can throw. If as much emphasis would be put on getting your body and arm in shape as there is in pitch counts I bet the number of arm injuries would go down. The funny thing with the "is travel ball bad for arms" argument is no one hits the real issue. Everyone that likes to dog travel baseball for "over pitching" kids, misses the point entirely IMO. When a kid is getting 1 to 2 days on the field a week and playing 3 weekends out of the month, there is not much time for conditioning the arm and body. Forget maintaining that conditioning once tournaments start. It just gets tiresome hearing parents harp on pitch counts and innings etc and basically have no clue about the root of the problem. Obviously, you have to use common sense and pitching a kid to death is ridiculous. With that said, the best remedy is to make sure kids are in shape enough to pitch. I don't mean pitch 35 pitches early in the year and progress to more pitches. I mean physically ready for it. Most arm injuries happen when a person is tired because mechanics break down putting more stress on the arm. Or, some genius 11u coach decides to teach a breaking pitch "that don't stress the arm" and then proceeds to call it 25 times every time a kid pitches.
dad4kids	Posted - 08/16/2016 : 10:47:12 I don't think 125 is bad under the circumstances you describe. And there's certainly no studies or literature establishing 110 pitches as some kind of reliable cutoff point for pitcher safety. It's completely arbitrary. I think what this reflects though is GHSA's lack of confidence in HS coaches applying those factors for the players' best interests. So they're going to err on the side of caution in establishing a cutoff. Why? Letting kids throw close to 200 pitches or throw a 100 pitches several times over 2-3 days may be rare but it's happening. As in all things, all it takes is a few bad apples to ruin it for everyone.
TRB	Posted - 08/16/2016 : 09:38:23 quote: Originally posted by CaCO3Girl No coach ever thinks they are over using a pitcher, and yet MANY are. Letting a teenager throw 125 pitches because he's your stud pitcher and you HAVE to get to the playoffs is not a good reason to do untold damage to a kids arm. Everyone will have to play by the same rules, in a way this could help. Not only does it help the pitchers but the batters will only have to face the stud pitcher for 110 pitches. The more kids that can foul off or draw the walk the shorter the stud pitcher will be in. I don't see what's bad about this. When was it determined that 125 pitches on a 16, 17 and 18 year old is bad? That's a broad brush your painting with. Is the kid in shape. How much has he pitched recently? Has he been pitched a ton all year leading up to it?
sebaseball	Posted - 08/16/2016 : 09:32:26 Yea, this is a game changer for sure. And for the better. Even at bigger schools, there is a sizeable drop off from your top guys and with the current 2 day playoff format of a double header on day 1 with the "if" game on day 2, I can see "if" games being firework shows due to having to run mediocre pitching out there. This leads me to two questions: 1) Will the playoff format change to one game a day going Thurs, Fri & Sat? I would push for that if I were coaching so that the guys I used in relief in game 1 could be available for game 3 if a required day of rest were needed. In the current 2 day format, if a guy throws 40-60 pitches in game 1, he's done for the rest of the series. 2) Will this drive more recruiting among the high schools, like we're now seeing in football, as teams try to stockpile arms? I would think it would and with the blind eye that the GHSA is appearing to turn on all the football recruiting, I don't see how it would be any different for baseball.
CaCO3Girl	Posted - 08/16/2016 : 08:31:01 No coach ever thinks they are over using a pitcher, and yet MANY are. Letting a teenager throw 125 pitches because he's your stud pitcher and you HAVE to get to the playoffs is not a good reason to do untold damage to a kids arm. Everyone will have to play by the same rules, in a way this could help. Not only does it help the pitchers but the batters will only have to face the stud pitcher for 110 pitches. The more kids that can foul off or draw the walk the shorter the stud pitcher will be in. I don't see what's bad about this.
jahannah	Posted - 08/16/2016 : 08:28:33 We lost two games to a team last year that pitched their stud pitcher (who was not exactly amazing, but all they had) 180+ pitches in 4 days. This rule is welcome and will force teams to develop more pitching and protect young arms. Likewise, managing a pitching staff will call for more work by coaches and reduce HS arm burnout before the travel season. It is good to see that there is some teeth to the punishment. I was disappointed when PG changed their pitch count punishment from forfeiture to simply removing the pitcher from the game.

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