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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| curiousmind |
Posted - 08/04/2016 : 16:14:37
I'm bored so I want to ask a question to all the posters. What's the main differences in the major academies? (ECB, 6-4-3, Nelson, Titans, Team Elite) What do they do well and where do they fail? Also what does each one do well at and what is one thing they don't do so well. All feedback is welcome. I always love a good debate. |
| 19 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Crazyforbball |
Posted - 08/09/2016 : 19:53:59
This sounds to me more like a 13 man roster with a couple of kids who may be joining the team for a few of the bigger maybe PG tournaments. I seriously doubt TWELVE year olds are going to be driving up from FL every weekend for every TC tourney. I don't think there will be 15 on the bench every weekend. I could be wrong but does anyone know for sure? |
| sebaseball |
Posted - 08/09/2016 : 14:55:52
quote:
WHY WOULD A FAMILY WANT THEIR CHILD TO BE PART OF 15 PLAYER ROSTER AT 12U? What's the point? Reminder: only 2% of HS players play D1 baseball. And further reminder: at 13U, there will be another round of turnover/cuts, and so on at 14U. These 20-something paid coaches (maybe nice guys) are not overly concerned with developing your 12U kid.
Playing @ 12U (pre-puberty) has minimal impact for the child's future. Want to talk about burnout??? Those 3 or 4 kids who will play sparingly, only in non-critical moments.
Much like overused young pitchers, it's unfortunate that parents support this model.
I hear ya. Those players riding the pine who aren't quite good enough to get on the field are not getting any better and they aren't falling in love with the game either. In order to fully develop, they need to be playing. It's going to take a pardigm shift on the part of parents to not hang their hat on being on this team or that team, but rather on the best team for their son to play.
Maybe the 5-6 games in two days model needs to be revisited so that you don't need 15 man rosters in order to have enough pitching. Have two pool games, seed everyone into 4 team flights and then go into semifinals & finals. Fewer games require less pitching which accomodates teams with 11-12 man rosters which keeps more kids playing. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 08/09/2016 : 11:07:40
quote:
Originally posted by RoamingCF
quote:
Originally posted by TaxiMom
Based on the "teams looking for players" postings.....assuming they all make....there will be 13 ECB teams at the 12U level. Yes, 13.
And from what I've heard, 12U Astros, paid coaching, roster of 15 (including 2 from Florida). Two Colts teams, paid coaches, one of them teams will have a roster of 13. Not sure about the other.
WHY WOULD A FAMILY WANT THEIR CHILD TO BE PART OF 15 PLAYER ROSTER AT 12U? What's the point? Reminder: only 2% of HS players play D1 baseball. And further reminder: at 13U, there will be another round of turnover/cuts, and so on at 14U. These 20-something paid coaches (maybe nice guys) are not overly concerned with developing your 12U kid.
Playing @ 12U (pre-puberty) has minimal impact for the child's future. Want to talk about burnout??? Those 3 or 4 kids who will play sparingly, only in non-critical moments.
Much like overused young pitchers, it's unfortunate that parents support this model.
Seriously? In the same post you blast a 12u team having 15 players and then blast the overuse of young pitchers? Why do you think they have 15 kids? Do you think the new pitching rules may have come into play?
Also, D1 baseball is not ALL there is to play. D1, and D2 both give scholarships. D3 can be a great choice if you want to go into sports management. NAIA is a great choice and also has scholarships. However, 12u is probably not the best time to plan for such an event. |
| ABC_Baseball |
Posted - 08/09/2016 : 10:33:30
I don't know about the numbers on the 12u Astros, but I know this: #1, teams go crazy for "arms." It would not surprise me if the Astros are stockpiling some arms. #2, almost "Everybody" believes that playing for the Astros is the equivalent to being on the "right path" to a college scholarship. I honestly can't blame people for that. ECB has earned that reputation and the Astros have been the best of the best. Now there is no guarantee that a 12u player on the Astros is going to be able to "keep up" and be considered Astro material year after year. Let's be honest, almost no one will turn down an opportunity to play for them. Even if it means little to no playing time for 3 or 4 kids.
Are the Astros the only team worth it in town, no. ECB published a 2014/2015 commit list and while there were a lot of Astro kids, there were plenty of kids playing on the Patriots, Yankees, etc. that got scholarships to schools that any parent would be proud of.
Here is my philosophy on travel baseball. I don't care how few kids make it to play D1 or even professional baseball. Put everything you have as a player into it. I don't think Swanson, Heyward or countless other families of really good young players ever thought it wasn't worth it b/c the odds are too great. Somebody is going to make it. There will be kids that my son plays with/against that will go on to do great things in the baseball arena. We may look back on it and think, "he wasn't that great" or "he didn't seem special." Unless you have a kid that has been there, I don't think most of us really know what guys that go far look like at 10, 12, 14. I know if you want to have a shot you have to play. You must have some talent. Working hard is a must. You need to be mentally tough and you need a little bit of good fortune. |
| RoamingCF |
Posted - 08/08/2016 : 23:32:38
quote:
Originally posted by TaxiMom
Based on the "teams looking for players" postings.....assuming they all make....there will be 13 ECB teams at the 12U level. Yes, 13.
And from what I've heard, 12U Astros, paid coaching, roster of 15 (including 2 from Florida). Two Colts teams, paid coaches, one of them teams will have a roster of 13. Not sure about the other.
WHY WOULD A FAMILY WANT THEIR CHILD TO BE PART OF 15 PLAYER ROSTER AT 12U? What's the point? Reminder: only 2% of HS players play D1 baseball. And further reminder: at 13U, there will be another round of turnover/cuts, and so on at 14U. These 20-something paid coaches (maybe nice guys) are not overly concerned with developing your 12U kid.
Playing @ 12U (pre-puberty) has minimal impact for the child's future. Want to talk about burnout??? Those 3 or 4 kids who will play sparingly, only in non-critical moments.
Much like overused young pitchers, it's unfortunate that parents support this model. |
| Critical Mass |
Posted - 08/08/2016 : 09:24:56
Nelson plays in local games more than traveling away and focus is on improving and getting into college baseball at some level. No guest players, no huge rosters just good kids who want to play, get better and win more than they lose. Kennesaw Mountain HS is home field which includes indoor hitting cages and most PG games are at the Mountain, not scattered around metro Atlanta. |
| TaxiMom |
Posted - 08/07/2016 : 14:25:59
Based on the "teams looking for players" postings.....assuming they all make....there will be 13 ECB teams at the 12U level. Yes, 13.
And from what I've heard, 12U Astros, paid coaching, roster of 15 (including 2 from Florida). Two Colts teams, paid coaches, one of them teams will have a roster of 13. Not sure about the other. |
| bballguy15 |
Posted - 08/06/2016 : 10:47:23
quote:
Originally posted by TRB
Appreciate some of you clearing that up. All the different names and who is affiliated with what confuses me. The Astros name has always been associated with the best of the best for as long as I can remember.
Ive been doing this for 15 years between playing for Guerry Baldwin and the Astros to now coaching against him. EVERY YEAR it changes and EVERY YEAR it gets more and more confusing even to the guys who have lived it and are living it.
The one thing to remember, no matter the academy or the group it as all about one thing...they all want a piece of the baseball money pie.
I had a coach of one of these organizations that never puts out a good team, but still manages to have 15 teams tell me "The is more money in bad baseball than there is in good baseball." And unfortunately he is 100% correct. |
| Crazyforbball |
Posted - 08/05/2016 : 16:16:53
Again based on those who attended the tryouts both the Astros and Colts at least 11 and up are all professionally coached, no dads. Younger than 11 not sure. |
| ballfamily1 |
Posted - 08/05/2016 : 16:12:48
All depends on the age group that your son competes at. Academy A will be great at 8 u and 10 u where Academy B is killing it at 11 and 14 u.....etc etc. They all do many things well and kind of hard to say one is the best or another isn't. 643 is normally good across the board. Chance has done a good job at building Titans the past few years as well and he is involved from top to bottom. ECB is usually the standard at the older age groups with the national pull they have. I am not as familiar with Team Elite I just know they have had some solid teams. Everyone will have their own opinion and of course everyone on here including myself would be biased! |
| TRB |
Posted - 08/05/2016 : 15:34:11
Appreciate some of you clearing that up. All the different names and who is affiliated with what confuses me. The Astros name has always been associated with the best of the best for as long as I can remember. |
| ABC_Baseball |
Posted - 08/05/2016 : 14:44:28
TRB.....I saw both 15u and 16u Astros and Colt .45's compete in the Perfect Game 2016 WWBA National Championship in July. There is going to be a 12u Astros and Colt .45's for 2016/2017. I know there was an 11u Astros this past season and a 10u Colt .45's in 2015. |
| turntwo |
Posted - 08/05/2016 : 14:16:39
quote:
Originally posted by TRB
Am I wrong in saying that the Colt .45s in the younger age groups, below 12u, has been put in place of the Astros? I know at one time there was a push to limit the Astors name being used below 12u.
This past year, there was:
8U Astros
9U Astros
11U Astros
This coming year, theres:
9U Astros + 9U Colt's Orange + 9U Colt's Navy
10U Astros + 10U Colt's Orange + 10U Colt's Navy
11U Astros + 11U Colt's Orange + 11U Colt's Navy
So.... Yeah, maybe at one time the Astros was the 'coveted' team name, not given out 'willy nilly' to dad-coached teams, and I think 11U and up Astros teams are coached by academy instructors (vs. dad's), but I could be wrong. |
| Crazyforbball |
Posted - 08/05/2016 : 14:06:04
Actually based on tryouts posted this year, and last year's teams they have added the Astros and colts to the youth program where it was missing for a number of years..there will be at the least 9U-14U Astros and there are 12 and 13U colts. The 12U colts this year made it to the final 4 at cooperstown. So pretty sure they are expanding that program, not replacing it.
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| TRB |
Posted - 08/05/2016 : 11:37:50
Am I wrong in saying that the Colt .45s in the younger age groups, below 12u, has been put in place of the Astros? I know at one time there was a push to limit the Astors name being used below 12u. |
| DecaturDad |
Posted - 08/05/2016 : 11:33:12
I think you need to look at this from two different angles. The academies and all their teams for the lower ages is one thing. if you can make the top team at one of these organizations at the high school level, that is something else. I think if your kid is good enough to make any of these top teams, he will do fine. Then it comes down to personal fit. |
| Crazyforbball |
Posted - 08/05/2016 : 10:44:54
Agree with bball guy 100%. It appears ECB has recently joined the Astros and Colts back together in the youth program. Not sure about 15 up. 643 is a consistently quality progeam at all ages. Only other comment I might add is I think you sold Nelson short. Their 18U team was ranked 27 in the country last year, and Brian Nelson has an impressive record of getting all his graduating seniors college commits for many years going. His high school coaching staff includes many current area high school coaches and he runs a small, but solid, program with many top players. |
| bballguy15 |
Posted - 08/05/2016 : 10:22:19
What separates East Cobb from everyone else other than 6-4-3 and Titans Baseball is that they have a complex that they can call their own. All other organizations have to rent fields from third partys. For instance, Team Elite rents their 13u and under fields from Centennial High School.
Yes CaCO, East Cobb does have 5 teams at every age group, but in reality they do not. Almost every single team in the lower age groups out of East Cobb now are their own entity. The East Cobb Astro's are the only one I have seen in the last 3 or 4 years that are not their own entity. East Cobb Colt .45's are their own private entity and are not really apart of the East Cobb Program. For instance, the East Cobb Pride, East Cobb Team Steel, East Cobb Black Knights, East Cobb Patriots, East Cobb Rangers, East Cobb Athletics...they are all their own entity that pays money to use the East Cobb name. They have nothing to do with East Cobb otherwise. The Colt. 45's are a little different but for this argument's sake, they are basically their own entity. Same thing applies at the older age groups. If it's not the Astro's anymore, then someone is paying ot use the name. Even Beavers' East Cobb Yankees are not truly apart of the organization, they practice out of Lassiter.
Team Elite has fallen into the same trap as East Cobb although they are doing a little better job of keeping teams apart of the organization. Any Team Elite team that has North, South, West or East is NOT a real Team Elite team, they pay for the affiliation to help with recruiting. Any Team Elite team that is named Prime, Futures, Louisville Slugger, Steel or TPX are actual Team Elite teams that Brad Bouras has FULL control over.
As for the rest, 6-4-3, Titans, Nelson, Barrett, Jackets, Team GA and GA Bombers, they are all basically the same. 6-4-3, without a doubt is top of this group as far as how good Pralgo's teams are. The #1 team at every level, usually the Cougars, are one of the best teams at that age group, but after that team they are usually average at best. Jackets (15u and up) and GA Bombers would be the next two. Very similar although the Bombers have more field space and more teams. Titans are on a downward trend as of late. From what I have seen and heard they have one good team left at the 13u level, otherwise they are struggling to get talent to come and play for them at this point. Nelson and Barrett are both decent, nothing special. Their teams almost always consist of players from there region and almost never the best players from their region. Like everyone else other than ECB and Team Elite, they struggle to get the best talent in their localized region because of ECB and Team Elite. Their teams are usually average to a bit above average.
As far as what they do well and what they don't their isn't much of a difference. If you can play for Team Elite Prime at any age group of 15u and above DO IT. If you can play for the East Cobb Astro's at any age group 15u and above, DO IT. If you can play for the East Cobb Colt .45s A team at 15u or above, DO IT. If you can play for the Jackets, Bombers, 6-4-3 A teams at 15u and above, DO IT. There is no real difference other than coaching personnel and indoor space that separates those teams. They all have good coaching, they all have college contacts and they all really love what they do.
When parents ask me what they should do with their kid I tell every single one of them the same thing. That is 100% their decision. If you are trying to decide on which #1 team you want to play on, compare and contrast each teams schedule's, distance from home, cost to play, and any specialized coaching staff they have. After that, each of those top teams are exactly the same. Astro's, TE Prime and 6-4-3 Cougars have a little more recognition because of a longer history than the rest.
Hope this helps, I know it is going to step on some peoples toes, not what it is supposed to do, just supposed to be informational. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 08/05/2016 : 08:10:38
I can't speak about Nelson, the others are just very different.
ECB and Team Elite both have 5+ teams in each age group. ECB, each team is their own entity, you practice with your team (when ECB allows you to have field time) but it's usually at whatever off site location your coach can find to practice at. Older groups have some impressive teams, but those teams could literally have 30+ players, and they are very open to guest players. You could play at ECB for years and never meet Guerry Baldwin, the owner. ECB always has at least one, usually more, team nationally ranked by PG in top 100 teams.
TE has satellite locations across GA, one team could have kids that live 50 miles apart, each kid goes to their designated practice location where similar drills are being performed by all but you will rarely practice with YOUR team. Team members can be shuffled based on the needs of TE. Usually has at least one nationally ranked team in PG top 100.
643 typically has no more than 3 teams in each age group, sometimes fewer. 12u will sometimes practice with 15u, 9u with 11u...this practice technique allows the younger kids to see the faster game and the older kids to relearn the basics. They don't appear to be a big fan of the "guest player" and their rosters tend to be under 20 even at the older ages. The owner Danny Pralgo is typically involved to some degree with every team at every age. If you play at 643 you have seen Danny. Usually has at least one nationally ranked team in PG top 100.
Titans typically has only 1 team per age group...they keep it pretty tight. Chance Beam, the owner, is somewhat involved in every age group. If you play for Titans, any age group, you have met Chance Beam. They try to put together good teams but typically fall short of the elite majors group, but they still play in all of those type tourneys. You won't see a Titans team sandbagging at a AA tourney. They play against the best even if they know they don't have a great team at the moment. On occasion they will have a nationally ranked team on PG's top 100 team list for the older age groups, but it's kind of rare. |
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