| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Punishers |
Posted - 07/16/2016 : 23:47:50
Do you guys have any things you would consider "Red Flags" at a tryout? |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Crazyforbball |
Posted - 08/04/2016 : 16:33:32
Turntwo yes this is what I meant. Now maybe the mailman's AA team doesn't get a lot of looks but the top, say, 5 or so teams that play in the same D1 tourneys...their top players get noticed. But even the AA team may have a majors player who makes a move to a "better" team the next year, then he becomes more well known, or makes the cut. BUT, they still have to make the cut EVERY year. Like all competitve sports there is always someone better waiting to take your spot. Punishers pre-puberty I agree it's ridiculous to market a team based on D1 scholarships as it's a genetics game 1st. I don't know of any reputable academy that sells youth players that way. Most likely it's the parents who like to brag, or the kids who think it's cool, to say they play at the same park that so many big leaguers did. And yes, Bama dad it IS worth giving the b or c team a try IMHO esp if they practice at the same time/play in the same tourneys. Now if you are getting down to the 8th or 9th team of 12 maybe not (mailman's team?) But near to the top, it's my opinion only that it's worth it. And heck, being in the top 3-5 of 10, 11, 12 teams isn't so bad as far as playing against good competition and therefore developing. But post puberty, I'd say you've either got it, or you don't, no matter where you play. And going D1 you are doing it to have the experience of playing D1, not for a free ride, because that doesn't exist. If you want the free ride focus on the grades. |
| Punishers |
Posted - 08/04/2016 : 15:34:40
I do have a real big problem with some promoting D-1 scholarships when there are no full ride for baseball players. Colleges are cutting baseball from their sports programs every year. That's a red flag for me at 14u and under. Want to impress me, show me someone you help get on an active MLB roster. If they can't do that, it's a pipe dream they are selling IMO. Cant really speak on the academy teams, I've always played on a private team during my time. Big names = big money. Then again, if the parents are foolish enough to pay for their kid to be on a B, C, or D academy team it's their fault. They have to remember it's a business, but it doesn't dawn on them until they see the academy owner drive off in a new Ferrari. |
| turntwo |
Posted - 08/04/2016 : 14:53:44
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
With what I highlighted here is my glitch...you are assuming the top dog team coach saw my mailman's team of 10...I sincerely doubt they played each other.
If your Mailman's team is practicing at ECB, or playing some TC tourneys out of ECB, there is a DECENT chance his team is being 'seen'.
Where do you think the top Astros come from (15U and up)? You think they pile into the 'cattle call' tryout? I'd venture to guess they are SEEN. Whether playing against certain coaches, or playing AT ECB. The academy coaches are ALWAYS looking, and keeping tabs on the 'who's who' in their age group. Even as far down as 12U. (Maybe younger). You take a kid from Mailman's team, that lights up a tourney. 6 scoreless innings from the mound, batted .800+ with several dingers and over a dozen ribs... You telling me, that age groups' top Academy team coach isn't taking notice? Or the next year's coach? Especially if that kid preforms like that on a consistent basis... |
| BamaDad |
Posted - 08/04/2016 : 14:10:52
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
Caco3 you are absolutely right. And I would say the part about being there at 9 has no bearing on 17 is absolutely true for all academies, large and small. The only slight advantage might be that some of the coaches know what you've actually got if you don't show well at a tryout, and that is only a SLIGHT advantage. At some point the kid has to make the cut. But ALL the academies are going to expect you to pay if you do make the cut. I don't know about the 18U showcase team, but for the rest, at all ages, yes. If, after years of playing at an Academy, your kid still doesn't make the cut for the team you have your eye on, and you are hanging around playing on the "d,e or f' team you are probably wasting your money. Bottom line, if your kid is a true stud/D1 prospect I would think he will be found, no matter if he's playing on the xyz team or the big academy team. As long as he's playing on a competitve team against top competition at PG or similar he will be noticed. No sense blaming the academy. Again, if you feel ripped off you probably needed to do more research on what you signed up for. There are tons of smaller, less expensive groups that field really great teams. From the perspective of people who post on here, there are plenty of studs who got recruited without ever playing on one of said academy teams. I don't have a 17 or 18 year old so I don't know but even with a younger kid it's the same and every year you have to make it. You might grow to a huge monster you might stay a little shrimp. As far as being lied to, you can only be sold what you're willing to buy. Like any business transaction it's buyer beware. There are no lemon laws for baseball. It sounds like you had a bad experience renegade, but I think there are plenty of places you can go to find (or have already hopefully found) a great option where your son can get what he's looking for.
With what I highlighted here is my glitch...you are assuming the top dog team coach saw my mailman's team of 10...I sincerely doubt they played each other.
I think he may be talking about playing in large academies, the coaches see kids in practice with the lower level teams. I have heard coaches of the 'A' team tell kids in tryouts not to get discouraged if they don't make his team. That the best way to make the 'A' team may be to play on the 'B or C' team and they get to see more of you whether it be practices or games. |
| BaseballMom6 |
Posted - 08/04/2016 : 14:06:25
This team list is based on last year. They have not updated the teams for the coming tryout season. My son is part of that 16U age group where there is a glut of teams. If you could see the prior years, you would see that the large number of teams has moved up an age group each year with this same group of boys. It will be interesting to see how many 17U teams there are this coming year.
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
There is some data to support the idea that big academies with multiple teams might just string you along in the younger ages...I hate to pick on ECB again but it has the most available data online. The facts are ECB has:
13u: 6 teams
14u: 7 teams
15u: 8 teams
16u: 11 teams (The year of, OMG my kid hasn't gotten a full scholarship offer I MUST get him to ECB now before it's too late)
17u: 5 teams (The year of, what do you mean there isn't a place at ECB for my son he's been here since 9u!)
It looks like a clear pattern to me.
|
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 08/04/2016 : 13:32:40
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
Caco3 you are absolutely right. And I would say the part about being there at 9 has no bearing on 17 is absolutely true for all academies, large and small. The only slight advantage might be that some of the coaches know what you've actually got if you don't show well at a tryout, and that is only a SLIGHT advantage. At some point the kid has to make the cut. But ALL the academies are going to expect you to pay if you do make the cut. I don't know about the 18U showcase team, but for the rest, at all ages, yes. If, after years of playing at an Academy, your kid still doesn't make the cut for the team you have your eye on, and you are hanging around playing on the "d,e or f' team you are probably wasting your money. Bottom line, if your kid is a true stud/D1 prospect I would think he will be found, no matter if he's playing on the xyz team or the big academy team. As long as he's playing on a competitve team against top competition at PG or similar he will be noticed. No sense blaming the academy. Again, if you feel ripped off you probably needed to do more research on what you signed up for. There are tons of smaller, less expensive groups that field really great teams. From the perspective of people who post on here, there are plenty of studs who got recruited without ever playing on one of said academy teams. I don't have a 17 or 18 year old so I don't know but even with a younger kid it's the same and every year you have to make it. You might grow to a huge monster you might stay a little shrimp. As far as being lied to, you can only be sold what you're willing to buy. Like any business transaction it's buyer beware. There are no lemon laws for baseball. It sounds like you had a bad experience renegade, but I think there are plenty of places you can go to find (or have already hopefully found) a great option where your son can get what he's looking for.
With what I highlighted here is my glitch...you are assuming the top dog team coach saw my mailman's team of 10...I sincerely doubt they played each other. |
| Crazyforbball |
Posted - 08/04/2016 : 12:33:53
Caco3 you are absolutely right. And I would say the part about being there at 9 has no bearing on 17 is absolutely true for all academies, large and small. The only slight advantage might be that some of the coaches know what you've actually got if you don't show well at a tryout, and that is only a SLIGHT advantage. At some point the kid has to make the cut. But ALL the academies are going to expect you to pay if you do make the cut. I don't know about the 18U showcase team, but for the rest, at all ages, yes. If, after years of playing at an Academy, your kid still doesn't make the cut for the team you have your eye on, and you are hanging around playing on the "d,e or f' team you are probably wasting your money. Bottom line, if your kid is a true stud/D1 prospect I would think he will be found, no matter if he's playing on the xyz team or the big academy team. As long as he's playing on a competitve team against top competition at PG or similar he will be noticed. No sense blaming the academy. Again, if you feel ripped off you probably needed to do more research on what you signed up for. There are tons of smaller, less expensive groups that field really great teams. From the perspective of people who post on here, there are plenty of studs who got recruited without ever playing on one of said academy teams. I don't have a 17 or 18 year old so I don't know but even with a younger kid it's the same and every year you have to make it. You might grow to a huge monster you might stay a little shrimp. As far as being lied to, you can only be sold what you're willing to buy. Like any business transaction it's buyer beware. There are no lemon laws for baseball. It sounds like you had a bad experience renegade, but I think there are plenty of places you can go to find (or have already hopefully found) a great option where your son can get what he's looking for. |
| Renegade44 |
Posted - 08/04/2016 : 11:13:27
Travel or Showcase baseball would make for a very interesting case study on socio-economics.
Everybody is an elite D1 College prospect as long as the matching elite sized checks keep the dollars flowing.
What's the old adage? "A gold mine is a hole in the ground with a liar standing next to it"
Well unfortunately a baseball academy is a vacant building with..................you get the picture. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 08/04/2016 : 10:23:25
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
ECB doesn't "create" youth teams outside of their academy teams as far as I know, at least 14 and under. All those youth teams are typically brought by coaches TO east cobb. Coach so and so, who coached the allstar youth team, brings this team to ecb and wants to play out of there as whatever.. gizmos, strikers, whatever name isn't already taken. ECB is a business and agrees to have that team come on board. They don't oversee the budget of that team, or do any decision making for them as far as tournaments, players, coaching, etc. So if anyone is stringing players along its the individual coaches not ECB.
I would agree 100% it is the individual coaches that string the players along...why...because ECB coaches pay for the name of ECB, but there is no oversight BY ECB. If my mailman showed up with 10 kids willing to pay, having never played baseball in high school or college, he will likely get a team. These teams are pretty much renting a field and I can't tell you how many parents I have heard say "my kid is IN the ECB program now, it should only be a matter of time until he moves up" and that isn't how it works there.
So okay, my biggest red flag is for under 14u don't buy into the coaches hype of "getting in the door at their program". 9u has zero bearing on 17u.
|
| aj94 |
Posted - 08/04/2016 : 10:20:03
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
quote:
Originally posted by Cajunjeep
There are several that have posted on here about bad experiences. Why not name the academy/team so everyone else can be made aware?
Also playing experience does not necessarily translate into coaching ability or experience.
Some red flags for us were:
1) a large part of the team not returning,
2) parents of the current team - watch how they interact(or not) with the coach and players.
3) No real plan at the tryout. coaches just winging it.
4) Coaches that dont want to discuss costs.
5 Coaches that talk about how much they won the previous season, and not how much better the players became.
Love your list!!!! That's 5 GREAT red flags, for sure!
And trying to 'call out' to 'inform' others of the Academy or team would never get posted. Leaves TOO much room for 'opinion'. Is a poster miffed because he THOUGHT he heard a cost figure, and it was wrong? Or was he truly lied to. No one would ever know the truth. Even with 'bait and switch', unless things are IN WRITING and MULTIPLE people can confirm it didn't happen, or wasn't followed through with, then maybe.
I personally heard of an organization (newer, Milton area), that charged $2K - $3K per player from 11U on up. Yet never ONCE provided a budget, even when requested multiple times. Crazy.
Turntwo's list is on point, I will also add:
6)Tryout will be at XXXX High School but the tryout actually takes place on the old football practice field not the baseball field that is under lock and key during the tryout.
And I think I may know of that organization, must be the one that said the 9u was $2,800 for the season. I looked them up on some tournament results they were getting smoked by 10 runs every single game. Money grab.
|
| hshuler |
Posted - 08/04/2016 : 10:19:39
quote:
Originally posted by sebaseball
quote:
Meanwhile the select few (discussed at the beginning here) and the recruited regional talent on the A team are playing at low cost (or even NO COST). All done on the profit you provided the academy all these years and continue to do so thru the B,C,D,E,F teams at these older ages.
What does the academy get out of this setup? The A team is marketing/advertising and helps pave the way to sell dreams to the lesser player or bring in new players for the lesser teams. Especially at the younger more profitable ages.
I can speak to this very fact as I personally know of three play players in our HS program that have been playing for an organization the last two years who paid $0 to play. It's one of the organizations that is selling it's name to various facilities all over the state. I'm not saying that is a bad thing or wrong; business is business. But, clearly, having their flagship team perform very well is used as a loss-leader to attract more business and expand the brand. If you "can play", there is a different financial set of rules for you. But, this isn't a new phenomena; it's been this way since competitive sports started.
Agreed and not sure if it's always a loss-leader. I think other parents end up finding the free ride for other kids. |
| sebaseball |
Posted - 08/04/2016 : 09:36:48
quote:
Meanwhile the select few (discussed at the beginning here) and the recruited regional talent on the A team are playing at low cost (or even NO COST). All done on the profit you provided the academy all these years and continue to do so thru the B,C,D,E,F teams at these older ages.
What does the academy get out of this setup? The A team is marketing/advertising and helps pave the way to sell dreams to the lesser player or bring in new players for the lesser teams. Especially at the younger more profitable ages.
I can speak to this very fact as I personally know of three play players in our HS program that have been playing for an organization the last two years who paid $0 to play. It's one of the organizations that is selling it's name to various facilities all over the state. I'm not saying that is a bad thing or wrong; business is business. But, clearly, having their flagship team perform very well is used as a loss-leader to attract more business and expand the brand. If you "can play", there is a different financial set of rules for you. But, this isn't a new phenomena; it's been this way since competitive sports started. |
| Bflanders |
Posted - 08/03/2016 : 20:21:38
quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44
<<<The kids that are on those 16 / 17 / 18 year old teams are the same kids who worked their tails off to stay in the top organizations that are NOT coached by Dad's since they were 12U. I knowthis as fact because I have witnessed it here. Another interesting thing, concerning wins, the majority those 12U to 14U top teams that have paid coaches aren't interested in wins, they are interested in putting kids under pressure to perform in clutch situations, even when it is apparent that it is going to cost you a win. I have also witnessed this. That is true development, and it is worth every penny, IMHO.>
Lets go deeper into this statement:
The kids that are on the academy topA 16 / 17 / 18 year old teams are a very few select kids who worked their tails off to stay in the top organizations since 12U, otherwise they have been shuffled to the B,C,D,E, or F academy team. Those few select kids who worked their tails off are now on what is best described as a super regional academy team joined by the best athletes and arms the academy can find or personally recruit. The money/time/effort you paid as a hard working 12 to 14u player has zero bearing at 16/17/18 top A team selection time.
The majority of those 12U to 14U top teams that have paid coaches aren't interested in wins. Exactly. Shift the focus to development. You can't win consistently when your costs LIMIT the pool of available talent. Talent wins, but costs LIMIT your roster to only those who can pay plus maybe a few select players who have such talent that their costs are reduced or otherwise offset. (Hint: go re-read the first paragraph!) You can focus on development all you want, but if your costs exceed the level the talent can or will pay, you are not going to win. To change the measurement of success, you fall back on development and dreams/promises of future wins to come after more ($$$$) development.
Meanwhile, you've been sold a dream, you quite possibly are out multiple thousands of dollars per year. Fast forward to age 16/17/18 and you are "all in" financially while playing on the C team from the academy.
Meanwhile the select few (discussed at the beginning here) and the recruited regional talent on the A team are playing at low cost (or even NO COST). All done on the profit you provided the academy all these years and continue to do so thru the B,C,D,E,F teams at these older ages.
What does the academy get out of this setup? The A team is marketing/advertising and helps pave the way to sell dreams to the lesser player or bring in new players for the lesser teams. Especially at the younger more profitable ages.
So is it the folks that have studs and the ability to pay for their advancement, or is it the academies looking for those folks that you have an issue with? Your post signals a few questions. |
| Crazyforbball |
Posted - 08/03/2016 : 19:49:52
ECB doesn't "create" youth teams outside of their academy teams as far as I know, at least 14 and under. All those youth teams are typically brought by coaches TO east cobb. Coach so and so, who coached the allstar youth team, brings this team to ecb and wants to play out of there as whatever.. gizmos, strikers, whatever name isn't already taken. ECB is a business and agrees to have that team come on board. They don't oversee the budget of that team, or do any decision making for them as far as tournaments, players, coaching, etc. So if anyone is stringing players along its the individual coaches not ECB. |
| turntwo |
Posted - 08/03/2016 : 18:00:59
quote:
Originally posted by Cajunjeep
There are several that have posted on here about bad experiences. Why not name the academy/team so everyone else can be made aware?
Also playing experience does not necessarily translate into coaching ability or experience.
Some red flags for us were:
1) a large part of the team not returning,
2) parents of the current team - watch how they interact(or not) with the coach and players.
3) No real plan at the tryout. coaches just winging it.
4) Coaches that dont want to discuss costs.
5 Coaches that talk about how much they won the previous season, and not how much better the players became.
Love your list!!!! That's 5 GREAT red flags, for sure!
And trying to 'call out' to 'inform' others of the Academy or team would never get posted. Leaves TOO much room for 'opinion'. Is a poster miffed because he THOUGHT he heard a cost figure, and it was wrong? Or was he truly lied to. No one would ever know the truth. Even with 'bait and switch', unless things are IN WRITING and MULTIPLE people can confirm it didn't happen, or wasn't followed through with, then maybe.
I personally heard of an organization (newer, Milton area), that charged $2K - $3K per player from 11U on up. Yet never ONCE provided a budget, even when requested multiple times. Crazy.
|
| Punishers |
Posted - 08/03/2016 : 17:22:47
quote:
Originally posted by 3sondad
Back to Red-flags ... Here are my biggest red flags:
ONE: If a 14U, 15U ,16U and 18U team from a Big organization tells you they have the blessings from "god" to be the second team out of the facility and their team will get special treatment on field time and indoor workouts. But the talent you see at tryouts or workouts for that team does not match what you are being told. That is NOT how that "big" organization has ever ran. One year we went to three "private" tryouts and all three said the same thing about being the number 2 team (or even the "#2 organization within the organization", because they had teams at multiple age groups).
TWO: "Coaches" that say they got "johnny, mikey, pete", etc drafted or DI scholarships (Basically implying that if it were not for ME the kid would not be playing ball where he js paying). If a coach has the gall to tell you "He got the kid drafted or a scholarship" should be a warning in itself. If you are lucky like I was and happen to know the kids they are talking about, you will realize how full of B$ these guys are. I was lucky in the fact I had an older boy play ball with a lot of the kids mentioned.
Good luck to those still looking for teams.
Wow! Just Wow! |
| TRB |
Posted - 08/03/2016 : 17:02:08
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
There is some data to support the idea that big academies with multiple teams might just string you along in the younger ages...I hate to pick on ECB again but it has the most available data online. The facts are ECB has:
13u: 6 teams
14u: 7 teams
15u: 8 teams
16u: 11 teams (The year of, OMG my kid hasn't gotten a full scholarship offer I MUST get him to ECB now before it's too late)
17u: 5 teams (The year of, what do you mean there isn't a place at ECB for my son he's been here since 9u!)
It looks like a clear pattern to me.
How are they "stringing people along"? How does your "data" prove any of that?
So let me get this straight, little Johnny wants to play baseball at 9u. Parents want him at the premier place in the country. They sign him up. They're plenty of willing coaches and players. ECB creates a team. This continues through several ages until a certain age. By 17u, finally enough kids and parents realize that the kid don't have the talent to play past high school so the numbers shrink. All of a sudden this is an academy stringing kids along? How do you figure that? |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 08/03/2016 : 15:16:00
There is some data to support the idea that big academies with multiple teams might just string you along in the younger ages...I hate to pick on ECB again but it has the most available data online. The facts are ECB has:
13u: 6 teams
14u: 7 teams
15u: 8 teams
16u: 11 teams (The year of, OMG my kid hasn't gotten a full scholarship offer I MUST get him to ECB now before it's too late)
17u: 5 teams (The year of, what do you mean there isn't a place at ECB for my son he's been here since 9u!)
It looks like a clear pattern to me.
|
| Cajunjeep |
Posted - 08/03/2016 : 14:49:38
quote:
Originally posted by BaseballMom6
Yes check multiple sources, but had I seen what was there about the program we went with, I would have asked a whole lot more questions and done a lot more research prior to giving our hard earned money to a fraudulent program.
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by BaseballMom6
Check out RIPOFF REPORT prior to committing with a team. I wish I had done that last year, would have saved myself a lot of money and my son a lot of frustration and he would have had his summer of baseball he was looking forward to.
Sometimes this will work, sometimes there are just lies posted on there to damage people/reputations. Check out this link from consumer affairs:
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/online/ripoffreport.html
There are several that have posted on here about bad experiences. Why not name the academy/team so everyone else can be made aware?
Also, not all "dad" coached teams are created equal. There are many of them that have "dads" coaching that have more playing experience and more coaching experience than some of the coaches at the academies or "pro" coached teams.
Also playing experience does not necessarily translate into coaching ability or experience.
Some red flags for us were:
1) a large part of the team not returning,
2) parents of the current team - watch how they interact(or not) with the coach and players.
3) No real plan at the tryout. coaches just winging it.
4) Coaches that dont want to discuss costs.
5 Coaches that talk about how much they won the previous season, and not how much better the players became.
|
| Renegade44 |
Posted - 08/03/2016 : 13:22:19
"johnny, mikey, pete" drafted and committed to D1, etc.
I assume All of the 14 academies/coaches/teams they subbed or guest played with from 15U to 17U claim to be the reason "johnny, mikey, pete" all got that scholarship. Bonus points for listing that player as recruited/drafted on their website front page.
Its deep out there, wade thru it carefully. |
| 3sondad |
Posted - 08/03/2016 : 11:56:48
Back to Red-flags ... Here are my biggest red flags:
ONE: If a 14U, 15U ,16U and 18U team from a Big organization tells you they have the blessings from "god" to be the second team out of the facility and their team will get special treatment on field time and indoor workouts. But the talent you see at tryouts or workouts for that team does not match what you are being told. That is NOT how that "big" organization has ever ran. One year we went to three "private" tryouts and all three said the same thing about being the number 2 team (or even the "#2 organization within the organization", because they had teams at multiple age groups).
TWO: "Coaches" that say they got "johnny, mikey, pete", etc drafted or DI scholarships (Basically implying that if it were not for ME the kid would not be playing ball where he js paying). If a coach has the gall to tell you "He got the kid drafted or a scholarship" should be a warning in itself. If you are lucky like I was and happen to know the kids they are talking about, you will realize how full of B$ these guys are. I was lucky in the fact I had an older boy play ball with a lot of the kids mentioned.
Good luck to those still looking for teams. |
| Renegade44 |
Posted - 08/03/2016 : 11:01:40
<<<The kids that are on those 16 / 17 / 18 year old teams are the same kids who worked their tails off to stay in the top organizations that are NOT coached by Dad's since they were 12U. I knowthis as fact because I have witnessed it here. Another interesting thing, concerning wins, the majority those 12U to 14U top teams that have paid coaches aren't interested in wins, they are interested in putting kids under pressure to perform in clutch situations, even when it is apparent that it is going to cost you a win. I have also witnessed this. That is true development, and it is worth every penny, IMHO.>
Lets go deeper into this statement:
The kids that are on the academy topA 16 / 17 / 18 year old teams are a very few select kids who worked their tails off to stay in the top organizations since 12U, otherwise they have been shuffled to the B,C,D,E, or F academy team. Those few select kids who worked their tails off are now on what is best described as a super regional academy team joined by the best athletes and arms the academy can find or personally recruit. The money/time/effort you paid as a hard working 12 to 14u player has zero bearing at 16/17/18 top A team selection time.
The majority of those 12U to 14U top teams that have paid coaches aren't interested in wins. Exactly. Shift the focus to development. You can't win consistently when your costs LIMIT the pool of available talent. Talent wins, but costs LIMIT your roster to only those who can pay plus maybe a few select players who have such talent that their costs are reduced or otherwise offset. (Hint: go re-read the first paragraph!) You can focus on development all you want, but if your costs exceed the level the talent can or will pay, you are not going to win. To change the measurement of success, you fall back on development and dreams/promises of future wins to come after more ($$$$) development.
Meanwhile, you've been sold a dream, you quite possibly are out multiple thousands of dollars per year. Fast forward to age 16/17/18 and you are "all in" financially while playing on the C team from the academy.
Meanwhile the select few (discussed at the beginning here) and the recruited regional talent on the A team are playing at low cost (or even NO COST). All done on the profit you provided the academy all these years and continue to do so thru the B,C,D,E,F teams at these older ages.
What does the academy get out of this setup? The A team is marketing/advertising and helps pave the way to sell dreams to the lesser player or bring in new players for the lesser teams. Especially at the younger more profitable ages. |
| hshuler |
Posted - 08/03/2016 : 10:44:10
quote:
Originally posted by lowandoutside
quote:
Originally posted by hshuler
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
I agree there are some situations being run for profit, and you are not necessarily getting what you pay for just by having a pro. That's where doing your homework comes into play. However, just for us, can't speak for others, the move to paid was a huge breath of fresh air. From practices to games, it was a whole new world. The boys all LOVE it. And at least for our coaches, they are young guys and the money they make is just enough to give them some money to offset their college expenses (as others have pointed out those D1 scholarships still leave alot of debt on the plate, and playing for the minors is anything but a financial windfall), while still getting to be involved in the sport they love. So profit doesn't really come into play. Again, it has to be the right fit, and I agree it stinks that some great players might be left out of baseball by pure virtue of not being able to pay. This is not the case with basketball or football. No doubt baseball has become a big money machine and parents need to be realistic about feeding the money machine after it becomes clear that their child's skill level is just never going to be there. But if it's within the budget and the right coach is out there it can be a great experience. Just curious, as we are not quite there yet, how many of the top 16/17/18 year old majors teams in the metro area are still coached by dads? Everyone I know in this age group that have kids likely to play college are on professionally coached teams, but I am curious if my view is skewed by simply not knowing?
It's hard for dads to coach high school age travel teams because of the weeklong summer tournaments. I know that my employer wasn't going to let me miss most of June and July.
If I could have swung it, probably would have coached my son's team through high school because I loved working with the group of boys that we had not because I wanted to create an advantage for my son. In fact, the group of dads that I coached with routinely beat the large academies and their paid coaches. Oh and last year at 13U with a couple of sponsorships, each players cost was around $600. So, it can be done by dads who have morals and are interested in doing what's right versus just trying to promote their kid.
Lastly, there are dads out there who played college and pro ball who don't coach at academies. Just saying...
Well said!! I wish there were more Dad's out there like yourself. Who have fun with it, want the boys to grow, and don't do it to create an advantage for their son. Seriously, you should travel to local parks and share your wealth of knowledge!!! And, congratulations on Josh's PG selection. Well deserved!!! We don't know you outside this board, but I thoroughly enjoyed watching your son and his team play. They do it the right way.
Thanks for the kind words! He and our entire family are extremely appreciative and honored for the invitation. |
| Crazyforbball |
Posted - 08/03/2016 : 10:43:23
Back to the original point, it's an individual choice based on what's available in your area, what works best for your child and up to you as a parent to figure out who's who and where your child will have the most success. Clearly there are good and bad out there in both dads and pros alike. But it is NOT a "red flag" if a team is charging 2K plus in older age groups with a proven track record of success. For 8-11 maybe but 12 and up, back to individual choice. There are definitely teams that justify the fee but alternative excellent choices for those who aren't interested in the academy or pro route. Does that sum it up? |
| aj94 |
Posted - 08/03/2016 : 08:41:56
quote:
Originally posted by Bflanders
quote:
Originally posted by aj94
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
I agree there are some situations being run for profit, and you are not necessarily getting what you pay for just by having a pro. That's where doing your homework comes into play. However, just for us, can't speak for others, the move to paid was a huge breath of fresh air. From practices to games, it was a whole new world. The boys all LOVE it. And at least for our coaches, they are young guys and the money they make is just enough to give them some money to offset their college expenses (as others have pointed out those D1 scholarships still leave alot of debt on the plate, and playing for the minors is anything but a financial windfall), while still getting to be involved in the sport they love. So profit doesn't really come into play. Again, it has to be the right fit, and I agree it stinks that some great players might be left out of baseball by pure virtue of not being able to pay. This is not the case with basketball or football. No doubt baseball has become a big money machine and parents need to be realistic about feeding the money machine after it becomes clear that their child's skill level is just never going to be there. But if it's within the budget and the right coach is out there it can be a great experience. Just curious, as we are not quite there yet, how many of the top 16/17/18 year old majors teams in the metro area are still coached by dads? Everyone I know in this age group that have kids likely to play college are on professionally coached teams, but I am curious if my view is skewed by simply not knowing?
This is about tryouts for younger kids, 12u and under. My point was about 9u and 10u teams charging $2,000 and up for 9 and 10 year old baseball, there is no justification for it and the high cost is not adding up to wins in 90% of the cases.
The kids that are on those 16 / 17 / 18 year old teams are the same kids who worked their tails off to stay in the top organizations that are NOT coached by Dad's since they were 12U. I knowthis as fact because I have witnessed it here. Another interesting thing, concerning wins, the majority those 12U to 14U top teams that have paid coaches aren't interested in wins, they are interested in putting kids under pressure to perform in clutch situations, even when it is apparent that it is going to cost you a win. I have also witnessed this. That is true development, and it is worth every penny, IMHO.
My older son was on a low cost "dad coached" team at 18u and they used to beat those $3,000 plus "academy" teams on the regular. And one of the players from the team was a top 10 range MLB draft pick.
No need to make false general statements to justify the money grab by making false statements.
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