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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| 743 |
Posted - 05/12/2016 : 12:20:43
Saw a post about Dominican Baseball and wanted to get Punishers thoughts on the baseball swing or how you guys teach it?
Always looking for new information and think the DR guys have some of the best swings out there.
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| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| bama21 |
Posted - 05/20/2016 : 12:29:40
Like I said, I don't like that approach either. The parents on this forum better start paying attention to what their sons are being taught because I guarantee some of the academies are teaching this. |
| Punishers |
Posted - 05/20/2016 : 10:01:34
quote:
Originally posted by bama21
Who agrees with the "swinging down" on the ball approach, theory is to create backspin? A lot of coaches teach this method, although I believe it is flawed and don't prescribe to it.
The idea around creating backspin is to hit the lower half of the ball to create a clockwise spin casting out effect. A bit too advanced from my opinion. Just focus on hitting the center of the ball, barrel below the hands, and keep from finishing with the bat below the waist. I have never been a fan of backspin technique. Makes for a lot of pop-ups. Besides, you do not want to swing down anyway. |
| Punishers |
Posted - 05/20/2016 : 09:53:15
quote:
Originally posted by sebaseball
quote:
Don't get your panties in a wad. Not too many trainers are going to expose their training methods unless they are already public domain. The master doesn't teach the students everything.
Looks like you have enough baseball intelligence to either figure it out or get close to it. Besides if I told you everything, what will you learn?
Someone told you!
Yea, El Tigre put me squarely in my place. Surprising response though because all of the actual Dominican players that I've had the opportunity to get to know on a personal and professional level were very helpful and willing to share anything they had. They're some of the best people (as a whole) that I've had the pleasure of knowing.
I just operate from the viewpoint that if you clench your fist around your knowledge, nothing will escape your grasp, but nothing new will be added either as there is no way in. Having an open hand of friendship allows information to flow both ways and can lead to accelerated learning & understanding instead of having to figure everything out on your own. Different folks have different viewpoints though.
I agree with you on Dominicans were always willing to help. I was taught this technique in high school in TX. Before my DR time. The key word here is taught, not told. Nothing wrong with sharing. I prefer actual the application approach rather than just telling someone.
If I feed you fish, you only eat for now. If I teach you to fish, you eat for life.
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| ballsandbats |
Posted - 05/20/2016 : 09:06:13
quote:
Originally posted by sebaseball
quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
sebaseball you or anyone else have any good drills for a kid that is out front, his weight too far forward when his front heel lands? I think it might be his stride is too short but not sure? Thanks Caine
I like to slow everything down and break the process into chunks. My immediate thing to do would be to have him do the "Stride Drill" where he strides & holds that position with you right across from him. While holding that position, you correct his weight distribution toward 50/50 & correct his hands and bat angle so that they're in the proper "launch" position. Let him feel it for a second or two and then go back and do it again. Keep doing that over and over until he's getting to 50/50 & the proper launch position on his own.
Once that's in place, I'd make sure that he understands where the correct contact point is for a pitch down the middle. Later on, you can work on the contact point for pitches that are inside & away. Doing tee work is the best way to accomplish this. I would have him do his stride drill, hold the position to make sure he's 50/50 & then "slow-motion" his swing & stop at the point of contact. By going in slow motion, you get to see if he is sequencing correctly, if his hand path is correct & what position he's in at the point of contact. Anything that is out of whack, you can change along the way and redo the drill until they have it all smoothed out. From there, he starts speeding up his swing off the tee until he gets to his normal swing speed.
There are some more advanced drills, but I'd start with establishing the stride & contact point first.
I like this. And also incorporating video once he starts speeding up. Then you can slow down the video and show him whether he's doing it correctly. A lot of times kids will think they are doing what you are teaching, and full speed you may think they are, but then the slo-mo video tells a different story. Coaches' Eye is a great app for this. But really, the standard video or slo-mo video function on the iPhone is good enough. |
| sebaseball |
Posted - 05/20/2016 : 08:56:04
quote:
Originally posted by bama21
Who agrees with the "swinging down" on the ball approach, theory is to create backspin? A lot of coaches teach this method, although I believe it is flawed and don't prescribe to it.
I was taught this approach in HS during the late 80's. Went from being a good, solid hitter to the "DHed for" guy at the end of my senior year. Thankfully, I got with an older gentleman who taught "old school" (what we now call rotational) hitting the summer before heading off to college and I got back on track. A little time spent on Youtube will net a mountain of of video evidence proving that the "swing down" approach is erroneous. |
| sebaseball |
Posted - 05/20/2016 : 08:42:01
quote:
Don't get your panties in a wad. Not too many trainers are going to expose their training methods unless they are already public domain. The master doesn't teach the students everything.
Looks like you have enough baseball intelligence to either figure it out or get close to it. Besides if I told you everything, what will you learn?
Someone told you!
Yea, El Tigre put me squarely in my place. Surprising response though because all of the actual Dominican players that I've had the opportunity to get to know on a personal and professional level were very helpful and willing to share anything they had. They're some of the best people (as a whole) that I've had the pleasure of knowing.
I just operate from the viewpoint that if you clench your fist around your knowledge, nothing will escape your grasp, but nothing new will be added either as there is no way in. Having an open hand of friendship allows information to flow both ways and can lead to accelerated learning & understanding instead of having to figure everything out on your own. Different folks have different viewpoints though. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 05/20/2016 : 07:55:04
quote:
Originally posted by bama21
Who agrees with the "swinging down" on the ball approach, theory is to create backspin? A lot of coaches teach this method, although I believe it is flawed and don't prescribe to it.
That is a major problem in youth baseball, many coaches are teaching this new thing and that new thing and very few are focusing on doing the fundamentals (like squaring up the ball)until it is second nature. Kids aren't great at the basics and then they teach some fancy crud and the kid is a jumble of 5 techniques, which is not effective. |
| sebaseball |
Posted - 05/20/2016 : 07:07:31
quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
Thanks, sebaseball, I have actually begun having him do exactly what you are saying. After a while of that we have been pausing in that position then swinging from there.
What do you think about a 6 to 8 pound medicine ball, striding stopping then rotating and throwing the ball? I am trying to get him to feel exactly how it should feel.
Thanks
I'm assuming you're talking about a two hand throw from the launch position. If so, yea, that's a good drill to both feel the rotation and build strength in the core by throwing the medicine ball. You're just incorporating a regular rotational medicine ball exercise into the stride drill.
Something else you can do along these lines that's baseball related is "Long Tee" hitting sessions. This is hitting off of a tee in a normal manner, but you're at homeplate of a field or somewhere that the ball can travel long distances. The goal is to hit linedrives that clear the infield dirt & land in the OF. This lets hitters see and feel how they create power to drive the ball; not just make contact. You can do this in a cage too, just need at least a 50' cage & the goal is to hit linedrives into the upper 1/3 of the net. I've found this to be a great drill for guys to figure out on their own how to get on plane and extend through the ball so that they get carry. If you roll over it or cut your swing off right at contact, you'll immediately see it. |
| Hurricane |
Posted - 05/19/2016 : 12:43:06
Thanks, sebaseball, I have actually begun having him do exactly what you are saying. After a while of that we have been pausing in that position then swinging from there.
What do you think about a 6 to 8 pound medicine ball, striding stopping then rotating and throwing the ball? I am trying to get him to feel exactly how it should feel.
Thanks |
| ballsandbats |
Posted - 05/19/2016 : 12:25:47
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by sebaseball
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by bfriendly
We talking hitting in general, or two strike approach
With two strikes, the only thing I have taught my son is to go oppo with the fast ball so he can stay back on a change up.......with a pitcher throwing a bunch of change ups, then we may try to go oppo the entire AB. Always trying to hit a dinger though, wether its to the oppo field or not.
I would like some elaboration on this "Flag Drill" Mr Punisher..........please. It may be just what the OP was asking for in the first place
Can't expose all my training methods here.
It was something that I learned from my high school coach when I had problems with my bat staying in the hitting zone enough. Have no idea where he got it from, but he did play in the MLB. Helps with those who have more fast-twitch muscles and too quick for their own good. I went from fowl tips to hitting singles and doubles.
I'm sorry, but that is the most absolute lame excuse I've ever heard. Like you're going to give away the hitting secret that's gonna make you millions. Give me a freakin' break. Sounds like to me you have them swing a small flag or attach a flag to the barrel of the bat so that they can both hear and see the flag waving as they get on plane and extend through the hitting zone before releasing into the follow through. Basically a way to help them see/feel/understand how to be short to and long through.
Don't get your panties in a wad. Not too many trainers are going to expose their training methods unless they are already public domain. The master doesn't teach the students everything.
Looks like you have enough baseball intelligence to either figure it out or get close to it. Besides if I told you everything, what will you learn?
Someone told you! |
| Marlin |
Posted - 05/19/2016 : 12:23:17
A full mind is an empty bat.
Quit all the thinking and just get in there and put the ball in play. Learn situational hitting after you learn how to just hit. |
| bama21 |
Posted - 05/19/2016 : 12:22:27
Who agrees with the "swinging down" on the ball approach, theory is to create backspin? A lot of coaches teach this method, although I believe it is flawed and don't prescribe to it. |
| sebaseball |
Posted - 05/19/2016 : 09:24:45
quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
sebaseball you or anyone else have any good drills for a kid that is out front, his weight too far forward when his front heel lands? I think it might be his stride is too short but not sure? Thanks Caine
I like to slow everything down and break the process into chunks. My immediate thing to do would be to have him do the "Stride Drill" where he strides & holds that position with you right across from him. While holding that position, you correct his weight distribution toward 50/50 & correct his hands and bat angle so that they're in the proper "launch" position. Let him feel it for a second or two and then go back and do it again. Keep doing that over and over until he's getting to 50/50 & the proper launch position on his own.
Once that's in place, I'd make sure that he understands where the correct contact point is for a pitch down the middle. Later on, you can work on the contact point for pitches that are inside & away. Doing tee work is the best way to accomplish this. I would have him do his stride drill, hold the position to make sure he's 50/50 & then "slow-motion" his swing & stop at the point of contact. By going in slow motion, you get to see if he is sequencing correctly, if his hand path is correct & what position he's in at the point of contact. Anything that is out of whack, you can change along the way and redo the drill until they have it all smoothed out. From there, he starts speeding up his swing off the tee until he gets to his normal swing speed.
There are some more advanced drills, but I'd start with establishing the stride & contact point first. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 05/18/2016 : 15:12:37
quote:
Originally posted by ABC_Baseball
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
A short compact swing has less moving parts and it will result in better contact and a better average. For those that don't understand why here is an example. 12u, I saw a boy start with his left foot back, almost like a sprinter start, bat jacked up high in the air, way beyond loading, twirling the bat in a circle. After around 60 mph he couldn't hit anything....why....because by the time he got his foot back in line with his other foot to give him a decent power base, body tilted back so he could shift his power, stopped the motion of twirling the bat, brought his hands down to where he actually needed to swing...yeah that ball was already in the catchers glove.
Less moving parts is what gets it done, it may not LOOK fancy, but you aren't there to look cool, you are there to get a hit.
I may journey off topic a little here.
I get the importance with of the big power swing. The cleanup hitter is a big thing and you want / need players that are going to clear the bases. A long/big swing tends to be more of a power swing.
When looking at the majors I see so much emphasis put on one type of player. They want the player that can crush the baseball and they are excited about the long ball. Nobody seems to care about strike outs. Not too many seem to get excited about the guy with the high average, high on-base % and low number of strike outs. After all, if you can't get guys on base, you can't outscore the other team.
I fought that battle last year looking for a team for my son and I'm sure I may have to do it again in the future. You take a big kid who crushes the ball in a tryout, everybody wants him. A kid slightly above average that lines it to the gap consistently doesn't really stand out or excite people that much. Part of it may be that you don't really see his true value until you look at a larger body of work.
I told my kid while we were doing some tee work the other day, "Don't every get it in your head that you have to change as a hitter." I don't know how long he will play this game, but he has a "leadoff" mentality and leadoff type skill. He takes his walks, he makes pitchers work, he runs well, and he will do almost anything to get on base. I've seen too many kids want to kill a pitcher throwing the slow meatball or put one over the fence on a short field so badly that they end up doing more harm than good. Patience and staying within yourself is as big of a factor as anything with hitting.
ABC, tell your kid to hang in there. The HR hitter is pretty to watch, but if he's on the small field he is likely to become the pop-fly out king here shortly. Slow and steady really can win this race. |
| Punishers |
Posted - 05/18/2016 : 12:52:18
quote:
Originally posted by ABC_Baseball
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
A short compact swing has less moving parts and it will result in better contact and a better average. For those that don't understand why here is an example. 12u, I saw a boy start with his left foot back, almost like a sprinter start, bat jacked up high in the air, way beyond loading, twirling the bat in a circle. After around 60 mph he couldn't hit anything....why....because by the time he got his foot back in line with his other foot to give him a decent power base, body tilted back so he could shift his power, stopped the motion of twirling the bat, brought his hands down to where he actually needed to swing...yeah that ball was already in the catchers glove.
Less moving parts is what gets it done, it may not LOOK fancy, but you aren't there to look cool, you are there to get a hit.
I may journey off topic a little here.
I get the importance with of the big power swing. The cleanup hitter is a big thing and you want / need players that are going to clear the bases. A long/big swing tends to be more of a power swing.
When looking at the majors I see so much emphasis put on one type of player. They want the player that can crush the baseball and they are excited about the long ball. Nobody seems to care about strike outs. Not too many seem to get excited about the guy with the high average, high on-base % and low number of strike outs. After all, if you can't get guys on base, you can't outscore the other team.
I fought that battle last year looking for a team for my son and I'm sure I may have to do it again in the future. You take a big kid who crushes the ball in a tryout, everybody wants him. A kid slightly above average that lines it to the gap consistently doesn't really stand out or excite people that much. Part of it may be that you don't really see his true value until you look at a larger body of work.
I told my kid while we were doing some tee work the other day, "Don't every get it in your head that you have to change as a hitter." I don't know how long he will play this game, but he has a "leadoff" mentality and leadoff type skill. He takes his walks, he makes pitchers work, he runs well, and he will do almost anything to get on base. I've seen too many kids want to kill a pitcher throwing the slow meatball or put one over the fence on a short field so badly that they end up doing more harm than good. Patience and staying within yourself is as big of a factor as anything with hitting.
I would take a line drive hitter over a crusher any day. HR hitters strike out too much and hit a lot of pop-ups which make for easy outs. Contact hitters that can find gaps are my choice in hitters. HR's are just too glorified these days.
Don't worry, have your kid keep up the good work and you keep working with him. Others will see that the crusher will strike out more than anyone on the team. His size doesn't matter. Pitchers can easily adapt to his type.
Count:
1. Inside fastball - up
2. Inside fastball - waist
3. Outside change up - down
Maybe throw in a junk pitch to see if he swings.
Easy Out. Can't do that to a contact hitter.
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| Hurricane |
Posted - 05/18/2016 : 12:33:15
sebaseball you or anyone else have any good drills for a kid that is out front, his weight too far forward when his front heel lands? I think it might be his stride is too short but not sure? Thanks Caine
|
| 743 |
Posted - 05/18/2016 : 12:19:53
This... I get!!!!!!! and agree with 100% very true...
the hitters head and torso being in the center of his stance once his stride foot lands and his hands are in the "launch" position. You want to be pretty close to having your weight 50/50 once you take your stride and are ready to hit. The visual I give my hitters is that of a pyramid. Their feet are the base and their head is the pointy top; everything needs to be centered up and on balance.
If you reach with your stride foot & keep too much weight on your back leg at front foot strike, you're typically going to collapse on your back leg and not generate much power. If your weight is around 50/50, you are in a position to drive off your back foot & transfer your weight to hit against a firm front leg. This doesn't mean that you become a front foot hitter & end up with your weight over your front leg though.
I agree with ABC too you have to know what kind of hitter you are, too many times coaches do look at big giants first. With the BBCOR bats now you don't see this as much at the 14 and up though. These crazy drop 5's and drop 8'sand 10's.are ridiculous. I have seen 12 year olds with these bats, hit balls further than HS kids with BBCOR. |
| Renegade44 |
Posted - 05/18/2016 : 10:55:15
See fastball, hit fastball, ball go far.
Best way to hit curveball. Don't miss fastball. |
| hshuler |
Posted - 05/18/2016 : 10:19:11
I teach a very simple hitting philosophy - 1)look for a mistake and don't miss it! 2) don't swing at a pitcher's pitch until you get two strikes.
Obviously, understanding situational hitting and learning the value of having productive outs at times are very important too. |
| ABC_Baseball |
Posted - 05/18/2016 : 09:48:30
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
A short compact swing has less moving parts and it will result in better contact and a better average. For those that don't understand why here is an example. 12u, I saw a boy start with his left foot back, almost like a sprinter start, bat jacked up high in the air, way beyond loading, twirling the bat in a circle. After around 60 mph he couldn't hit anything....why....because by the time he got his foot back in line with his other foot to give him a decent power base, body tilted back so he could shift his power, stopped the motion of twirling the bat, brought his hands down to where he actually needed to swing...yeah that ball was already in the catchers glove.
Less moving parts is what gets it done, it may not LOOK fancy, but you aren't there to look cool, you are there to get a hit.
I may journey off topic a little here.
I get the importance with of the big power swing. The cleanup hitter is a big thing and you want / need players that are going to clear the bases. A long/big swing tends to be more of a power swing.
When looking at the majors I see so much emphasis put on one type of player. They want the player that can crush the baseball and they are excited about the long ball. Nobody seems to care about strike outs. Not too many seem to get excited about the guy with the high average, high on-base % and low number of strike outs. After all, if you can't get guys on base, you can't outscore the other team.
I fought that battle last year looking for a team for my son and I'm sure I may have to do it again in the future. You take a big kid who crushes the ball in a tryout, everybody wants him. A kid slightly above average that lines it to the gap consistently doesn't really stand out or excite people that much. Part of it may be that you don't really see his true value until you look at a larger body of work.
I told my kid while we were doing some tee work the other day, "Don't every get it in your head that you have to change as a hitter." I don't know how long he will play this game, but he has a "leadoff" mentality and leadoff type skill. He takes his walks, he makes pitchers work, he runs well, and he will do almost anything to get on base. I've seen too many kids want to kill a pitcher throwing the slow meatball or put one over the fence on a short field so badly that they end up doing more harm than good. Patience and staying within yourself is as big of a factor as anything with hitting. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 05/18/2016 : 08:09:39
quote:
Originally posted by ABC_Baseball
Well, I will add something that nobody has talked about. Funny how one of the guys at our academy asked my son's team and parents what was the most important component of hitting. His answer and I happen to agree is "pitch selection." The one thing that frustrates me the most is when I see kids "waste" strikes. If you don't know the strike zone and can't lay off the pitch in your eyes, good luck.
I like hitters that make pitchers work and don't chase bad pitches. Sure breaking balls and changes-ups may throw you off, but lets not help the pitcher do his job.
With regards to just hitting the ball, line it up and put it in play. I don't need you to try and kill it. I don't need to see a stance change with two strikes. I don't really care if you go opposite field or pull the ball, just put it in play and get on. I do think having a short and compact swing will lead to a higher level of good contact and a better average.
What I underlined and bolded is only true on two strikes. Before that you had better have a plan. Where are your runners, where is the outfield hole, has third base not stopped a ball all day long, is the outfield loosing the ball in the sun? The batter should have a plan for every at bat, and not swing at the junk the pitcher is throwing until he has two strikes and has to swing at the junk pitches.
A short compact swing has less moving parts and it will result in better contact and a better average. For those that don't understand why here is an example. 12u, I saw a boy start with his left foot back, almost like a sprinter start, bat jacked up high in the air, way beyond loading, twirling the bat in a circle. After around 60 mph he couldn't hit anything....why....because by the time he got his foot back in line with his other foot to give him a decent power base, body tilted back so he could shift his power, stopped the motion of twirling the bat, brought his hands down to where he actually needed to swing...yeah that ball was already in the catchers glove.
Less moving parts is what gets it done, it may not LOOK fancy, but you aren't there to look cool, you are there to get a hit. |
| sebaseball |
Posted - 05/17/2016 : 18:47:15
quote:
Originally posted by 743
I can agree with everything that was said, although can you give me an examples of a major leaguers when you talked about "Generally someone with a low COG (center of Gravity) will produce less rotational torque than someone with a higher COG."
Would Albert Pujols be considered someone with a low COG? and Griffey Jr High COG?
Just learning here and what causes the low vs high COG, genetics or stance and stride or something I am not thinking about? Seems to me 90% of MLB hitters get lower as they stride, head moves down and forward.
I believe he's talking about the hitters head and torso being in the center of his stance once his stride foot lands and his hands are in the "launch" position. You want to be pretty close to having your weight 50/50 once you take your stride and are ready to hit. The visual I give my hitters is that of a pyramid. Their feet are the base and their head is the pointy top; everything needs to be centered up and on balance.
If you reach with your stride foot & keep too much weight on your back leg at front foot strike, you're typically going to collapse on your back leg and not generate much power. If your weight is around 50/50, you are in a position to drive off your back foot & transfer your weight to hit against a firm front leg. This doesn't mean that you become a front foot hitter & end up with your weight over your front leg though. |
| 743 |
Posted - 05/17/2016 : 15:31:53
I can agree with everything that was said, although can you give me an examples of a major leaguers when you talked about "Generally someone with a low COG (center of Gravity) will produce less rotational torque than someone with a higher COG."
Would Albert Pujols be considered someone with a low COG? and Griffey Jr High COG?
Just learning here and what causes the low vs high COG, genetics or stance and stride or something I am not thinking about? Seems to me 90% of MLB hitters get lower as they stride, head moves down and forward.
|
| ABC_Baseball |
Posted - 05/17/2016 : 14:23:40
Well, I will add something that nobody has talked about. Funny how one of the guys at our academy asked my son's team and parents what was the most important component of hitting. His answer and I happen to agree is "pitch selection." The one thing that frustrates me the most is when I see kids "waste" strikes. If you don't know the strike zone and can't lay off the pitch in your eyes, good luck.
I like hitters that make pitchers work and don't chase bad pitches. Sure breaking balls and changes-ups may throw you off, but lets not help the pitcher do his job.
With regards to just hitting the ball, line it up and put it in play. I don't need you to try and kill it. I don't need to see a stance change with two strikes. I don't really care if you go opposite field or pull the ball, just put it in play and get on. I do think having a short and compact swing will lead to a higher level of good contact and a better average. |
| Punishers |
Posted - 05/17/2016 : 12:06:10
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
Each kids body moves in its own way, each swing is different based on what will give the kid more power, and the movement changes as they grow. The one universal truth is the less moving parts the better. If a kid has to go through a series of ten small movements to get his power swing he's not going to be able to keep up when the game is faster.
Agreed. Sounds like a mom that has been around the game for a while. One small change in mechanics can make or break a hitter. I prefer to see more hip shoulder separation to produce power. Generally someone with a low COG (center of Gravity) will produce less rotational torque than someone with a higher COG.
Take a close look at most good hitters. Watch their waist closely. Their hips move before their hands. Not at the same time. Don't get distracted by the leg kicks. |
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