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6-4-3 DP Academy vs ECB

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[quote][i]Originally posted by stinger[/i]
[br]Has ECB lost it's luster?  Is there a new kid on the block ready to topple the giant?

For those of you above the now 11u level, you're probably thinking I'm crazy.  For those of you new to travel ball, you're still trying to figure out what ECB exactly is.  Well let me share my perspective on the shift that is coming.

There is no doubt that ECB is the king of the mountain in travel ball.  Not only in Georgia, but throughout the southeast and across much of the nation, people in the travel baseball world know East Cobb Baseball.  You don't have to look any further than yesterday's AJC to read about ECB's dominance in travel ball.  Parents have shelled out a lot of money to get their kids attached to the ECB brand and have proudly displayed their ECB caps, shirts and car magnets around ballparks across Georgia.  In return, those kids have gotten to play at some of the best ballfields in America, supremely manicured and expertly designed.  At the older levels, they get to play for some great coaches to help them enhance their skills and they hope that this brand will help their kids get a scholarship, or even better, get drafted.

In 2008, a little team called the 6-4-3 DP Cougars showed up at the 9u level and started winning a bunch of ball games.  Wearing their funny flat-billed caps and covered in dirt, a group of over-reaching kids starting beating some of the best in Georgia.  Sure, 6-4-3 also fielded teams at other age groups but they didn't have the same success as this 9u "little-team-that-could".  Word starting spreading that the next Tommy Lasorda had left ECB and started his own Academy and Danny Pralgo's name became synonymous with Travel Baseball for 9u in Atlanta overnight.  By the time the 2008 season was over, 6-4-3 had equaled itself with the ECB brand at this age group.  In one year, 6-4-3 accomplished at this level what ECB had taken 20 years to build.

Then try-outs came for the 2009 season.  While most of the travel teams in Atlanta were lucky to have 15 players show up, 6-4-3 had 40+ and they paid $75 each for the opportunity to try-out for Coach Pralgo.  Danny's breakout idea was a hit and 6-4-3 picked off some of the best from other teams for his 10u team.  Could they be the next Bandits?  Well, not quite, but close.  At Cooperstown, they beat the one team the Bandits couldn't the San Diego Stars, and made it to the finals only to fall to the, guess who, the Bandits . . .  again.

At the same time, ECB's brand was becoming a watered down version of it's previous self.  While 6-4-3 was keeping one well-coached team at each age group, ECB was adding a bunch of teams under 13u and letting them use their name.  The pool got diluted and suddenly teams weren't scared to play teams with the ECB logo anymore.
At 11u, it is no longer important to have the ECB sticker on your car.  Perhaps the most interesting comment can be found by last season's ECB Scorpions.   If you look on USSSA, you'll notice that it's just "Scorpion Baseball".  That's an intriguing change if it sticks.

Tonight it will all become clear. 6-4-3 DP Academy has it's tryouts at All Tournament Players Park for 11u.  Tonight, the Academy will raise a lot of money as I expect you'll see 60+ players pay their fee to try to make one of Danny's 11u teams for 2010.  Tonight, the 11u ECB teams will likely be looking on with envy as Coach Pralgo will take his ascension to top of the 11u mountain and gets the pick of the litter.  And not only will Danny pick 12 from the very best, he also will pick another 12 for his 2nd team . . .  the Jaguars.

Will the Jaguars be a "B" team?  I'm sure it will be said that the two teams will be equals but that's asking parents to take a big leap of faith.  6-4-3 DP Academy, at the end-of-the-day, is a business, owned and operated by Coach Pralgo.  While there is certainly nothing wrong with it, Danny's mortgage is paid by the parents who follow him and he needs a flagship team to market his services.  6-4-3 needs a showcase that can help them recruit players to his Academy at 10u, and 9u, and so on.  He needs the best players on a single team to finally beat the Bandits.  And he needs to beat the Bandits, so he can become . . . the next ECB.

It will be interesting to see what happens next with 6-4-3.  Will kids that don't make the Cougars accept a bid from the Jaguars or look somewhere else?  Will Danny spend as much time with the Jaguars as he does his head-lining team or will they only get a passing glance?  Don't get me wrong, Danny is a great but there are only so many hours in a day to coach  One thing is for sure, 6-4-3 has jumped over ECB at 11u and perhaps at the younger ages as well.  The torch had officially been passed.
[/quote]

T O P I C R E V I E W
stinger	Posted - 07/20/2009 : 09:07:33 Has ECB lost it's luster? Is there a new kid on the block ready to topple the giant? For those of you above the now 11u level, you're probably thinking I'm crazy. For those of you new to travel ball, you're still trying to figure out what ECB exactly is. Well let me share my perspective on the shift that is coming. There is no doubt that ECB is the king of the mountain in travel ball. Not only in Georgia, but throughout the southeast and across much of the nation, people in the travel baseball world know East Cobb Baseball. You don't have to look any further than yesterday's AJC to read about ECB's dominance in travel ball. Parents have shelled out a lot of money to get their kids attached to the ECB brand and have proudly displayed their ECB caps, shirts and car magnets around ballparks across Georgia. In return, those kids have gotten to play at some of the best ballfields in America, supremely manicured and expertly designed. At the older levels, they get to play for some great coaches to help them enhance their skills and they hope that this brand will help their kids get a scholarship, or even better, get drafted. In 2008, a little team called the 6-4-3 DP Cougars showed up at the 9u level and started winning a bunch of ball games. Wearing their funny flat-billed caps and covered in dirt, a group of over-reaching kids starting beating some of the best in Georgia. Sure, 6-4-3 also fielded teams at other age groups but they didn't have the same success as this 9u "little-team-that-could". Word starting spreading that the next Tommy Lasorda had left ECB and started his own Academy and Danny Pralgo's name became synonymous with Travel Baseball for 9u in Atlanta overnight. By the time the 2008 season was over, 6-4-3 had equaled itself with the ECB brand at this age group. In one year, 6-4-3 accomplished at this level what ECB had taken 20 years to build. Then try-outs came for the 2009 season. While most of the travel teams in Atlanta were lucky to have 15 players show up, 6-4-3 had 40+ and they paid $75 each for the opportunity to try-out for Coach Pralgo. Danny's breakout idea was a hit and 6-4-3 picked off some of the best from other teams for his 10u team. Could they be the next Bandits? Well, not quite, but close. At Cooperstown, they beat the one team the Bandits couldn't the San Diego Stars, and made it to the finals only to fall to the, guess who, the Bandits . . . again. At the same time, ECB's brand was becoming a watered down version of it's previous self. While 6-4-3 was keeping one well-coached team at each age group, ECB was adding a bunch of teams under 13u and letting them use their name. The pool got diluted and suddenly teams weren't scared to play teams with the ECB logo anymore. At 11u, it is no longer important to have the ECB sticker on your car. Perhaps the most interesting comment can be found by last season's ECB Scorpions. If you look on USSSA, you'll notice that it's just "Scorpion Baseball". That's an intriguing change if it sticks. Tonight it will all become clear. 6-4-3 DP Academy has it's tryouts at All Tournament Players Park for 11u. Tonight, the Academy will raise a lot of money as I expect you'll see 60+ players pay their fee to try to make one of Danny's 11u teams for 2010. Tonight, the 11u ECB teams will likely be looking on with envy as Coach Pralgo will take his ascension to top of the 11u mountain and gets the pick of the litter. And not only will Danny pick 12 from the very best, he also will pick another 12 for his 2nd team . . . the Jaguars. Will the Jaguars be a "B" team? I'm sure it will be said that the two teams will be equals but that's asking parents to take a big leap of faith. 6-4-3 DP Academy, at the end-of-the-day, is a business, owned and operated by Coach Pralgo. While there is certainly nothing wrong with it, Danny's mortgage is paid by the parents who follow him and he needs a flagship team to market his services. 6-4-3 needs a showcase that can help them recruit players to his Academy at 10u, and 9u, and so on. He needs the best players on a single team to finally beat the Bandits. And he needs to beat the Bandits, so he can become . . . the next ECB. It will be interesting to see what happens next with 6-4-3. Will kids that don't make the Cougars accept a bid from the Jaguars or look somewhere else? Will Danny spend as much time with the Jaguars as he does his head-lining team or will they only get a passing glance? Don't get me wrong, Danny is a great but there are only so many hours in a day to coach One thing is for sure, 6-4-3 has jumped over ECB at 11u and perhaps at the younger ages as well. The torch had officially been passed.
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
peashooter	Posted - 02/15/2012 : 19:27:12 ex: yup exactly. Plus when the parents can hear you talk, they will also hear you tell Johnny xyz on why he won't get more time at 2b because he doesn't backup throws, or didn't hustle to first base on a popup, or won't pitch as much because he lobs the ball in stressful situations. I can hear the other meetings and post game now. Parent: "Stevie, what did coach say?" Stevie: "Nothing much, we need to hustle more." When the coach said plenty. These are kids, hell even 18U kids would struggle to listen and apply what the coach is saying. My favorite thing is telling the kids something we have to work on then asking specific kids right at the end of the meeting.
excoach12	Posted - 02/15/2012 : 15:43:22 I agree with Pea. My son has been on numerous teams through rec and travel and we always had our meetings in the outfield away from the parents. When I started being the head guy I invited the parents to the post game meeting to hear what I was saying to their kids. The kids will tell them anyways so I preferred they heard it straight from me. I have nothing to hide. I am not ashamed of what I have to say. And the parents love it. You should have seen the look on their faces when I waived them out to the meeting and asked them to attend the post game meetings so they can reinforce at home what I was about to say. Did anyone have an issue once or twice? Yup. Do they have the opportunity to leave if they do not like how I run the team? Yup. Have they left? Nope. Guess it works.
M. Bare	Posted - 02/15/2012 : 13:02:59 Pea, agree with you on most of your posts but your statement about coaches being "weak" if they have a team meeting after a game without including the parents is just ridiculous! Part of what you preach is teaching these kids life lessons through baseball so what do you think those meetings are? They are about being a part of a team who just did battle on the field, they are about building trust between a coach and his players. Parents have no business being involved in those, it's getting everyone prepared for how HS and college teams operate. This isn't rec ball anymore.
peashooter	Posted - 02/14/2012 : 13:37:57 I have a suggestion. Scout the coaches out. Hang around tournaments and listen to the post game speaches. You may have to walk to the outfield grass (I think that is weak of the coaches who do that. I have no problem addressing the kids in front of the parents). Listen to what the coach says. Is it stuff like "we have to hit better, make less errors, bla bla bla" or do they frame the game in the context of life...lost opportunities, you only get one chance some times, overcoming fear, pointing out the fear based plays. I bet you find yourselves being able to point out 5 more things than most coaches...If you can't and you walk away with Wow, I learned some stuff from this speech, then that might be a good coaching candidate.
gasbag	Posted - 02/13/2012 : 13:24:47 Wow sure is a lot of "is he a Dad coach" or not going on.....I'm of the mind who cares ? Most coaches are Dad's whom coached their own kids at one time or another and whom have stuck with coaching. So what ? Being a Dad coach doesn't make you a good or bad baseball coach. It has absolutely nothing to do with it. I understand at the younger ages there are many Dad coaches whom aren't experienced baseball guys but guess what, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to teach fundamentals, sportsmanship etc to little kids...it takes patience ! How many guys with pro or college experience do you see coaching 8 year old kids ? Why....because their experience is wasted on kids that young and coaching older kids is they can better share their insights and experience. But guess what, they wouldn't have many of the kids they have to select from the talent pool if it wasn't for those Dad coaches at the younger ages. I applaud all of the coaches, especially the non paid coaches whom work with our youth to teach this great game as well as life lessons. BTW, I was one of the Dad coaches at the younger ages whom realized one day that my son had outgrown my knowledge of the game and that I had to seek someone with more experience and insight for my son to continue to develop. Did I contribute to who he is today as a ballplayer....your dang skippy I did ! Was I solely responsible for it...ABSOLUTELY NOT ! I'm just happy I got to play a role in his development, as well as all the other kids I coached ! My long winded point is there are all kinds of coaches out there. Do your homework and match your son/daughter with whom you think they will benefit the most from. Don't just discard folks because they are moms/dads coaching and don't just assume a cat with pro or college experience is best. Sometimes the most educated and experienced make the worst coaches ! Don't assume anything !
90mph	Posted - 02/13/2012 : 11:14:21 quote: Originally posted by klhmlh My son plays on a summer 16u team at ECB and it isn�t the Astros or Titians. He has a paid coach that plays college baseball and then coaches in the summer. The reason my son decided to play with this team is he really liked his coach and felt that he was relevant to him. I�m telling you this young coach has his head on right and is working to improve these 16 year old young men. Nice post. You hit it....no pun! My son may be playing for the same team!
90mph	Posted - 02/13/2012 : 11:08:49 quote: Originally posted by AA17Dad Ok, OK, Here's the deal. ECB. has a killer "Grilled Chicken Ceaser Wrap" 6-4-3. Don't YUM....FINALY....GETTING TO WHAT'S IMPORTANT
AA17Dad	Posted - 02/13/2012 : 09:09:44 Ok, OK, Here's the deal. ECB. has a killer "Grilled Chicken Ceaser Wrap" 6-4-3. Don't
HITANDRUN	Posted - 02/13/2012 : 09:06:22 Organization means very little compared to finding a coach that knows what he is doing and one that your son enjoys playing for. In school ball you may not have the luxury of shopping around for a coach.
klhmlh	Posted - 02/12/2012 : 19:03:29 My son plays on a summer 16u team at ECB and it isn�t the Astros or Titians. He has a paid coach that plays college baseball and then coaches in the summer. The reason my son decided to play with this team is he really liked his coach and felt that he was relevant to him. I�m telling you this young coach has his head on right and is working to improve these 16 year old young men.
Triple	Posted - 02/12/2012 : 14:43:17 Sure is a lot of one-upping going on. Both 15U teams at 643 have dad coaches. Both the A team and the B team. For 15U at ECB most are paid coaches. I think 4 of the 12 are Dad coaches.
jongamefan	Posted - 02/12/2012 : 09:58:45 quote: Originally posted by AllStar I think either 4 or 5 of the ECB 16U teams have dad coaches. A large number of other 16U teams have dad coaches. I know first hand that there is not a large pool of qualified paid travel coaches out there. It would be interesting to figure out how many 16U teams there would be without dad coaches. Probably 1/3 fewer. How is that relevant to this thread? STAR: I think the number 16U dad coaches are VERY relevant to the number of teams After the Astros and maybe Titans it drops off clearly on player and team talent - so how important it really is to have the pro paid coaches for all teams Yea there is an opportunity for east cobb to get the Dad coaches and bring in more money and there is opportunity for those coaches to get out of it what they want too despite many cases of not being a true baseball coach. But then look at the low low percentage of 16U kids who ever make it to a college and I say whats the problem with a large program that makes big money by giving teens a chance to keep playing baseball for a few more years I would guess that the strength and ranking of these teams is a LOT more important to Dads and in some cases Moms than it is tho the 16uS themselves.
AllStar	Posted - 02/12/2012 : 00:40:30 I think either 4 or 5 of the ECB 16U teams have dad coaches. A large number of other 16U teams have dad coaches. I know first hand that there is not a large pool of qualified paid travel coaches out there. It would be interesting to figure out how many 16U teams there would be without dad coaches. Probably 1/3 fewer. How is that relevant to this thread?
bballman	Posted - 02/11/2012 : 22:28:56 Ok rippit. No one has any idea what they are talking about. And BTW, I just remembered. There was a 15 yr old 643 team last year that had a coach with his kid on the team. This guy is their 15 year old coach. He was before his kid was on the team and will be now that his kid is on the 16 yr old team. My bad. And for the record, I'm not putting down dad coaches. Read my post a couple posts ago. Without dad coaches, especially at the younger ages, there would be no baseball available for probably around 80% of the kids out there. Keep it up dads.
rippit	Posted - 02/11/2012 : 21:09:56 Omg. I get so sick of people spouting off about things they have no idea about. Dad head coach last year at ECB in 15u will be Dad head coach this year for 16u. He's awesome too. Why are you guys wasting your time trying to one up each other or claim king of all knowledge. Wouldnt YOUR time be better spent trying to help YOUR son become a better player?!
bballman	Posted - 02/11/2012 : 19:32:14 quote: Originally posted by Critical Mass quote: [i] Ages 15 and up at 643 are all paid coaches with no kids on the team. Not so fast...i can name several kids of coaches on their 15U squad today. I agree that at 15U and up at EC it's paid...my bad on that one. Not that I'm aware of at 15 and up at 643. I guess I could be wrong. I know there was at least one ECB team with a dad coaching a 17u team last year. EC Astros 17u had a dad coaching. Granted, he was probably paid and he is the coach of a HS team, but he still had a kid on the team.
Critical Mass	Posted - 02/11/2012 : 18:54:38 quote: [i] Ages 15 and up at 643 are all paid coaches with no kids on the team. Not so fast...i can name several kids of coaches on their 15U squad today. I agree that at 15U and up at EC it's paid...my bad on that one.
bballman	Posted - 02/11/2012 : 17:11:24 Good post Doc. My son played on 2 other teams before playing for 643 starting at 17u. Both were independent teams. He played from 12 thru 14 for a local rec travel team out of Roswell. We had great coaches, the kids learned a lot and we were very competitive. At 14, we made it either to the finals or semi-finals of 7 tournaments in a row, winning one. And they were all major tournaments. At 15 & 16 he was with a team out of Cumming coached by a former ECB coach. It was an independent team, and a very good one. My point is that you don't have to play at ECB or 643 or any other big name organization to get good coaching and play for a quality team. My son got a scholarship to play for a top 10 D2 school next year. He didn't play travel till the 12u age group. He didn't play for ECB, he didn't play for 643 until he was 17 and a junior in HS. He just worked at his craft, got good coaching from a group of dads until 14 and played with a group of guys he liked. I applaud ECB for what they did to get travel baseball on the map here in Georgia. This is seen as one of the top hotbeds for baseball talent in the country largely because of ECB. Without it, baseball would not be where it is today here. I also applaud 643 for their approach and what they want their organization to be. I think their motives are pure and what they want is to prepare kids for the next level the right way - by emphasising fundamentals and making sure the kids have fun. I also applaud all the other organizations out there and all the independent teams out there for the hard work they put in to develop kids. Are all of them good? No. Are all of them a good fit for your player? No. But, by and large, they are all trying to provide something for the kids on their team and help the kids. Find what's right for you and your son and go with it - regardless of program name or the status symbol of the team you are on.
Dr. Old School	Posted - 02/11/2012 : 16:10:21 ECB and 6-4-3 started at different times, with different variables, with different intentions. ECB was started in the 80's. Travel was non-existant and Guerry was looking to build an option where kids could be challenged and increase their abilities to get college scholarships. For those who have not read it, below is a link to an article that was done back in July 2005 on East Cobb. It talks a lot about the history. https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B4rhwbA4n1Z1ZTI5MGQ5OTUtMTU5Yi00MThiLTgyY2EtODIwN2U5MmUyYjdl Danny started 6-4-3 a few years ago using his knowledge he gained from coaching the 14U Astros at EC (I don't mean coaching knowledge, I mean knowledge of how things work with a travel organization. He has a lot more coaching experience than just the 14U Astros). From the outside looking in, he seemed to have believed that developing core fundamentals needed to be the base of his organization. The rest would take care of itself. His development model seems to have been to develop a smaller number of teams, with good fundamentals, and expand outward. Hence the reason he only has a couple teams at each age group. East Cobb paved the way for the other organizations to learn from and develop their models without the "learn as you go" methodology. I would ague that all the leadership at EC would love to snap their fingers and have a quality set of coaches for every team in all age groups. Unfortunately that is harder said than done with the number of teams they have. If they were to say "Ok, we are no longer going to allow teams to play out of EC without validating that they have qualified coaches." Now you have about 400 kids looking for somewhere else to play. You can say "EC would never do that because they don't want to lose the money those teams pay to play there." I would argue the first reason they would not do it is because that would put 400 kids trying to find somewhere else to play. I think everyone has to find the right place for their kid to play regardless of what they think about any organization. Do your research and know why you are playing with a certain organization or team. Many people are playing on teams because they like playing for a certain coach, or with a certain set of friends. Some are playing on a team because they think it is the best option to get them to where they are going. The good thing is, around here, there are a wide variety of options available.
bballman	Posted - 02/11/2012 : 13:43:57 quote: Originally posted by Critical Mass 643 still has Dad's coaching with their kids playing at the older ages...not much different than ECB at younger ages....however, at 14U and up...the elites teams at ECB have paid coaches WITHOUT Dads coaching. Ages 15 and up at 643 are all paid coaches with no kids on the team.
AA17Dad	Posted - 02/11/2012 : 11:37:54 quote: Originally posted by Critical Mass 643 still has Dad's coaching with their kids playing at the older ages...not much different than ECB at younger ages....however, at 14U and up...the elites teams at ECB have paid coaches WITHOUT Dads coaching. Also untrue....ECB does have "Sponsered" "Major" 14U teams with Dads of players not only coaching but Head Coaching.
AA17Dad	Posted - 02/11/2012 : 11:34:54 quote: Originally posted by injunchief2 Guys, I tired of this post ... here's the basic differences ECB brings in a ton of money to the area .... 643 doesn't. ECB allows other than "elite" players to follow their dream ... 643 doesn't. Sorry, but these are the facts. Wow...very narrow perspective and factually untrue.
Critical Mass	Posted - 02/11/2012 : 10:08:37 643 still has Dad's coaching with their kids playing at the older ages...not much different than ECB at younger ages....however, at 14U and up...the elites teams at ECB have paid coaches WITHOUT Dads coaching.
HITANDRUN	Posted - 02/09/2012 : 09:04:45 WOW... ECB may bring in more money than 643 but you can't say 643 doesn't bring in any money. ECB does allow non elite players to play and 643 certainly does too, they just don't have as many teams over there for AA and AAA ball players. Most of the 643 teams play a major schedule. The differences are much more than the above. 643 is smaller so you get more instruction as a whole per player. At ECB if you can fill out a form you can coach, 643 heads looks deep into the personalities and coaching philosophies of their coaches and makes sure they fit into their model, if they find out the don't they will not be allowed to coach the next season. Both are great places to play and there will always be happy and unhappy parents at both facilities.
bballman	Posted - 02/09/2012 : 08:55:57 quote: Originally posted by injunchief2 Guys, I tired of this post ... here's the basic differences ECB brings in a ton of money to the area .... 643 doesn't. ECB allows other than "elite" players to follow their dream ... 643 doesn't. Sorry, but these are the facts. Uh, I'd say it's a little more than that injun.

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