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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| sebaseball |
Posted - 04/07/2016 : 23:16:56
My apologies in advance as I asked this on the 13U board, but since I didn't get a definitive answer, thought I try my hand here.
On PG's tournament page, they say that they are following the Pitch Smart guidelines in regards to Pitching Limitations. Now, the Pitch Smart guidelines are just that, voluntary guidelines. But since PG is deferring to them, does that mean that they are enforcing them as written? If so, how are they policing this and how are they letting each of the teams know how many pitches have been thrown so that they will know who on their staff is available to pitch and/or who may be pitching illegally against them? I'm taking a team up there in a couple of weeks and would like to know what I'm dealing with before I get there. I support the Pitch Smart guidelines by the way, so it's not that I'm opposed to them. I just want to be prepared and manage my team effectively.
Anybody played with PG this spring and have first hand insight into this? |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| mikepayne |
Posted - 06/03/2016 : 14:42:05
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
For some perspective on all this. Some of you may know that my son played college baseball and just finished his last year. It was a phenomenal run, but it's over. I know times are different now, but he played rec ball until he was 12. Probably 25 to 30 games in the spring and 15 or so in the fall. Then he moved on to travel ball. We're not rich, so all of our vacations were baseball related. My son still brings up that he never had a spring break. His senior year of HS, he had like 3 days to go to Florida after spring break baseball ended and that was the only spring break he ever got. I think he regrets that a little, but he also was doing something that he loved. I haven't directly asked him yet, but I often wonder if he would have wanted to do things differently. I think the sting of it ending is still a little too close to ask yet. Most of his time playing baseball, he was one of the best. His last two years of college were a struggle. His sophomore year was great. Pitched 41 innings mostly in relief, ERA of 2.63, started an elimination game in the regionals and took a shutout into the 8th inning. He didn't get the win, but his team won and played in the regional finals. Great year. Junior and Senior years, he lost some velocity and didn't wind up getting to pitch a whole lot, so it was a disappointing end to a career. He was on a very good team with teammates that were like family, so it made it easier on him. Then it was over. No more "real" baseball.
I say all this because even though he's been playing organized baseball since he was 7 (16 years), he really was not ready for it to end yet. I think he still loves the game. He has talked about wanting to get in a men's league and continue to play. In college he was a pitcher only. He misses playing short stop and hitting and REALLY wants to do it again. I tried very hard over the years to be encouraging while still teaching him the game the right way. I didn't force him to do anything, didn't yell at him for making mistakes. To this day, I will be brutally honest with him about his performance, but not in a demeaning way. Just honest about it. One of the things that I think helped him keep his love for the game through all the time spent doing it, is that his closest friends were not baseball players. The guys he hung out with all the way through HS were the kids he was friends with since pre-K. In other words, he had a respite from baseball when he wasn't practicing or playing. I never discouraged that. Some of the kids are really good kids, some a little questionable, but they were his friends and I didn't discourage him. I did talk to him about making good decisions and the consequences of making bad decisions, but I didn't try to make him live his life 24/7 about baseball only. When he wasn't on the field, he was a normal kid with friends that were athletes, but not baseball players.
I think the fact that he still wants to play, even though his official baseball days are over, says something about how we dealt with things. He never got burned out, never got tired of playing, never lost his love of the game. As you go through this journey, remember that your son is your son first - a baseball player second. It is much more important to maintain your relationship with your son than to push the baseball too hard and strain that relationship. My son's profile picture on his twitter account has always been a picture of him pitching. When his playing days ended, he changed it to a picture of me, my wife and him in his uniform on senior day. I'm glad he still likes us enough to use that picture. 
Maybe my favorite post on this board. Good stuff. |
| hshuler |
Posted - 06/03/2016 : 13:37:45
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
For some perspective on all this. Some of you may know that my son played college baseball and just finished his last year. It was a phenomenal run, but it's over. I know times are different now, but he played rec ball until he was 12. Probably 25 to 30 games in the spring and 15 or so in the fall. Then he moved on to travel ball. We're not rich, so all of our vacations were baseball related. My son still brings up that he never had a spring break. His senior year of HS, he had like 3 days to go to Florida after spring break baseball ended and that was the only spring break he ever got. I think he regrets that a little, but he also was doing something that he loved. I haven't directly asked him yet, but I often wonder if he would have wanted to do things differently. I think the sting of it ending is still a little too close to ask yet. Most of his time playing baseball, he was one of the best. His last two years of college were a struggle. His sophomore year was great. Pitched 41 innings mostly in relief, ERA of 2.63, started an elimination game in the regionals and took a shutout into the 8th inning. He didn't get the win, but his team won and played in the regional finals. Great year. Junior and Senior years, he lost some velocity and didn't wind up getting to pitch a whole lot, so it was a disappointing end to a career. He was on a very good team with teammates that were like family, so it made it easier on him. Then it was over. No more "real" baseball.
I say all this because even though he's been playing organized baseball since he was 7 (16 years), he really was not ready for it to end yet. I think he still loves the game. He has talked about wanting to get in a men's league and continue to play. In college he was a pitcher only. He misses playing short stop and hitting and REALLY wants to do it again. I tried very hard over the years to be encouraging while still teaching him the game the right way. I didn't force him to do anything, didn't yell at him for making mistakes. To this day, I will be brutally honest with him about his performance, but not in a demeaning way. Just honest about it. One of the things that I think helped him keep his love for the game through all the time spent doing it, is that his closest friends were not baseball players. The guys he hung out with all the way through HS were the kids he was friends with since pre-K. In other words, he had a respite from baseball when he wasn't practicing or playing. I never discouraged that. Some of the kids are really good kids, some a little questionable, but they were his friends and I didn't discourage him. I did talk to him about making good decisions and the consequences of making bad decisions, but I didn't try to make him live his life 24/7 about baseball only. When he wasn't on the field, he was a normal kid with friends that were athletes, but not baseball players.
I think the fact that he still wants to play, even though his official baseball days are over, says something about how we dealt with things. He never got burned out, never got tired of playing, never lost his love of the game. As you go through this journey, remember that your son is your son first - a baseball player second. It is much more important to maintain your relationship with your son than to push the baseball too hard and strain that relationship. My son's profile picture on his twitter account has always been a picture of him pitching. When his playing days ended, he changed it to a picture of me, my wife and him in his uniform on senior day. I'm glad he still likes us enough to use that picture.
Good stuff! |
| Crazyforbball |
Posted - 06/03/2016 : 13:13:36
^^^^^^Great story!!! And some points every parent should take to heart that drills their child relentlessly in the sport. Hopefully one day your son will use his experience to be the coach kids WANT to play for because of the great attitude and lessons you clearly instilled in him. Good job!! |
| bballman |
Posted - 06/03/2016 : 10:40:55
For some perspective on all this. Some of you may know that my son played college baseball and just finished his last year. It was a phenomenal run, but it's over. I know times are different now, but he played rec ball until he was 12. Probably 25 to 30 games in the spring and 15 or so in the fall. Then he moved on to travel ball. We're not rich, so all of our vacations were baseball related. My son still brings up that he never had a spring break. His senior year of HS, he had like 3 days to go to Florida after spring break baseball ended and that was the only spring break he ever got. I think he regrets that a little, but he also was doing something that he loved. I haven't directly asked him yet, but I often wonder if he would have wanted to do things differently. I think the sting of it ending is still a little too close to ask yet. Most of his time playing baseball, he was one of the best. His last two years of college were a struggle. His sophomore year was great. Pitched 41 innings mostly in relief, ERA of 2.63, started an elimination game in the regionals and took a shutout into the 8th inning. He didn't get the win, but his team won and played in the regional finals. Great year. Junior and Senior years, he lost some velocity and didn't wind up getting to pitch a whole lot, so it was a disappointing end to a career. He was on a very good team with teammates that were like family, so it made it easier on him. Then it was over. No more "real" baseball.
I say all this because even though he's been playing organized baseball since he was 7 (16 years), he really was not ready for it to end yet. I think he still loves the game. He has talked about wanting to get in a men's league and continue to play. In college he was a pitcher only. He misses playing short stop and hitting and REALLY wants to do it again. I tried very hard over the years to be encouraging while still teaching him the game the right way. I didn't force him to do anything, didn't yell at him for making mistakes. To this day, I will be brutally honest with him about his performance, but not in a demeaning way. Just honest about it. One of the things that I think helped him keep his love for the game through all the time spent doing it, is that his closest friends were not baseball players. The guys he hung out with all the way through HS were the kids he was friends with since pre-K. In other words, he had a respite from baseball when he wasn't practicing or playing. I never discouraged that. Some of the kids are really good kids, some a little questionable, but they were his friends and I didn't discourage him. I did talk to him about making good decisions and the consequences of making bad decisions, but I didn't try to make him live his life 24/7 about baseball only. When he wasn't on the field, he was a normal kid with friends that were athletes, but not baseball players.
I think the fact that he still wants to play, even though his official baseball days are over, says something about how we dealt with things. He never got burned out, never got tired of playing, never lost his love of the game. As you go through this journey, remember that your son is your son first - a baseball player second. It is much more important to maintain your relationship with your son than to push the baseball too hard and strain that relationship. My son's profile picture on his twitter account has always been a picture of him pitching. When his playing days ended, he changed it to a picture of me, my wife and him in his uniform on senior day. I'm glad he still likes us enough to use that picture. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 06/03/2016 : 07:56:53
quote:
Originally posted by sebaseball
quote:
And how many times have you seen that even when a kid has a weekend off from their team the parents find the kid a pick up game, and that is on top of the pitching lesson, hitting lesson and 3 speed and agility classes the kid had that week. I think Parents are far more culpable in youth injuries than large organizations like PG.
Bingo! I just had a conversation with a gentleman this weekend from Memphis, TN. He said that he spends $20K/year on travel baseball for his 12U son as they only go to "big" tournaments in FL, TX, GA, AL, etc. They have players from all over the southeast, play year-round, have professional coaches, etc. Was bragging how they'd been playing 90 - 100 games a year since they were 9 years old. Said that his older son threw in the low 90s as a junior in HS and quit playing. His exact words were "I guess he just got burned out". YA THINK?
Really nice guy, but, IMO, he and everyone of his ilk are exactly what's wrong with travel baseball and give it a black eye. They can say all they want that this is making their kids better, etc, etc, but I guarantee you that if they played a sane schedule, spent 1/5 that amount and let their kids be kids instead of quasi professional players, they would be just as good in HS as they will be through that nonsense. They aren't doing it for their kids as much as they are doing for themselves to poke their chest out and feel good about themselves. It was a really sad conversation from my standpoint and reiterated everything that I'm working hard not to be as I lead my son and our team through this process.
I'm always saddened by these conversations too. The parent hears themselves explaining how much they are doing for their kid and how many opportunities they are providing their children with. What I hear is a kid who doesn't have time to be a kid and will most likely hate the sport by the time they are a senior in high school.
When baseball turns into more of a job that a game you have to be at a higher level to get through that and appreciate your skill and what doors it can open for you. If the parents turn it into a job at age 10...well, the kid isn't old enough to understand and just winds up resenting the sport.
My daughter just finished 7u rec ball, one day while I was with my 14u son at an indoor practice I saw a 7u kid from her team doing a strength training private lesson. Yes that kid was the best on the team but there is no point in a seven year old "training" for anything. |
| bballman |
Posted - 06/02/2016 : 14:57:49
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
It is on the parents. 100%. PG implementing pitchsmart is an effort to protect the kids whose parents won't. Team USA does the same. And it's my understanding that the program was developed by the MLB so I guess they are the ones everyone should be complaining to, not PG or others who adhere to it. Even then there is plenty of opportunity to work your way around it and pitch your child as much as possible for those who are, sadly, so inclined.
It was actually developed by ASMI through their research and endorsed/sponsored by MLB. As I mentioned earlier, PG and MANY other organizations are adopting these guidelines. And as CaCO3Girl mentioned, even if PG decided to shut down 6 months out of the year, there are plenty of other organizations who would be holding events for parents to get their kids in. Parents and coaches, take some responsibility... |
| Crazyforbball |
Posted - 06/02/2016 : 13:17:21
It is on the parents. 100%. PG implementing pitchsmart is an effort to protect the kids whose parents won't. Team USA does the same. And it's my understanding that the program was developed by the MLB so I guess they are the ones everyone should be complaining to, not PG or others who adhere to it. Even then there is plenty of opportunity to work your way around it and pitch your child as much as possible for those who are, sadly, so inclined. |
| sebaseball |
Posted - 06/01/2016 : 10:13:55
quote:
And how many times have you seen that even when a kid has a weekend off from their team the parents find the kid a pick up game, and that is on top of the pitching lesson, hitting lesson and 3 speed and agility classes the kid had that week. I think Parents are far more culpable in youth injuries than large organizations like PG.
Bingo! I just had a conversation with a gentleman this weekend from Memphis, TN. He said that he spends $20K/year on travel baseball for his 12U son as they only go to "big" tournaments in FL, TX, GA, AL, etc. They have players from all over the southeast, play year-round, have professional coaches, etc. Was bragging how they'd been playing 90 - 100 games a year since they were 9 years old. Said that his older son threw in the low 90s as a junior in HS and quit playing. His exact words were "I guess he just got burned out". YA THINK?
Really nice guy, but, IMO, he and everyone of his ilk are exactly what's wrong with travel baseball and give it a black eye. They can say all they want that this is making their kids better, etc, etc, but I guarantee you that if they played a sane schedule, spent 1/5 that amount and let their kids be kids instead of quasi professional players, they would be just as good in HS as they will be through that nonsense. They aren't doing it for their kids as much as they are doing for themselves to poke their chest out and feel good about themselves. It was a really sad conversation from my standpoint and reiterated everything that I'm working hard not to be as I lead my son and our team through this process. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 06/01/2016 : 07:52:31
quote:
Originally posted by RoamingCF
@bballman, THANK YOU!! It's on parents first, and those parents holding coaches to secondary responsibility.
I've witnessed (this year) a young kid (pre-Teen) have 3 separate outings over Sat-Sun, all 50+ Pitch outings, totaling close to 170 pitches. ALL WITHIN THE RULES OF THE TOURNEY.
And how many times have you seen that even when a kid has a weekend off from their team the parents find the kid a pick up game, and that is on top of the pitching lesson, hitting lesson and 3 speed and agility classes the kid had that week. I think Parents are far more culpable in youth injuries than large organizations like PG. |
| RoamingCF |
Posted - 05/27/2016 : 16:44:08
@bballman, THANK YOU!! It's on parents first, and those parents holding coaches to secondary responsibility.
I've witnessed (this year) a young kid (pre-Teen) have 3 separate outings over Sat-Sun, all 50+ Pitch outings, totaling close to 170 pitches. ALL WITHIN THE RULES OF THE TOURNEY. |
| bballman |
Posted - 05/27/2016 : 15:03:42
quote:
Originally posted by 743
If PG wants to truly Protect Pitchers they and all organizations would shut down baseball for 6 months or so no pitching practicing, showcases etc.
They really shouldn't have to do that. Different players from different parts of the country are only available during certain times of the year. Some areas of the country play their HS ball during the summer, so the fall is the only time those players can play in showcases or any kind of PG tournament. There are many other reasons, not the least of which, they are a business and provide a service.
The REAL responsibility falls on the parents and coaches. If a parent doesn't want his kid to throw too much, they need to take responsibility and keep their kid out for whatever period of time they feel necessary.
Why do we always want to place blame and responsibility on others? PG is limiting the amount of pitches a player can throw during their events, but they can't be responsible for how many events a player attends or how much rest that player gets during the year. That would be like casinos shortening their hours or only being open certain times of the year so people don't lose too much money.
Parents and coaches, be smart. Make sure your own kids and players don't play (pitch in particular) more than they should... |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 05/27/2016 : 14:37:18
quote:
Originally posted by 743
If PG wants to truly Protect Pitchers they and all organizations would shut down baseball for 6 months or so no pitching practicing, showcases etc.
yeah that will work! You know except for baseball factory and all the other places that would be glad to host events during that time with PG out of the way  |
| 743 |
Posted - 05/27/2016 : 13:39:02
If PG wants to truly Protect Pitchers they and all organizations would shut down baseball for 6 months or so no pitching practicing, showcases etc. |
| bballman |
Posted - 05/02/2016 : 22:33:50
I'm sure he wouldn't mind me sharing this, but I brought up some of the concerns brought up here with Jerry Ford with PG. Just to let you know where he is coming from, here is his response:
"Thanks, it is definitely a work in progress. I agree with everything you have said. People just have to realize why we are doing this... Protect pitchers.
We could probably put pitch counts on the board at LP, but nowhere else that we play. It is nearly impossible for our scorekeepers to be high on pitch count. They might be under because of missing a pitch, but it's nearly impossible to add a pitch.
Anyhow, I appreciate the information. We are working to solve the issues involved. Like anything new, we will learn and make adjustments. We have already decided to allow pitchers to finish the hitter without penalty. It really helps when people give us their thoughts.
Thanks again,
Jerry" |
| bballman |
Posted - 05/02/2016 : 22:25:15
More than just PG is going to the Pitchsmart guidelines. Here's a recent announcement by USA baseball which also lists a whole bunch of other organizations committed to the guidelines.
http://web.usabaseball.com/article.jsp?ymd=20160429&content_id=175228064&vkey=news_usab
|
| Newbie BB Mom |
Posted - 04/27/2016 : 08:08:33
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by Newbie BB Mom
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
Gotcha. We played PG last year and though they recommended pitchsmart, they did not require compliance. There was certainly no penalty not to comply as there was a couple of weeks ago, nor did they enforce it at their early tournaments this year. Personally I think it's a good idea. I saw a Facebook post about that book and didn't think it was fair to blame PG. I have not seen penalties until recently, however, after all that negative publicity. They did the responsible thing. They are just an easy scapegoat. It's the rise in travel ball as a whole and the drive to win win win at all cost that is to blame. You can see how frustrated people get when it is actually mandatory.
Honestly, blaming PG in any way for the rise in TJ surgeries is like blaming Kleenex for my cold!
I don't agree. It's much more complicated than that. All the organizations operating in the baseball industrial complex have some soul-searching to do. They all need to examine what they are doing (unthinkingly and unintentionally) to encourage the abuse of young players' arms and see if they can make changes that will help shift the current culture. There is plenty of blame to go around -- coaches, parents, academies, tournament runners, youth baseball organizations, etc., but PG needs to accept its share, too. Enforcing the Pitch Smart guidelines is a way to do that and help change the thinking on this subject.
By your logic should Triple Crown and USSSA also take part of the blame?
Yes. I think all of these organizations need to take a good look at their current practices, policies, game rules, etc. and see if there are changes they can make to ensure young arms are protected. Pitch Smart is a good start. Sounds like it will need to be refined as it is implemented. Also, further changes may need to be made as more research comes out about what exactly causes arm injuries and what exactly protects against them (the old overuse vs. mechanics vs. genetics debate). Hopefully, the MLB has decided to lead from the front on this issue as it is in their best interest to save as many good arms as possible. |
| TaxiMom |
Posted - 04/26/2016 : 21:30:31
quote:
Originally posted by Baseballer13
If your tired of the nonsense check this out...... We just attended another tourney there.... You help them they work with you! Thats why I'm posting this... The best alternative to Cooperstown that we know of is the Cocoa Expo Sports Center and it is about half the price. I was in Florida last week and stopped by the place and could not believe how awesome it was. The dorms are unbelievable, crown mold, big screen TV's in rooms, porcelain and marble. Huge rec hall with a ton of games and several 32' TV's. The stadium is major league with huge megatron scoreboard. They have a 35,000 sq ft training building with 16 indoor AC cages and they have video screens. I've never seen so many at one location. I'm not sure how many fields but they have a ton of them. They told me it's for all ages not just 12U. We have played all over the U.S. and I have never seen a place that has this much stuff for baseball people. We signed up already and can't wait to go. Check it out, they'll surely sell out quickly once the word gets out.
http://www.cocoaexpo.com/baseball/baseball-national-invitational-tournament-details
You attended a tourney there? Looks like you work for them (per your name in your profile and the fact that all 4 of your posts have been promoting this facility)...... {eye roll} |
| in_the_know |
Posted - 04/26/2016 : 19:01:41
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by Newbie BB Mom
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
Gotcha. We played PG last year and though they recommended pitchsmart, they did not require compliance. There was certainly no penalty not to comply as there was a couple of weeks ago, nor did they enforce it at their early tournaments this year. Personally I think it's a good idea. I saw a Facebook post about that book and didn't think it was fair to blame PG. I have not seen penalties until recently, however, after all that negative publicity. They did the responsible thing. They are just an easy scapegoat. It's the rise in travel ball as a whole and the drive to win win win at all cost that is to blame. You can see how frustrated people get when it is actually mandatory.
Honestly, blaming PG in any way for the rise in TJ surgeries is like blaming Kleenex for my cold!
I don't agree. It's much more complicated than that. All the organizations operating in the baseball industrial complex have some soul-searching to do. They all need to examine what they are doing (unthinkingly and unintentionally) to encourage the abuse of young players' arms and see if they can make changes that will help shift the current culture. There is plenty of blame to go around -- coaches, parents, academies, tournament runners, youth baseball organizations, etc., but PG needs to accept its share, too. Enforcing the Pitch Smart guidelines is a way to do that and help change the thinking on this subject.
By your logic should Triple Crown and USSSA also take part of the blame?
There is a difference between blame and responsibility. Frankly, you can blame PG, TC, Utrip, etc., etc. Include Twitter, facebook, youtube, every college and MLB team, ESPN, etc., etc.
That's the blame portion and they all do share some in the blame.
Responsibility.....That's on the coaches and parents. Period.
Now, did All those in the blame set out with the intent to hurt young children? No, absolutely not. But should they consider and monitor the results and take steps to do their best to mitigate the unintended consequences? I think they owe it to their customer base and I believe they agree and are trying to take steps to do so.
The bottom line is simple, High Velos gets scholarships and high draft slots. As long as that is a truth, there will be a rise in injuries of those pursuing it. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 04/26/2016 : 15:11:43
quote:
Originally posted by Newbie BB Mom
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
Gotcha. We played PG last year and though they recommended pitchsmart, they did not require compliance. There was certainly no penalty not to comply as there was a couple of weeks ago, nor did they enforce it at their early tournaments this year. Personally I think it's a good idea. I saw a Facebook post about that book and didn't think it was fair to blame PG. I have not seen penalties until recently, however, after all that negative publicity. They did the responsible thing. They are just an easy scapegoat. It's the rise in travel ball as a whole and the drive to win win win at all cost that is to blame. You can see how frustrated people get when it is actually mandatory.
Honestly, blaming PG in any way for the rise in TJ surgeries is like blaming Kleenex for my cold!
I don't agree. It's much more complicated than that. All the organizations operating in the baseball industrial complex have some soul-searching to do. They all need to examine what they are doing (unthinkingly and unintentionally) to encourage the abuse of young players' arms and see if they can make changes that will help shift the current culture. There is plenty of blame to go around -- coaches, parents, academies, tournament runners, youth baseball organizations, etc., but PG needs to accept its share, too. Enforcing the Pitch Smart guidelines is a way to do that and help change the thinking on this subject.
By your logic should Triple Crown and USSSA also take part of the blame? |
| Newbie BB Mom |
Posted - 04/26/2016 : 14:08:46
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
Gotcha. We played PG last year and though they recommended pitchsmart, they did not require compliance. There was certainly no penalty not to comply as there was a couple of weeks ago, nor did they enforce it at their early tournaments this year. Personally I think it's a good idea. I saw a Facebook post about that book and didn't think it was fair to blame PG. I have not seen penalties until recently, however, after all that negative publicity. They did the responsible thing. They are just an easy scapegoat. It's the rise in travel ball as a whole and the drive to win win win at all cost that is to blame. You can see how frustrated people get when it is actually mandatory.
Honestly, blaming PG in any way for the rise in TJ surgeries is like blaming Kleenex for my cold!
I don't agree. It's much more complicated than that. All the organizations operating in the baseball industrial complex have some soul-searching to do. They all need to examine what they are doing (unthinkingly and unintentionally) to encourage the abuse of young players' arms and see if they can make changes that will help shift the current culture. There is plenty of blame to go around -- coaches, parents, academies, tournament runners, youth baseball organizations, etc., but PG needs to accept its share, too. Enforcing the Pitch Smart guidelines is a way to do that and help change the thinking on this subject. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 04/26/2016 : 11:26:55
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
Gotcha. We played PG last year and though they recommended pitchsmart, they did not require compliance. There was certainly no penalty not to comply as there was a couple of weeks ago, nor did they enforce it at their early tournaments this year. Personally I think it's a good idea. I saw a Facebook post about that book and didn't think it was fair to blame PG. I have not seen penalties until recently, however, after all that negative publicity. They did the responsible thing. They are just an easy scapegoat. It's the rise in travel ball as a whole and the drive to win win win at all cost that is to blame. You can see how frustrated people get when it is actually mandatory.
Honestly, blaming PG in any way for the rise in TJ surgeries is like blaming Kleenex for my cold! |
| Crazyforbball |
Posted - 04/26/2016 : 09:32:52
Gotcha. We played PG last year and though they recommended pitchsmart, they did not require compliance. There was certainly no penalty not to comply as there was a couple of weeks ago, nor did they enforce it at their early tournaments this year. Personally I think it's a good idea. I saw a Facebook post about that book and didn't think it was fair to blame PG. I have not seen penalties until recently, however, after all that negative publicity. They did the responsible thing. They are just an easy scapegoat. It's the rise in travel ball as a whole and the drive to win win win at all cost that is to blame. You can see how frustrated people get when it is actually mandatory. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 04/25/2016 : 08:58:00
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
It can also work by just burning your pitchers one at a time by leaving them out there as long as possible, and as long as their pitch counts don't get ridiculous. So at the end of two pool games you can have 9 kids left who could still pitch. BUT everyone has to be "on" and at least 10 have to be able to pitch. He who has the best pitching and hitting combined will win. Great defense or great hitting alone won't get you through. If you have a shallow pitching lineup you are out. Conversely if you have great pitching and defense, but no hitting ..same outcome. But...isn't that what PG is all about?? I agree with taxi mom after you've "been there done that" for the cost TC or similar is a better value. When they are older it is the place to be for the serious competitors. For the younger groups you will see the same small number of teams make it to the end every time at PG with pitch smart in place. PG was recently largely blamed in a new book for being the primary cause of the increase in pitching related injuries to younger players. Strict adherence to pitch smart is most likely their answer to this. And it was developed by the MLB I believe, not PG or others, so it's probably a good idea in the long run.
The book came out last month and PG has been doing the pitch-smart guidelines for more than a year. It wasn't an answer to the book, protecting youth arms is something that they want to do. Here is PG's response to what the book said http://www.perfectgame.org/Articles/View.aspx?article=12373
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| Crazyforbball |
Posted - 04/23/2016 : 11:09:43
It can also work by just burning your pitchers one at a time by leaving them out there as long as possible, and as long as their pitch counts don't get ridiculous. So at the end of two pool games you can have 9 kids left who could still pitch. BUT everyone has to be "on" and at least 10 have to be able to pitch. He who has the best pitching and hitting combined will win. Great defense or great hitting alone won't get you through. If you have a shallow pitching lineup you are out. Conversely if you have great pitching and defense, but no hitting ..same outcome. But...isn't that what PG is all about?? I agree with taxi mom after you've "been there done that" for the cost TC or similar is a better value. When they are older it is the place to be for the serious competitors. For the younger groups you will see the same small number of teams make it to the end every time at PG with pitch smart in place. PG was recently largely blamed in a new book for being the primary cause of the increase in pitching related injuries to younger players. Strict adherence to pitch smart is most likely their answer to this. And it was developed by the MLB I believe, not PG or others, so it's probably a good idea in the long run. |
| brball |
Posted - 04/22/2016 : 23:24:38
quote:
Originally posted by OPHornets
So, after our first experience, I can say we played longer than we typically do as the umps let us go 1:40 from our scheduled even though we started 10 minutes early. Free 10 minutes for us!
Last weekend we played 5 games and played 6 innings in every game all with a 1:30 time limit. Tonight, we would have hit it in the top of the third. We still only used four pitchers for four innings but I had to make pitching changes where I normally wouldn't just in case we played tomorrow night. (Count was 1-2 and the batter fouled off three pitches - had to remove my pitcher just to be safe.)
I dont know if it was the beautiful field, beautiful setting, or just the smell in the air but I couldn't ask for a better night of baseball. That place is freakin awesome.
Awesome = Lakepointe!!!
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