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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Il Leonne |
Posted - 04/03/2016 : 17:37:10
Parents of older players. I'm curious about when your sons began to develop their competitive fire. I've always been interested in when it starts to happen in young players. My kid is 10 yrs old and I'm only starting to catch glimpses of it. When I say this, I mean to say that during practice and games I'm starting to see the drive/effort it will take to be successful on the ball field and in life in general. He is talented, but I'm trying to teach him that hard work and dedication will take a person to the promised land.
Maybe some of you who have kids that play high school or college ball can talk about the journey and things you wished you had known sooner.
Thanks |
| 17 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Crazyforbball |
Posted - 04/06/2016 : 10:26:47
I think that is just part of the fabric of who they are or are not. I have seen teeny kids with the fire and big kids without ... tends to be the ones who live breath and eat the sport who have the drive. You can't "teach it." If you see it on a majors team it's most likely not because they were taught that but rather because as a general rule those teams recruit those types of players. Some kids, even very talented ones, will never have the drive, and that's ok. It can be frustrating for a parent who sees their kid as throwing it away but in fairness to the players, even young ones, it takes a lot of sacrifice to play any sport competitively and those sacrifices increase exponentially as they get older....having to miss out on events like dances, dates, hanging out with friends. If their first love is not their sport they will have a tough time making it to the next level against players who are singularly driven to play ball. And being humble with the drive is an absolute necessity. |
| hshuler |
Posted - 04/05/2016 : 12:00:09
quote:
Originally posted by bfriendly
Seems like none of you all give yourself enough credit. I said it comes from parents that teach it. I think most of you have made my point for me.......WE teach our kids with our every move.
Most of you all exposed your kids to winning and losing at an early age and thus, Taught them or maybe encouraged the competitive fire is a better word. We may have not done it consciously, but it came from the parents(us) example................I too know the pleasure of my kid finally beating me. I never let him win and I would have it no other way.
If we pounded into our kids that there were no winners or losers, just participants, they would think winning was wrong and they would probably not develop competitive fire..........not til they experience winning vs losing.
Here's why I disagree and agree...have you ever seen two kids raised in the same house, by the same parents, with the same rules who are wired differently? I have...so again, I think you're born with it. Or psycho parent with the nicest most politely kid...lol! But, I do agree that SOME of our behaviors are learned. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 04/05/2016 : 08:24:46
quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44
<<It starts to be too much work for the kid that just wanted to play around with a baseball. All of a sudden everyone surpasses his ability and he's on the bench or doesn't make the team he wanted to..>>
Apparently you haven't had the joy yet of watching high school baseball where the entitled juniors and seniors get to go thru the motions of pretending to play baseball.
You won't find competitive fire developed in high school, its there long before that age for many major level baseball players. As early as 10, 11, definitely by 12.
What you can see is competitive fire dampened or put to the test in high school as the coach goes thru the basic motions of competition, but fosters no real competition because its easier to ignore the younger players.
Sounds like your kid had a rough HS experience.
I've seen the kid who has been the stud player from 9u-11u get on a 12u tryout field and inform EVERYONE that he of course had already made the team, these tryouts were just a formality as his parents sat in the stands looking like the King and Queen. That kid wasn't chosen for that team because the coaches didn't want to deal with the ego. Three years later that boy plays football and does not play baseball. He claimed there was a good 'ol boy network with ALL the coaches of the Major teams and he had been black listed by a coach who didn't like him "just because I was better than his kid."...random excuses of why 13u-15u kids quit are plentiful. |
| RoamingCF |
Posted - 04/05/2016 : 06:26:19
quote:
Originally posted by hshuler
From my experience it can't be taught. Some kids are just wired to be more aggresive than other. That's why two aggressive kids would fight over the ball in t-ball and two passive kids would wait for the other to get it.
Work ethic, in my opinion, can be taught. Instill the importance of hard work and if he's not working hard and not seeing desired results it's a great life lesson. Don't be afraid to let him fail if he's not working hard.
I will caution you to not drag him outisde if he doesn't want to go. That scenario will not end well because he has to want to get better.
I also agree with hschuler & bballman, some kids are wired like this & others may never have same wiring. That beings said, in baseball, the key is keeping them focused WHEN they have the expected failures on the field. The key difference between those who remain playing and those who never quite achieve expectations is ability to cope with inevitable failure of this game.
You can teach work ethic, but you also have to train them to let the failure go...in my opinion, also a "wiring" challenge for some kids. |
| bfriendly |
Posted - 04/05/2016 : 01:44:13
Seems like none of you all give yourself enough credit. I said it comes from parents that teach it. I think most of you have made my point for me.......WE teach our kids with our every move.
Most of you all exposed your kids to winning and losing at an early age and thus, Taught them or maybe encouraged the competitive fire is a better word. We may have not done it consciously, but it came from the parents(us) example................I too know the pleasure of my kid finally beating me. I never let him win and I would have it no other way.
If we pounded into our kids that there were no winners or losers, just participants, they would think winning was wrong and they would probably not develop competitive fire..........not til they experience winning vs losing. |
| bballman |
Posted - 04/04/2016 : 22:28:29
Sunday night, my son's college team was playing a conference game. Game was in the 13th inning, my son had been warming up in the bullpen since the 5th. Bottom of the 13th, bases loaded 2 outs, we were up 10-8, they finally bring him out. Fortunately he got a strike out to end the game. My wife asked him after the game if he was nervous. Nope, he wanted to be in there. Gave a big fist pump after the K and went to high 5 all his teammates. Competitive spirit...
I always think of the movie "The Replacements" when Gene Hackman says to Kneau Reeves - "Winners always want the ball when the game is on the line". Excellent line - and true. |
| Renegade44 |
Posted - 04/04/2016 : 21:30:38
<<It starts to be too much work for the kid that just wanted to play around with a baseball. All of a sudden everyone surpasses his ability and he's on the bench or doesn't make the team he wanted to..>>
Apparently you haven't had the joy yet of watching high school baseball where the entitled juniors and seniors get to go thru the motions of pretending to play baseball.
You won't find competitive fire developed in high school, its there long before that age for many major level baseball players. As early as 10, 11, definitely by 12.
What you can see is competitive fire dampened or put to the test in high school as the coach goes thru the basic motions of competition, but fosters no real competition because its easier to ignore the younger players. |
| whits23 |
Posted - 04/04/2016 : 20:59:23
i probably confused the topic with work ethic or detoured from the topic but agree its sort of like being cool and calm at the foul line or with a 0-2 count and you need the run from 3rd. everyone is sweating but the kid knows exactly what is going on.
Ever take your kid to a basketball game and they want to run on the court and play or to a batting cage and they want to know what the fastest speed is it will throw?
those kids have it |
| hshuler |
Posted - 04/04/2016 : 18:16:25
Maybe my kid is different but it didn't magically show up at an arbitrary age. It was there in pre-school when he wanted to answer all the questions so he could get a ribbon for the day. I think you're born with it and competition just fuels the fire.
In all my years of coaching, I've never seen a really passive kid become super aggressive or vice versa. Coaches love trying to make football players aggresive but they will do it for two plays and then revert back to natural personality. |
| BamaDad |
Posted - 04/04/2016 : 16:47:32
My son has always been competitive. Now that he is getting some size on him he wants to compete against me quite a bit. It stokes his competitive fire when we go head to head in H-O-R-S-E, making accurate throws with a baseball, or anything else where we can legitimately compete. He is extremely proud of himself when he wins and knows that I came fully engaged. However, he is not prouder than I am when he beats me. Bottom line, competitive fire is not taught. It comes from an internal drive to win and a HATE for losing. I had it and my son is beginning to display it at 11. Hopefully, it will drive him to push himself to work hard to be the best he can be in all facets of life. |
| whits23 |
Posted - 04/04/2016 : 16:08:03
I have always said when they get a driver lic and go thru puberty if they are hitting off a TEE still they are motivated. I see too many kids and parents who run to lessons but never spend hours at the park. It is the microwave mentality..here fix it quick.
I think my son had it when the coach demanded you earn your playing time and compete for your position and they started playing WWBA style events. I would say around age 13..however he was competitive from birth but that does not always mean willing to work.
I hate to say this and open a new box but it also started when i stopped coaching him and let him go his own way. I love coaching so have coached ever since just not his teams. |
| bballman |
Posted - 04/04/2016 : 15:42:49
quote:
Originally posted by hshuler
From my experience it can't be taught. Some kids are just wired to be more aggresive than other.
I tend to agree with this. My son has NEVER liked to lose. That's not to say that he outwardly demonstrates bad behavior when he loses, but winning whatever he did was always a priority for him. On the baseball field, you would rarely see an outward display of emotion from him. Win or lose. But there were times when, say he was pitching, that after giving up a big hit or run, that the next pitch had some extra juice on it. I would ask him after the game if he put something extra on that next pitch and his response was "Yeah, I was pissed about giving up that run". You never would have know it just watching him, but it was there underneath. I was and am very competitive. I don't like to lose. Maybe some of that rubbed off on him, but I never really taught him consciously.
I know I have always thought it was stupid to not play to win. No matter what the age. I still tell my kids, now 22 & 20 that they better win when they go out and play even pick up sports with their friends. I've probably done that since they were little. It was never a conscious effort to make them competitive, it's just the way it was. If they got hurt, it was "man up". We always joke that this was the progression - "If it's not bleeding, you're ok" - "If it doesn't need stitches, your ok" - "If there's no bone showing, you're ok". I think that contributed to them being tough competitors, physically and mentally.
Maybe it's something that is wired in the kids. Maybe it's the way they are treated by their parents growing up or maybe it's just they way the family lives their lives that make a kid super competitive. I'm not sure there is a way someone can go about making that happen on purpose. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 04/04/2016 : 13:46:28
You are right that it's hard work that will win in the end. My son has always been competitive. He wanted to throw harder, hit farther, run faster, than everyone else. He didn't begrudge another kid who was doing it better but he worked harder on whatever he felt he was lacking.
Around 14u it comes down to who wants to work for it and who is going to lean back and wait for their natural talent to take over. Only kids who work at pitching will make it to the next level, only kids that do a pop up drill 1000 will make it to the next level. It gets to a point where natural ability can't be the only thing a player has, he has to want to get better and be better than the next kid. Around 14/15 is when the large number of kids playing baseball shrinks. It starts to be too much work for the kid that just wanted to play around with a baseball. All of a sudden everyone surpasses his ability and he's on the bench or doesn't make the team he wanted to...then they magically get interested in football or computers or video games and "are too busy to play baseball", and they pursue other things. |
| hshuler |
Posted - 04/04/2016 : 12:22:35
From my experience it can't be taught. Some kids are just wired to be more aggresive than other. That's why two aggressive kids would fight over the ball in t-ball and two passive kids would wait for the other to get it.
Work ethic, in my opinion, can be taught. Instill the importance of hard work and if he's not working hard and not seeing desired results it's a great life lesson. Don't be afraid to let him fail if he's not working hard.
I will caution you to not drag him outisde if he doesn't want to go. That scenario will not end well because he has to want to get better. |
| bfriendly |
Posted - 04/04/2016 : 10:30:49
quote:
Originally posted by ABC_Baseball
My kid is only a year ahead but I would be interested to know as well. I did see it out of one major level team this past weekend. I think that has more to do with how they have been taught to practice and warm up. So they know that the expectations are that every ground ball you take, every throw you make is "game situation" when you are warming up. The focus seems to always be there vs some others that just leisurely go through the motions.
BOOOM!! Nail meet Head!! THAT imho is one of the biggest differences in Level..........It is 100% mental. Attitude and Effort are two things we all have Complete Control over.
Sorry if I got off topic..........Leonne, I believe the fire can come as early as they understand winning versus losing. Playing with no winning or losing will NEVER create a competitive fire in children. Gamesmanship should always come first....but the fire to win comes from parents that teach it. My son has had it since he was 5, that I remember...........he wants to win, wants to practice to get better...Wants to win, everytime!
If I were to ever give myself any credit for that, I'd say its because I would NEVER LET HIM BEAT ME! It started with the video game "Forza Motorsports". I never let him beat me...but eventually he got to the point of Dominating me at the game I owned him on. Now it is me who celebrates if I can beat him
He's beat me at Chess and Checkers and it took a long time for him to do that. How special do you think those vicories over his dad were for him? It meant a lot to both of us.........Him knowing he truly beat me and me knowing that he beat me when I GAVE him NOTHING! |
| ABC_Baseball |
Posted - 04/04/2016 : 07:59:05
My kid is only a year ahead but I would be interested to know as well. I did see it out of one major level team this past weekend. I think that has more to do with how they have been taught to practice and warm up. So they know that the expectations are that every ground ball you take, every throw you make is "game situation" when you are warming up. The focus seems to always be there vs some others that just leisurely go through the motions. |
| TAZ980002 |
Posted - 04/03/2016 : 22:15:38
Il Leonne, the best piece of advice I could give you is to encourage your son to give 100% effort and 100% attitude with everything he does on the ball field. He will succeed and he will fail. It's part of the game. Never walk away from a game or practice saying "I wish I had tried harder". If he gives 100% of both, praise him for his effort and attitude and tell him how much you love to watch him play. If he's good enough to make it to each next level as he grows, he will. If he doesn't, it shouldn't be because he didn't give it his all. |
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