| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 02/17/2016 : 10:05:25
This is the advice that has stuck with me for a few years now, the person I spoke to made some credible remarks (at least to me):
1. The biggest difference in high AAA and Majors is pitching depth.
2. The Major talent level kid on a high AAA team will get more game reps than he likely will on a Major team.
3. Major teams play in Major tourneys that cost more than an average tourney. Therefore their team costs are increased drastically.
4. Until the player hits the big field and puberty no one knows what they are capable of. The 15u team doesn't care if the kid was on the most elite 8u team.
5. The coach for the number one 9u Georgia team will not be that teams coach every year until 17u. Every year every kid has to tryout again, likely with a new coach, just because you are on the 9u team doesn't mean you will make the 10u team.
Thoughts?
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| 22 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| teamgamark |
Posted - 03/03/2016 : 15:46:05
With 15Ubaseball. Two boys one had wonderful major experience and staying with it. The other not so much and been better elsewhere. no one rule fits all. |
| 15UBaseball |
Posted - 02/26/2016 : 13:29:35
If your son is good enough to play on a MAJOR Team play on a major team. There are advantages to it. If your son will not play daily on a Major team find a team he will play on. That is what it boils down too. |
| T13 |
Posted - 02/19/2016 : 09:14:47
It really doesn't matter as long as the kids are having fun! |
| Newbie BB Mom |
Posted - 02/18/2016 : 19:10:51
I'm with Shuler. No one size fits all. Some players will thrive in a situation that others won't. Know your kid. Find the situation that works for him.
Above all else, make sure he keeps having fun and keeps getting better, in that order.
Also, for fun, go check out a roster for one of the 14u and 15u East Cobb Astros teams sometime. Kids new to major-level ball and or to East Cobb Baseball join those teams each year. The same is true at 643. There are many ways to skin that cat. |
| turntwo |
Posted - 02/18/2016 : 18:16:02
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
....and kids are motivated when they succeed, even if they are the stud of the team.
Not always. PLENTY of those 'stud' kids on lesser teams, playing lesser competition either 1- get bored, because the game is 'too easy' for them, and/or 2- give up the game when competition gets too fierce. Case in point, I know kids that have been the 'studs' for their 14U AA team, only to get cut from high school team and wonder why???? Why, when I struck out 2/3rds of the batters I faced last year, did I not make the team? Why isn't my 63 MPH fastball not good enough anymore? Or even, 'my son led the team in BA and OBP least year. He's easily your leadoff hitter'-- only to realize lil Frankie was hitting lobbed in pitches from AA pitchers, and now that he's facing Major level velocity and breaking pitchers, gets discouraged, and quits, because he batted .021 over the first 3 months of the season.
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
I looked through who is signed up for the PG events and I have to say I saw Major teams listed again and again for all age groups. Has anyone ever seen the ECB Astros or the 643 Cougars signed up to play a small tourney with maybe 6-8 teams in it? Maybe I missed it but I usually see them signed up for TC, PG, and other expensive tourneys because that is where the Major teams play, and I think they stopped with USSSA around 11u.
Again, PG and TC are 'open' tourneys. Look at 9's, 10's, 11's... You'll see teams from just about rec ball all-stars up to the 'Stros (high Major) (excluding WWBA's, Super25's-- where teams that KNOW what PG is all about, wouldn't just want to donate money to a losing cause. Although, I've seen some Regional and Super Regional qualifiers for Super25 run as much as $200 LESS than that of a 'regular' PG event...). Cost is the same per level, within the same age group. Same with TC. ACTUALLY, the D2/D3 tourneys out in Cumming, where a $150 gate fee is MANDATORY for the TEAM to foot the bill, those tourneys for the 'lower' teams cost MORE to the team then the D1/Open TC tourneys at ECB.... Of course, cost per age group may go up, but the 'level' doesn't cost more/less. |
| BamaDad |
Posted - 02/18/2016 : 17:07:51
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by LFconcessions
CACO - not sure what your really driving towards here.
I realize that you stated hypothetical but I checked the budget for my sons 14u ECB team from a few years ago, and it was $1800. It was a talented team that played majors and we kept the budget tight, and even gave the families $s back at the end of the year. Every teams budget is different so ya may be talking apples and oranges here.
Budget is just part of the equation in determining the 'right fit' & right path for your son (as hshuler stated).
LF, by any chance were there 100% dad coaches on that ECB team a few years back? Not having a paid coach would help with costs, and was that prior to PG being local?
Bama and Sebaseball...you guys are on total opposite sides of the coin, which is interesting and very telling on why there is a divide in youth baseball about this topic. Kids don't get better unless they play with better....and kids are motivated when they succeed, even if they are the stud of the team.
I looked through who is signed up for the PG events and I have to say I saw Major teams listed again and again for all age groups. Has anyone ever seen the ECB Astros or the 643 Cougars signed up to play a small tourney with maybe 6-8 teams in it? Maybe I missed it but I usually see them signed up for TC, PG, and other expensive tourneys because that is where the Major teams play, and I think they stopped with USSSA around 11u.
CaCO,I can only speak for the my son and the kids that he hangs around. He has been the "stud dog" in the past playing at a level that may have been slightly below his true ability. He did that to play with his friends. It did allow him to play entire games and everywhere on the field that he desired. However, he became complacent and stopped getting better because he no longer had to push himself. For some kids, that is enough. For him and his ilk, they need to be pushed to stay sharp. I gave him the option of returning to his former team where he had guaranteed PT and would be the "go-to" guy. He chose to play at the higher level because it stoked his competitive fire having to keep up with his teammates. He is growing talent-wise at a faster pace because the instruction is at a higher level as well. All kids are not the same. Some may be discouraged by not being the team stud. IF, the kid has the internal drive to be the best he can be, then he wants to compete against the best whether it is in practice or a game. |
| LFconcessions |
Posted - 02/18/2016 : 16:43:48
CaCo - very good questions.
We did have a paid coach. The head coach (not paid) playbook @ 14u was close to 160 pages, and the kids had to pass all the levels in the playbook before they received their Sunday hat/jersey. Luv'd that they had to earn their opportunity to play on Sunday by putting in both the mental & physical work to become a better ballplayer. My son came home from practice the other night and said his HS coaches were teaching the kids about timed steals/tendency reads, and son said he chuckled to himself b/c his 13/14 coach had taught him that years ago.  Don't want to take this thread in a different direction but there are some Dad coaches that are pretty good too.
The team played both TripleCrown (shout out to Tony/Donny, as they do a GREAT job) and 14u/15u PG too. |
| Crazyforbball |
Posted - 02/18/2016 : 14:14:53
Turn two you nailed it....you are 100% correct. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 02/18/2016 : 13:21:11
quote:
Originally posted by LFconcessions
CACO - not sure what your really driving towards here.
I realize that you stated hypothetical but I checked the budget for my sons 14u ECB team from a few years ago, and it was $1800. It was a talented team that played majors and we kept the budget tight, and even gave the families $s back at the end of the year. Every teams budget is different so ya may be talking apples and oranges here.
Budget is just part of the equation in determining the 'right fit' & right path for your son (as hshuler stated).
LF, by any chance were there 100% dad coaches on that ECB team a few years back? Not having a paid coach would help with costs, and was that prior to PG being local?
Bama and Sebaseball...you guys are on total opposite sides of the coin, which is interesting and very telling on why there is a divide in youth baseball about this topic. Kids don't get better unless they play with better....and kids are motivated when they succeed, even if they are the stud of the team.
I looked through who is signed up for the PG events and I have to say I saw Major teams listed again and again for all age groups. Has anyone ever seen the ECB Astros or the 643 Cougars signed up to play a small tourney with maybe 6-8 teams in it? Maybe I missed it but I usually see them signed up for TC, PG, and other expensive tourneys because that is where the Major teams play, and I think they stopped with USSSA around 11u. |
| BamaDad |
Posted - 02/18/2016 : 12:08:16
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
Sounds like bologna reasons to me.
Your son should play with and against competition that is on level for him where he is challenged, pushed and can grow. If the player is a major level player, that's where he should play. To the specific points:
1. True, but not just pitching depth, but who cares? Why should this be a reason to or not to play on a major team
2. Reps will be based on size or roster and ability of player. If the question is "should my AA or AAA son be a bench/role player on a major team before 13u, then the answer is no. But that goes back to my original comment that he should be playing with talent on his level.
3. Not necessarily true, however, there are podunk tournaments in areas that are geared to the rec+ travel level team. If your son is a stud, he will not be challenged playing there. Most tournaments around metro Atlanta are in the same general price range. And if you really want to look at it, consider a roster of 12 players in a $400 tournament vs a $650 tournament. $33/player or $54/player. Seriously????
4. By using this argument, you should invest no more than rec level in a kid until he's past puberty. Yes, sounds just as stupid if you say it out loud.
5. Don't believe there's any contractual obligation at 9 to sign and remain committed to a coach until 17, so again, irrelevant.
The points raised by this person don't hold any credible weight to the question IMHO
Let's consider these hypothetical dollar amounts as fact. To play on a high end AAA team costs $1500 a year, to play on a Majors team costs $2500 a year. The parent(s) want their baseball player to play year round because he enjoys it and wants to get ready for HS baseball and has said he wants to play beyond that, but coming up with an extra 1K would be tough...doable, but tough.
Is there such a huge difference between Majors and high AAA baseball for the player?
To answer your question, yes. As they say, steel sharpens steel. Someone said above how better competition helps certain grow. If a child is low AAA-level, then maybe AAA competition is best for him. If the child is high AAA to Major level, then it may hurt the child. I have seen kids who were clearly high AAA to Major level and were playing AAA. They were clearly the best player on their team and usually on the field in games. They didn't get any better because they were rarely pushed. That's where the difference lies, when a kid is truly an elite player. |
| sebaseball |
Posted - 02/18/2016 : 10:45:59
"Is there such a huge difference between Majors and high AAA baseball for the player?"
I'm interested in how you quantify a "high" AAA team verses any other AAA team? If they are AAA, they are going to be playing AAA tournaments against other AAA teams/players. Some will be better than others and some will be worse than others, but all in all, they'll be AAA.
My take is to find a team that your son can handle the competition level, he gets consistent playing time, and quality coaching in a positive environment. Being a backup player on any team doesn't get you better; you gotta play. It's also not a bad thing for your child be the stud dog and see tangible success for all of the hard work he puts in. You might find that to be the best motivator of all. They only get one time through this process, let them enjoy the moment(s). |
| tellit |
Posted - 02/18/2016 : 09:39:12
Biggest difference is in the coaching for the most part, and lessons can make up for any deficiencies. This is still a kids game and kids like playing with their buddies. Once they hit the big field everything they did means nada, so lets hope they had fun. |
| LFconcessions |
Posted - 02/18/2016 : 09:38:11
CACO - not sure what your really driving towards here.
I realize that you stated hypothetical but I checked the budget for my sons 14u ECB team from a few years ago, and it was $1800. It was a talented team that played majors and we kept the budget tight, and even gave the families $s back at the end of the year. Every teams budget is different so ya may be talking apples and oranges here.
Budget is just part of the equation in determining the 'right fit' & right path for your son (as hshuler stated). |
| turntwo |
Posted - 02/18/2016 : 09:23:13
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
Sounds like bologna reasons to me.
Your son should play with and against competition that is on level for him where he is challenged, pushed and can grow. If the player is a major level player, that's where he should play. To the specific points:
1. True, but not just pitching depth, but who cares? Why should this be a reason to or not to play on a major team
2. Reps will be based on size or roster and ability of player. If the question is "should my AA or AAA son be a bench/role player on a major team before 13u, then the answer is no. But that goes back to my original comment that he should be playing with talent on his level.
3. Not necessarily true, however, there are podunk tournaments in areas that are geared to the rec+ travel level team. If your son is a stud, he will not be challenged playing there. Most tournaments around metro Atlanta are in the same general price range. And if you really want to look at it, consider a roster of 12 players in a $400 tournament vs a $650 tournament. $33/player or $54/player. Seriously????
4. By using this argument, you should invest no more than rec level in a kid until he's past puberty. Yes, sounds just as stupid if you say it out loud.
5. Don't believe there's any contractual obligation at 9 to sign and remain committed to a coach until 17, so again, irrelevant.
The points raised by this person don't hold any credible weight to the question IMHO
Let's consider these hypothetical dollar amounts as fact. To play on a high end AAA team costs $1500 a year, to play on a Majors team costs $2500 a year. The parent(s) want their baseball player to play year round because he enjoys it and wants to get ready for HS baseball and has said he wants to play beyond that, but coming up with an extra 1K would be tough...doable, but tough.
Is there such a huge difference between Majors and high AAA baseball for the player?
Until maybe 13 or so (maybe older), the difference between the cost of Major and AAA tourneys aren't even as exaggerated as in the know stated. Triple Crown is all the same. PG is the same (as 'open' tourneys). USSSA (that loses a LOT of appeal after 11U) is the only one I see the difference. Now sure, if you ONLY play PG and they are $600, vs. USSSA at $350-$500 then yea, there's a more significant price difference.
Physical attributes alone, I feel there's a HUGE difference between AAA and Major.... What I've witnessed in Major teams has been 'heart' and 'internal drive'... You see a Major team, and as soon as they step in the dugout, 'it's on'. They are there to 'go to work'. There's no grab a$$. No putzing around. Coaches aren't barking at the players, or pushing them to get warmed up. The boys know what the drill is. The coach doesn't have to raise his voice in terms of getting kids to pay attention, or know where the play is... The kids know. The kids are VERY coachable, they have VERY high baseball IQ's. They love the game. They go out there and bust their a$$ every pitch or every game, and lay it all out on the line-- for THEMSELVES. For their TEAM. Not for coach. Not for mom and dad. They are the extremely competitive kids (by nature), that want to push themselves to get better, and play against the best. They scrap and gut out losses, with the mindset of, 'we can win this'... They step in the box to hit, with the mentality of 'bring it, I can hit it' (no crying or scared because of the velocity they are about to see). SO many examples like this, is what I feel the difference is between the two.
SURE, there are PLENTY of kids that are on AAA, who have ALL of these traits, but want to have 'fun' on a more relaxed team, and that's fine. But I'm just saying, what I've personally witnessed, I could tell you within 10 seconds of seeing two teams warm up, which is the Major and which is the AAA (and again, I'm not talking about ability). |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 02/18/2016 : 07:50:30
quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
Sounds like bologna reasons to me.
Your son should play with and against competition that is on level for him where he is challenged, pushed and can grow. If the player is a major level player, that's where he should play. To the specific points:
1. True, but not just pitching depth, but who cares? Why should this be a reason to or not to play on a major team
2. Reps will be based on size or roster and ability of player. If the question is "should my AA or AAA son be a bench/role player on a major team before 13u, then the answer is no. But that goes back to my original comment that he should be playing with talent on his level.
3. Not necessarily true, however, there are podunk tournaments in areas that are geared to the rec+ travel level team. If your son is a stud, he will not be challenged playing there. Most tournaments around metro Atlanta are in the same general price range. And if you really want to look at it, consider a roster of 12 players in a $400 tournament vs a $650 tournament. $33/player or $54/player. Seriously????
4. By using this argument, you should invest no more than rec level in a kid until he's past puberty. Yes, sounds just as stupid if you say it out loud.
5. Don't believe there's any contractual obligation at 9 to sign and remain committed to a coach until 17, so again, irrelevant.
The points raised by this person don't hold any credible weight to the question IMHO
Let's consider these hypothetical dollar amounts as fact. To play on a high end AAA team costs $1500 a year, to play on a Majors team costs $2500 a year. The parent(s) want their baseball player to play year round because he enjoys it and wants to get ready for HS baseball and has said he wants to play beyond that, but coming up with an extra 1K would be tough...doable, but tough.
Is there such a huge difference between Majors and high AAA baseball for the player?
|
| hshuler |
Posted - 02/17/2016 : 18:29:57
Each parent should do their best to find the right situation for their child. There is no cookie cutter path to success.
The high AAA route might work for one kid because that's where they belonged until 15U but it may not work for 10 other kids that also belonged at that level. The same could happen at the major level.
|
| turntwo |
Posted - 02/17/2016 : 17:17:42
quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
Sounds like bologna reasons to me.
Your son should play with and against competition that is on level for him where he is challenged, pushed and can grow. If the player is a major level player, that's where he should play. To the specific points:
1. True, but not just pitching depth, but who cares? Why should this be a reason to or not to play on a major team
2. Reps will be based on size or roster and ability of player. If the question is "should my AA or AAA son be a bench/role player on a major team before 13u, then the answer is no. But that goes back to my original comment that he should be playing with talent on his level.
3. Not necessarily true, however, there are podunk tournaments in areas that are geared to the rec+ travel level team. If your son is a stud, he will not be challenged playing there. Most tournaments around metro Atlanta are in the same general price range. And if you really want to look at it, consider a roster of 12 players in a $400 tournament vs a $650 tournament. $33/player or $54/player. Seriously????
4. By using this argument, you should invest no more than rec level in a kid until he's past puberty. Yes, sounds just as stupid if you say it out loud.
5. Don't believe there's any contractual obligation at 9 to sign and remain committed to a coach until 17, so again, irrelevant.
The points raised by this person don't hold any credible weight to the question IMHO
Hammer meets nail head. |
| bfriendly |
Posted - 02/17/2016 : 16:24:26
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
This is the advice that has stuck with me for a few years now, the person I spoke to made some credible remarks (at least to me):
1. The biggest difference in high AAA and Majors is pitching depth.
2. The Major talent level kid on a high AAA team will get more game reps than he likely will on a Major team.
3. Major teams play in Major tourneys that cost more than an average tourney. Therefore their team costs are increased drastically.
4. Until the player hits the big field and puberty no one knows what they are capable of. The 15u team doesn't care if the kid was on the most elite 8u team.
5. The coach for the number one 9u Georgia team will not be that teams coach every year until 17u. Every year every kid has to tryout again, likely with a new coach, just because you are on the 9u team doesn't mean you will make the 10u team.
Thoughts?
I like the idea of playing against the absolute best competition they can.........I Never let my kid beat me at ANYTHING. But he beat me at Chess AND Checkers the other day-first for both and I am still bitter sweet about it ....he beat his mom like 8 times though
Differences from AA/AAA to Major "should be everything" from Pitching depth to hitters, but to DEFENSE too! A stand up triple in AA/AAA may only get you a sliding into 2nd double at the major level as the outfield should be much stronger as well.
At least thats what I'd expect, but I have seen very few Major games |
| DecaturDad |
Posted - 02/17/2016 : 16:04:09
I was always told to find a team where you are not the top 10% of the talent or the bottom 30%. That gets you playing time, but still challenges you. AA,AAA or majors does not matter. And, more importantly. Find a team where they have fun. |
| ohand2 |
Posted - 02/17/2016 : 15:25:48
When my son was 13 he was 5'9", a little over weight and slow, he is now 16, 6'4", 180lbs and fast, and a starting pitcher for a high end 17u team in the Atlanta area. Coach once told me that a college scout doesn't give a $%#@ about what your kid does when he 12 or 13. Don't get hung up on AAA/Major, wins/losses, just get better. Find a coach who truly wants to develop players and work hard. |
| BamaDad |
Posted - 02/17/2016 : 14:50:49
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
This is the advice that has stuck with me for a few years now, the person I spoke to made some credible remarks (at least to me):
1. The biggest difference in high AAA and Majors is pitching depth.
2. The Major talent level kid on a high AAA team will get more game reps than he likely will on a Major team.
3. Major teams play in Major tourneys that cost more than an average tourney. Therefore their team costs are increased drastically.
4. Until the player hits the big field and puberty no one knows what they are capable of. The 15u team doesn't care if the kid was on the most elite 8u team.
5. The coach for the number one 9u Georgia team will not be that teams coach every year until 17u. Every year every kid has to tryout again, likely with a new coach, just because you are on the 9u team doesn't mean you will make the 10u team.
Thoughts?
It all depends on the individual player. You can't lump all Major players together because some are better than others. Addressing each point:
1.Pitching depth and more good hitters are the biggest differences.
2. Truly depends on the individual kid and how many players are on his Major team. Unless he is elite even for the Major level, a team with too many players could cut PT. Sure you can be the big dog on a AAA level team. However, will that push the kid to be his absolute best if he can just walk on the practice or game diamond and already know he is the best?
3. Captain Obvious quote here.....
4. Depends on the kid. A truly elite kid who has excelled at the Major level will have no problem making a 15U team or any other level. You can typically tell early on who those special kids are.
5. See above answer |
| in_the_know |
Posted - 02/17/2016 : 14:10:51
Sounds like bologna reasons to me.
Your son should play with and against competition that is on level for him where he is challenged, pushed and can grow. If the player is a major level player, that's where he should play. To the specific points:
1. True, but not just pitching depth, but who cares? Why should this be a reason to or not to play on a major team
2. Reps will be based on size or roster and ability of player. If the question is "should my AA or AAA son be a bench/role player on a major team before 13u, then the answer is no. But that goes back to my original comment that he should be playing with talent on his level.
3. Not necessarily true, however, there are podunk tournaments in areas that are geared to the rec+ travel level team. If your son is a stud, he will not be challenged playing there. Most tournaments around metro Atlanta are in the same general price range. And if you really want to look at it, consider a roster of 12 players in a $400 tournament vs a $650 tournament. $33/player or $54/player. Seriously????
4. By using this argument, you should invest no more than rec level in a kid until he's past puberty. Yes, sounds just as stupid if you say it out loud.
5. Don't believe there's any contractual obligation at 9 to sign and remain committed to a coach until 17, so again, irrelevant.
The points raised by this person don't hold any credible weight to the question IMHO |
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