| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| balldad |
Posted - 05/25/2009 : 19:18:43
Our ball team went and played out of state this weekend. I noticed how we were treated by some of the umpires who were officiating the games. One umpire came off the field and looked at all the family members and some of the ball team and told us to go back to Georgia. This is the first I have seen any officating go to this extreme. Does this happen alot, or is this how they do things in TN? |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| michaelp |
Posted - 02/21/2010 : 19:57:20
The catcher had the ball waiting on the runner. A good hard slide between the legs in hopes of the fielder dropping the ball is an option I did leave out.
Jumping, hurdling, and leaping are all legal attempts to avoid a fielder as long as the fielder is lying on the ground. Diving over a fielder is illegal. 8-4 ART.2 |
| LeftyBat |
Posted - 02/21/2010 : 02:05:28
If my son jumps over the tag and gets the base and the ump throws him out, fine by me. He did it once last year in a play at home, and the ump did not throw him out. |
| Alter-Ego |
Posted - 02/20/2010 : 23:09:14
ijames,
If a player leaves his feet, in an effort to jump over a player trying to avoid a tag, particularly at 13U and above, it is supposed to be an automatic ejection. You cannot leave you feet to avoid a tag because spikes get considered a potential weapon and has liability implications.
If you had this happen, and the player was not ejected, count yourself lucky. |
| Jacked-up |
Posted - 02/20/2010 : 21:54:55
We live in a 3D world...How is that not avoiding a tag? I pity the ump to make that call. |
| ljames |
Posted - 02/20/2010 : 20:45:39
quote:
Originally posted by Jacked-up
quote:
Originally posted by michaelp
I had the plate for that game. If the catcher has the ball waiting on a runner the runner has two options give himself up or turn around. Your runner was out by a good bit if I do not call running out of the base line I would have been wrong. As I recall you won this game via run rule. You are correct I should not have said get a ruler. The call was correct just bad customer service on explaining the call.
Mr Ump. A runner has more options than you state when approaching a base and the fielder has the ball, not to give up or just turn around.
1. If fielder on knees, fake low and jump over the fielder (done it)
2. Hook slide
3. head first slide around fielder and reach back and touch base
4. Aggressive slide through fielders legs - hoping he drops the ball
I teach my son to never be a dead out - ever.
FYI...
A lot of travel ball associations have a rule stating that whenever a tag play is evident with a fielder or catcher that the runner must avoid contact. Jumping over the player is not considered seeking to avoid contact and in some cases the runner could be ejected.
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| Jacked-up |
Posted - 02/19/2010 : 17:01:57
quote:
Originally posted by michaelp
I had the plate for that game. If the catcher has the ball waiting on a runner the runner has two options give himself up or turn around. Your runner was out by a good bit if I do not call running out of the base line I would have been wrong. As I recall you won this game via run rule. You are correct I should not have said get a ruler. The call was correct just bad customer service on explaining the call.
Mr Ump. A runner has more options than you state when approaching a base and the fielder has the ball, not to give up or just turn around.
1. If fielder on knees, fake low and jump over the fielder (done it)
2. Hook slide
3. head first slide around fielder and reach back and touch base
4. Aggressive slide through fielders legs - hoping he drops the ball
I teach my son to never be a dead out - ever.
|
| AA17Dad |
Posted - 02/19/2010 : 16:06:57
Did the Catcher have the ball when the runner went around him? |
| michaelp |
Posted - 02/19/2010 : 12:51:25
I had the plate for that game. If the catcher has the ball waiting on a runner the runner has two options give himself up or turn around. Your runner was out by a good bit if I do not call running out of the base line I would have been wrong. As I recall you won this game via run rule. You are correct I should not have said get a ruler. The call was correct just bad customer service on explaining the call. |
| michaelp |
Posted - 02/19/2010 : 12:47:01
quote:
Originally posted by Storm Baseball
Had a situation at the Mazzone tournament this weekend where our runner heading home went around the catcher because he was 4-6 feet up the line. The umpire called him out for going out of the basepath to avoid contact. When I challenged, he said that he was more than three feet out of the path and "if I didn't believe him, to go get a ruler". ????? Never fails...if i tell him how i really feel, he will umpire the rest of our games. If I don't say anything, I will never see him again!! 
It is amazing how some of these umpires have what I call the "God Syndrome". They have to make a spectacle of themselves and be the center of attention.
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| triple7 |
Posted - 06/02/2009 : 22:04:44
Umpires in georgia....
I really give you all a high five...I couldn't do what you do on a weekend. I did see something this past weekend in the USTBA state. Some very bad calls by the umpires their. One umpire even took he's mask, hat, and shirt off and started telling the parents to come do the job if they can do it beter. When you are getting pitched at and the batter swings and the umpire still calls it a Ball. I guess what some of these parents are saying their is 2 of you ask for help if you need it... I think some of the championship games need to have at least 3 at the age of 12u and UP... |
| tater77bug |
Posted - 06/02/2009 : 16:44:41
Again you are right on....I see a ton of travel coaches that just have no idea what the rules are...the "balk" is the king of confusion for many coaches...as a coach it is my job to prepare my team...as an umpire it is your job to get the call right...again where I get frustrated on my side is the umpire that is not prepared...but I guess you can't stand the coach that is a know it all...LOL...so the world turns...good thread Blue |
| Shut Out |
Posted - 06/02/2009 : 16:09:29
Overall most of the umpires in GA just like the level of play is fantastic. Unfortunately, it is just like when you have one player that keeps making errors the ball always finds him. The same goes for umps as it seems it is the same umps time and time again. You know the ones; the umps that seem to have issues with rules or get a little slow on being in the right place to make a call or frankly make calls on a reaction rather than taking a second to absorb what he just saw then make the right call. |
| GA Umpire |
Posted - 06/02/2009 : 12:14:06
Tater,
I run into alot of coaches that do not know the rules, which is a huge problem. I don't expect the parents to know all the rules, but if the coach does not know, how can they effectively coach.
Training may not improve what we call juddgement calls. (i.e. balls, strikes, interference, obstruction, tag outs etc) Judgement calls get a lot of oowws and aahhs from the crowd. I told a parent who came up after the game, in a very nice manner, that she can only see up and down pitches, you cannot see in and out. You cannot see if the catcher is set up outside or inside. just because the pitcher hits the glove, it does not always make it a strike.
Again is funny how the losing team, sometimes, wants to talk about how bad the ump's were. My son plays 14U travel ball, all of thier losses came down to walks and errors! With judgement calls some go your way and some do not!
Sorry to get off topic, I know we started with remarks made by Umps to some parents, for that I apologize for all umps and hope you never run into that again.
quote:
Originally posted by tater77bug
Blue you are right on...you should be invisible...it is too bad that so many now want to be seen...and it is a thankless job...but there is no excuss for an umpire being unprepared...there are so many venues for training that's it not funny...however there are umpires that we see that just aren't prepared and that is different than inexperinced....and just like there are poor coaches and weaker players there is going to be poor umpires...it's hard to watch someone that doesn't know the rules....and they are getting paid for it...
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| Alter-Ego |
Posted - 06/01/2009 : 14:51:58
I think having the parents get in the batting cages and take some cuts, while the kids critique them would also be a good idea. Let them see how hard it is to do what they are hounding the kids about doing. |
| tater77bug |
Posted - 06/01/2009 : 12:45:08
Blue you are right on...you should be invisible...it is too bad that so many now want to be seen...and it is a thankless job...but there is no excuss for an umpire being unprepared...there are so many venues for training that's it not funny...however there are umpires that we see that just aren't prepared and that is different than inexperinced....and just like there are poor coaches and weaker players there is going to be poor umpires...it's hard to watch someone that doesn't know the rules....and they are getting paid for it... |
| GA Umpire |
Posted - 06/01/2009 : 10:52:02
Bmoser,
That is a great idea to have the coaches and assistant coaches call a game prior to the season. We should also ask some parents get out there, I would glady lend them my equipment for a game.
I also think your B grade of umpires is right on point. I just hope the bad ones are getting better each game and not getting worse!
I was just commenting on how two people, at the same game, saw two different outcomes on 1 play!
I would never say anything to the parents like what was said in the earlier post. My job is to be invisible, when the game is over, I don't want you to even remember I was there!
quote:
Originally posted by bmoser
When umps do well, we don't hear much about it. But when they do bad, we tell everyone you know who will listen (this includes me!).
It all gives the perspective that the umps collectively really stink.
In my opinion, about 8 in 10 are adequate to very good. 1 in 10 has real difficulty with the strike zone, and 1 in 10 is a homer, and/or bully.
Overall grade B.
If I ran a league, I'd require all Head and Assistant Coaches to call 1 scrimmage game before the season begins just to ad some perspective.
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| Tball |
Posted - 05/30/2009 : 17:48:43
Bmoser, well said!
We all need to remember this is 10u baseball, not the world series. We are better off having these umpires than many of us out there. It is not too often one call decides the game!! I do have a problem with a coach using foul language towards an umpire in front of 10yr olds when in the end that run would not have won the game. Guys we need to teach respect, teamwork, and sportsmanship weather we win or lose. Just my opinion.... what say you! |
| bmoser |
Posted - 05/30/2009 : 07:42:32
When umps do well, we don't hear much about it. But when they do bad, we tell everyone you know who will listen (this includes me!).
It all gives the perspective that the umps collectively really stink.
In my opinion, about 8 in 10 are adequate to very good. 1 in 10 has real difficulty with the strike zone, and 1 in 10 is a homer, and/or bully.
Overall grade B.
If I ran a league, I'd require all Head and Assistant Coaches to call 1 scrimmage game before the season begins just to ad some perspective.
|
| balldad |
Posted - 05/29/2009 : 15:12:55
GA Umpire have you ever went to a group of people and told them to go back were they came from? That was the point to this discusion. We all agree you guys can not get it right everytime. I have seen alot of good umpires in my time and we are not trying to take away from them. Just the one who come out there with something to prove like they were picked on in school and now for some dumb reason thay want to take it out on the kids not the one who was originally was doing the picking. |
| lifeguard |
Posted - 05/29/2009 : 15:08:46
GA Umpire
I believe the subject got a little off topic. As an umpire, I already know when I wake up each morning that every close call, whether at a base or a pitch thats just outside the black, is going to be wrong 50% of the time. You are correct in that usually an umpire is NOT the reason the game was won or lost, usually. Even in this thread, the primary purpose was the statements by the umpires after the game, while walking past the losing team, not so much about the questionable calls. The umpires add the human element, which I believe at this age, is a tremendous example of how life can be. Even later in life, one can do all he can do while working in corporate America, and still, the person in charge can get it wrong and you're "out". An umpire getting it wrong is a human error, a mistake. As Ga Ump said, we're all trying to get it right. Although I'm not in the habit of "socializing" with one team or another, I do want to be approachable, because this is still a kids game, who are watching everything that happen, both negatively and positively. And like anything else, there is an ugly side. But then, I see the glass half full.
I call from age 10 (can't get down to the 8's zone anymore:-) ) to JUCO, with the exception of 12 & 13's because I also coach. And even there I'm only right 50% as the other 50% is up to the kid. |
| GA Umpire |
Posted - 05/29/2009 : 13:57:33
This is a normal day in the life of an umpire, 2 people at same game, see 2 different things!
Imagine if we polled 10 or 20 people!
Play ball, rarely does an umpire make a call that decides the game for one team or another. Coaches, Parents, and Players, seem to forget about the errors and walks, which really caused the loss!
Most of us are out there trying to get it right everytime! If you can do better, sign up we can always use more Umps!
quote:
Originally posted by Sox
I think you're trying to blame the umpires, I or no one else saw a play that was miss by 3 steps, I think you're reaching.quote:
Originally posted by Stixxbaseball
I am talking about what should have been the first out of the inning when the ground ball was hit to our first baseman and he tagged first 3 steps ahead of the runner. To the best of my knowledge, that is a missed force out which extended the inning.quote:
Originally posted by Sox
This was not a force out, First base was open! quote:
Originally posted by Stixxbaseball
We were pretty much given the same message by the umpires at the TC tournament a couple of weeks ago against Sandtown. I know umpires are half wrong as soon as they walk on the field and understand you are going to get some calls and lose some but their is no excuse when a runner is out by three steps on a force call but is called safe. Our opponents third base coach even laughed at the call.
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| Sox |
Posted - 05/28/2009 : 08:22:12
I think you're trying to blame the umpires, I or no one else saw a play that was miss by 3 steps, I think you're reaching.quote:
Originally posted by Stixxbaseball
I am talking about what should have been the first out of the inning when the ground ball was hit to our first baseman and he tagged first 3 steps ahead of the runner. To the best of my knowledge, that is a missed force out which extended the inning.quote:
Originally posted by Sox
This was not a force out, First base was open! quote:
Originally posted by Stixxbaseball
We were pretty much given the same message by the umpires at the TC tournament a couple of weeks ago against Sandtown. I know umpires are half wrong as soon as they walk on the field and understand you are going to get some calls and lose some but their is no excuse when a runner is out by three steps on a force call but is called safe. Our opponents third base coach even laughed at the call.
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| Stixxbaseball |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 18:46:07
I am talking about what should have been the first out of the inning when the ground ball was hit to our first baseman and he tagged first 3 steps ahead of the runner. To the best of my knowledge, that is a missed force out which extended the inning.quote:
Originally posted by Sox
This was not a force out, First base was open! quote:
Originally posted by Stixxbaseball
We were pretty much given the same message by the umpires at the TC tournament a couple of weeks ago against Sandtown. I know umpires are half wrong as soon as they walk on the field and understand you are going to get some calls and lose some but their is no excuse when a runner is out by three steps on a force call but is called safe. Our opponents third base coach even laughed at the call.
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| Titan1 |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 12:45:44
Same tournament this weekend had a umpire who refused to call a balk on the other team. After talking to their pitchers for about the third time. I finally called time to ask him if he was going to be calling balks. He said" I am not going to call balks on these young kids. He told me I was taking the game to seriously and that he hoped I didn't give them anymore trouble". BTW, that was the first time I had said anything since the meeting at the plate. About an inning later I moved my starting pitcher to second base to start an inning.He had one of those necklaces on that alot of the kids are wearing now days. Umpire made him take it off to pitch which I was fine with but when I told him he was going to second base he put it back on.Well the umpire came over to him and told him to take it back off and if he put it on again in this game or any other game that the umpire called he was going to eject him. |
| Dr. Old School |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 10:05:30
A couple of key points:
Umpires should:
*Have thick skin
*Try not to get to the field of play until they are ready for the game to start (keeps the socializing down)
*Manage the game and not let either team's coach influence their calls.
*Not play to the crowd or attempt to be part of the game.
The best umpire is the one that goes about making his calls and is almost transparent to the game. Their calls or stike zone may not be perfect, but they should be consistent. You can work around consistency, even if that is a strike zone a foot inside and out.
Parents should:
Enjoy the game and leave the coaching and addressing the umpire to the coaches.
I have seen so many times where the fans stayed on an umpire and ended up hurting their team because they could no longer get a borderline call. (Not implying that any scenario's above did this.) They want to blame the umpire but they were as much to blame. It's not a good example to set to the kids. I have even seen some kids try to argue with an ump, which should NEVER be tolerated. Many times they get that from seeing the fans addressing the umpire.
I see a lot of umpires working hard and trying to make the right calls. I have seen some others that just make you shake your head. I have seen bad calls that were not on purpose, and I have seen some others that were due to not knowing the rules. Some plays are hard to get in position for with only 2 umpires on the field. Particularly when you get multiple runners on base. Tagging up on a fly ball and HR's near the foul pole seem to be the hardest.
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