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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| gasbag |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 08:21:55
OK sports fans...in todays golden age of steroids, do you think the records that are being set from "enhanced" athletes ( the ones caught with their hands in the steroid jar ! ) should go into the record books ? |
| 7 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Rocky |
Posted - 05/17/2009 : 08:49:33
All I know if I dont trust anyone, from Clemons to Glavine, guys that put on weight are more suspicious, but guys that went up in velocity as they got older, Guys who admitted it you would have never thought might. My next door neighbor takes HGH and testosterone, he is 45 years old. Can cut his grass in half the time and looks great at the pool-this is suppose to be funny. I say 90% or more probably took HGH or Steroids or some other illegal drugs, people that say they dont work are crazy, I just hope they get the tests in place so most of our kids can play on an equal playing field in hs, and college if that happens. |
| ronicard |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 08:13:20
Man, all I can say is there are certainly some better wordsmiths on this board than I. Way to go guys, you make reading this board a pleasure for any fan of baseball! |
| bambino_dad |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 18:48:47
They gave the fans what they wanted: offense and blazing fastball pitchers. Remember "Chicks dig the long ball?". The best book on the subject is "Juicing the Game" by Howard Bryant. He documents:
- an incredibly powerful players union that killed any chance of a serious drug policy. Marvin Miller and Donald Fehr intimdated ownership and Bud Selig.
- smaller ballparks and smaller foul play areas which drove up pitch counts and offensive output. Pop fouls normally caught for outs are now in the stands, thus extending ABs to hitters and driving up pitch counts.
- QuestTech which forced umps to squeeze the strike zone by killing "on the black" strikes and forcing pitchers to "tee up" pitches over the fat part of the plate - even made Curt Schilling take a bat to one of them in disgust. Pitchers juiced in an attempt to overpower hitters with velocity. (Which incidentally makes the Braves' pitching run in the juiced 90s even more phenomenal.)
- Revenues, revenues, revenues. The bottom line is the bottom line. HRs put fannies in seats, even on losing teams. Attendance skyrocketed from '94 on.
Of course MLB knew what it was into, but it became a Frankenstein that could no longer be controlled. Punch and Judy hitters were putting up unheard of numbers and records were falling like flies.
Brady Anderson hit 50 hrs from the leadoff spot. Old pros like Bench, Jackson, and Morgan were resentful watching salaries skyrocket from utility players and could no longer hold their peace. A culture of anything goes was the norm - until that bottle of Andro 6 was spotted in McGwire's locker - and Jose Canseco began squealing to sell books.
Now look at the sport and us. We're all shocked - shocked - at the numbers of players on the juice. Somehow deep down I think we all knew. It'll be a thicket sorting out juiced stats from real output potential and I'm not sure baseball wants to do it. You can't touch Bonds's numbers without touching Clemens's; you can't McGwire's or Sosa's without touching some of the juiced pitchers who pitched to 'em (Gagne). My son's golden boy was - go figure - Manny Ramirez.
I don't know what to say to him in terms of morality and ethics 'cause it may very well turn out 80% of the ballplayers from 1994 to 2007 were users of varying degrees.
I'd love to see a corrective formula but nothing's been seriously proposed. The game has wounded itself and we're all just compartmentalizing these days. 
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| tater77bug |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 15:45:07
I tend to agree...as much as I hate it...it seems that many have taken the drugs and there are many who have taken them that will never be exposed....we like to think that our favorite player didn't do drugs....but so many of these drugs seem to help with recovery as much or more than making them stronger...so who's to say one of our beloved ATL Braves pitcher didn't take something to help them rebound...so I say let the records stand and as long as folks don't forget that this was the "steriod era" then it is what it is..... |
| highcheese |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 15:43:48
Bagman, got to say the records stand. A human did it and it is a human record. There was a tremendous amount of other effort to achieve the records, being in the bigs for one, longevity of career, nutrition enhancements, speed and agility enhancements, weight training, physco traininng, equipment, bats that hit it farther but break, juiced balls?, shorter parks, better Chiropractic care, better injury recovery, better surgery in off season. The supplement so to speak is only a part of it and does not control the whole pie as people think. If the ways to get better were not afforded to all and only a select few chose to participate then i would say no the records do not stand and the robots do not keep the records. Every one had access to what ever everyone else was doing to get better stronger faster etc.. whether or not it was good or bad. (cold answer) I do not condone the use of the drugs and i am sure some of the guys will have the same opinion when there coconuts fall off. i am not sure if anyone has even made a strong case as to when things were legal, illegal, frowned upon, enforced, looked the other way, doctors approval, after the fact hating, policy this and policy that. If the baseball management cannot decide or get off there rears then everything in all the grey areas of the thousands of different opinions has to stand.
Here is my soap box - the game moved on for need to generate revenue, excitement, all that junk. The bodies of our warriors had to advance to meet the challenges through any means possible. the professional athletes today are the gladiators etc.. of the past, tossed into a ring for a brutal confrontation for the enjoyment of the "people". these guys were fed the best, trained the best, etc.. until they could no longer hack it, then tossed aside. is it any different today??? We say this - to be politically correct- then want this and demand this - and then when we get it say it is unfair how we got it - when it is exactlly what we wanted - but do not have the coconuts to say so and have to hide behind politically correct sayings or what is popular at the time to be accepted by society.
I say BOLOGNA - I was on the edge of my seat everytime Mcguire and Sammy came to the plate - I was pulling for 99 or 100 homers - 550 foot shots into neighboring parking lots! I loved it! watching the gladiators compete.
Today and i mean today or one set date in time - if the rules are not ambiguous I will say embrace them and enforce them to the T. If you cannot do that as a baseball organization then do not think you have the right to exclude anything.
One of the other things to think about is that some of these records were originally set with a guy who drank beer, ate hot dogs, had 7 cups of coffee, smoked a cig or two, used a tree trunk for a bat, and put on 100% wool uni's before a game. Got to respect the efforts of those finely tuned athletes.
Keep it real and make sure you take a little kid to a game or two. Gotta love it. |
| ronicard |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 15:37:42
LOL. Actually, I meant to say I've NEVER taken performance enhancing drugs. One little word left out can make a big difference, huh? |
| ronicard |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 12:45:03
I think so. If the pitchers (Roger Clemens, Andy Pettite, etc) are using steroids like the batters, then I suppose the batters aren't really gaining an advantage (except over the other "clean" batters).
If any record should be clouded, it's probably the homeruns, but I don't know that steroids helps the line-drive hitter who hits singles & doubles. But then again, I'm no doctor and I've taken performance-enhancing drugs, so I could be dead wrong. |
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