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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Strike 2 |
Posted - 04/17/2009 : 00:42:55
Drop the Gate Fee. Parents are already paying to play in your tournament via the entry fee. They are also paying at the concession stand. The "We charge a gate fee to keep the riff raff out" does not fly. The riff raff could care less about a baseball tournament. What say you? |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| USTBA08 |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 01:29:25
Georgia USTBA has charged the same gate fee for 4 years.
Our fees are as follows:
- Friday/Saturday Gate = $6 (if a team plays Friday & Saturday, their Friday gate pass is also valid on Saturday)
- Sunday Pass = $6 (Championship Day where all teams advance)
- Weekend Tournament Pass = $10 (Exception: Spring or Summer National/World Series. State Championships are $1 for daily & $2 more for weekend pass for a 4 game minimum)
- Under 14 FREE (we don't charge you to baby-sit your own children)
- Senior & Student Pass discounts of $1 a day or $2 off a weekend pass with a Student ID card or Seniors 65 years young.
Some facilities charge gate which Georgia USTBA receives none of. In this case, we are all at the mercy of the host facility. Some facilities even take a percentage of the gate income. Georgia USTBA has never benefited form any concession sales.
Even though we have seen rising cost over the last several years in umpire fees, award & baseball cost, facility usage charges, gas and many other items... our gate fee remains the same.
Georgia USTBA strives to provide Organized, Competitive, Unique Format Tournament Events while providing many Exciting Benefits like; Park Decorations including numerous flags, bunting and streamers which create an exciting atmosphere for the players, spectators and coaches - NFHS baseballs provided for ALL Games - Courteous, Dedicated, Helpful & Knowledgeable Staff - Extremely High Quality Awards... including Championship Rings - High Quality Officiating Crew... vast majority with NFHS certification - Pre Championship Ceremony - Post Championship Ceremony and many more benefits.
Why do we do all this?
Do we pay less for fields than other organzations? NO!
Do we pay less for umpires? NO!
Do we get baseballs for Free? NO!
Are our awards donated to us? NO!
Did we find all our park decorations in a back alley? NO!
Are our Pre & Post Ceremonies done for our benefit? NO!
Does our staff work for FREE? NO!
Do we hand players & coaches a box of awards and send them on their way? NO!
Then why do we do all we do? Mainly For The Players! But we also realize parents spend allot of money supporting their children in travel baseball and coaches spend countless volunteer hours coaching these young men and deserve to get something back for all their money & time. When time permits... we even provide fun activities and goodies for the siblings and give away many items including awards for participating. Wait till the day you participate in one of our events and a parents child boastly prances around the park with a medal around their neck. It makes it all worth the time, effort and money!
Maybe someone on this board could explain why there is so much complaining about what organizations DON'T DO, How much they charge and lack of consideration in scheduling and such... but continue to support and frequently play with them? I might be a little naive... but why not support the organizations that give and provide more Bang-For-The-Buck?
Anyway, All-In-All... "Baseball has been very good to me" and my family. I have tried to teach players, in my 22 years of coaching the game... "If you ever make something of yourself on or off the field... give back to the game". Luckily, I have coached many players which have done allot of good for youth baseball through their contribution of their time & money.
In No Way are USTBA, Georgia USTBA, myself and our staff perfect. We have our faults just like anyone else. However, we do Strive For Perfection... but realize Excellence Is The Best We Can accomplish.
Thank you for taking the time to read this reply. I hope I have shed some light on the subject... in our case anyway.
Sincerely,
Paul Jennings
National Director - USTBA
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| Trainbaseball |
Posted - 04/16/2010 : 16:59:15
I dont have a problem paying the gate fee but here in Alabama $7 per day $12 for a weekend is the norm. The issue I have is their no-refund policy on rainouts. Both seasons (summer and fall) last year were notorious for games being rained out. Why do parents have to shoulder the risk of paying for their familie(s) 2 day pass and then lose if Sunday games are cancelled? Team gate fees are even a worse idea as that money isnt refunded no matter if we just play one of the games in a 3 GG. |
| kingofthehill |
Posted - 03/31/2010 : 11:41:40
Funny you asked who junior is playing with. It appears that in Florida if you are a pretty good player. You don't play for one team. You play for them all. We are having a blast;)
quote:
Originally posted by gasbag
King - Your gonna need to watch that pale skin getting scorched in the southern sun ! Hope you brought lots of shorts and those Hawaiin shirts ! Maybe we can hook you up with Don Johnson and you two can do a remake of Miami Vice !!!!!
Welcome to the south brotha....you're going to love it ! BTW, who's junior playing for ? Fla. is a hotbed of baseball, with lots of great teams and plenty of talent.
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| gasbag |
Posted - 03/30/2010 : 15:07:24
King - Your gonna need to watch that pale skin getting scorched in the southern sun ! Hope you brought lots of shorts and those Hawaiin shirts ! Maybe we can hook you up with Don Johnson and you two can do a remake of Miami Vice !!!!!
Welcome to the south brotha....you're going to love it ! BTW, who's junior playing for ? Fla. is a hotbed of baseball, with lots of great teams and plenty of talent.
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| kingofthehill |
Posted - 03/30/2010 : 10:41:06
I like that idea. Went to TBIS two years in a row and pre bought tshirts and gate fees for the weekend and well got really wet. Dont think team got a refund. They do have a nice hotel there in Rockwood. It has a pool, just no water in it. Except from the rain. quote:
Originally posted by bmoser
I don't mind paying for anything I get, I just don't like paying for anything I DON'T get. If a tourney is rained out Sunday morning and no games are played, gates should be refunded for that day, or at the least a credit pass for a future event.
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| kingofthehill |
Posted - 03/30/2010 : 10:36:28
gasbag, I do charge the brides momma and daddy, they wear flowers and they arent free. And I am quite certain that I have been missed. Im living in Vero now.quote:
Originally posted by gasbag
King - Lest ye forget that the same Mom's & Dad's that have to fork over the ( +- ) $ 1,000 to $ 3,000 / year to have their kid play travel ball are the same ones having to pay the gate fee ? If it was just the gate fees alone, I'd gladly pay them and then some....but getting jacked on top of it is "salt in the wounds"...especially in this economy !
It would kinda be like you charging the bride ( hypothetical here so bear with me ! ), $ 6,000 for the flowers for her wedding....then her parents show up for the wedding and King is at the doors to the church, charging admission to her parents to watch their baby girl get married !
Go ahead and admit it King....you missed me didn't ya ?
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| bmoser |
Posted - 03/30/2010 : 09:54:34
I don't mind paying for anything I get, I just don't like paying for anything I DON'T get. If a tourney is rained out Sunday morning and no games are played, gates should be refunded for that day, or at the least a credit pass for a future event.
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| ingasven |
Posted - 03/30/2010 : 08:57:30
I like the fact that there are varying opinions on this topic and really have nothing to add that hasn't already been said. Hosting tournaments is, for some, their livelihood so I'll pass on advice given to me by the first man I ever worked for:
"Always remember, a pig gets fed, but a hog gets slaughtered." |
| oldschooldad |
Posted - 03/29/2010 : 23:30:17
quote:
Originally posted by Tball
They are in this to turn a profit just like any other buisness. I will pay whatever the gate fee is to see my son play the game he loves!!! I sure don't hear anyone complaining about paying $250 for a bat or the latest bat-bag or the $50 pullovers that all the teams have that they don't wear past April only to need a bigger size for next year. This is directed towards no post in general just my opinion. If I did not enjoy this level of ball, we would play rec ball... with no gate fees!
I agree with some for your comments but not all. Gate fees are a neccessary part of travel ball. We all hate to pay them but if our team has an event , we are sure glad to charge em. IMO the difference is the amount and if team is looking to raise money or if a business is looking to make a profit.
Travel ball is expensive, no question. But teams do have options as to how much it costs. The team budget is set at the beginning of the year. Most teams seem to have the parents involved in the overall cost by discussing things like type and # of uniforms, equipment bags to buy, etc. I believe more teams and parents will choice to enter tournaments with no gate fees or the option to pay for the gate with the entrance fee. I'm pretty tired of writing a check to the team at the start of the season and then be 'nickeled and dimed" with gate fees through the year. Folks, myself included, are going to remember the events that don't charge or have a reasonable fee. We play 20 bucks a day for the family to watch Jr. play and then spend another $20-30 on the concessions because coolers aren't allowed. In the past, these gate fees were the exception but today they are the rule.
Next year more discuss with be focused on the gate fee/ cooler issue in picking what events to attend. |
| Tball |
Posted - 03/29/2010 : 20:35:12
They are in this to turn a profit just like any other buisness. I will pay whatever the gate fee is to see my son play the game he loves!!! I sure don't hear anyone complaining about paying $250 for a bat or the latest bat-bag or the $50 pullovers that all the teams have that they don't wear past April only to need a bigger size for next year. This is directed towards no post in general just my opinion. If I did not enjoy this level of ball, we would play rec ball... with no gate fees! |
| bmoser |
Posted - 03/29/2010 : 18:40:35
Sunday morning skies were threatening in ATL's Southern burbs, so I asked as I pulled up to the pay window "if its rained out and we dont play any ball, do I get the $5 back?" The answer was "no". I let my son out right there at the gate, and watched him walk down the road until I saw him meet up with his teammates.
I wanted to wait it out for an hour to make sure the game would be played before I paid the non-refundable $5. Not the cash, just the principal. I returned an hour later, no rain, paid and watched my son play. I paid with mostly small denomination coins! Got the dirty look, and just smiled back.
Tourney promoters...this is a terrible policy. The answer should have been, yes, if no ball is played, we'll refund everybody who paid.
Its getting way out of hand IMHO. |
| gasbag |
Posted - 03/29/2010 : 16:24:25
King - Lest ye forget that the same Mom's & Dad's that have to fork over the ( +- ) $ 1,000 to $ 3,000 / year to have their kid play travel ball are the same ones having to pay the gate fee ? If it was just the gate fees alone, I'd gladly pay them and then some....but getting jacked on top of it is "salt in the wounds"...especially in this economy !
It would kinda be like you charging the bride ( hypothetical here so bear with me ! ), $ 6,000 for the flowers for her wedding....then her parents show up for the wedding and King is at the doors to the church, charging admission to her parents to watch their baby girl get married !
Go ahead and admit it King....you missed me didn't ya ? |
| baseballpapa |
Posted - 03/29/2010 : 15:41:56
The King is Back. Long live the king. |
| kingofthehill |
Posted - 03/29/2010 : 12:45:35
It's a business. Their job is to serve a quality product and make money. I sell flowers. And I will try to take every dollar I can because I work hard, I offer a above average product and service. I expect to make money. My clients know they could buy flowers cheaper somewhere else. But I have the best game in town. My advice is to stay home if you don't want to pay gate fees. These folks do this for a living in some cases and some are trying to make money for their team. It promopts travel ball. So I like anything that helps promote the game even if someone is making money off it. It's America, the only problem I hear or see is people complaining about 5 buck gate fees when they will spend 80 bucks at the movies for the family. 20 tourneys X $5 = $100 x 4 family members = $400 bucks per year...and that is way to the high side on average because most teams don't play 20 tourneys or take 4 paying family members. |
| mrbama31 |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 19:28:43
Bully,
I am not sure if you are directing your comments to me or not...but I have not complained at all...I simply did the math and find it "INTERESTING" as to how much money is made at a tournament such as this. I have no post that suggest they charged too much on entry fees/gate fees....NO COMPLAINTS..just enjoy crunching numbers. And I find it amazing at the amount of money that can be made running a youth baseball tournament.
quote:
Originally posted by Bully
It really does not matter how much they make.....the bottom line is you have the choice to play in the tournament or not!!!!
They must be doing something right, they had a lot of teams playing! You made a decision to play, stop complaining abouth how much money they made.
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| LeftyBat |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 15:31:07
quote:
Originally posted by Bully
It really does not matter how much they make.....the bottom line is you have the choice to play in the tournament or not!!!!
They must be doing something right, they had a lot of teams playing! You made a decision to play, stop complaining abouth how much money they made.
I'm not complaining. (so maybe you are not directing the comment to me...) I actually said I thought them making 20-25 bucks off my kid, in return for the fun that was provided was a great value... |
| Alter-Ego |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 15:15:48
This is just like eating out at a resturant. We all know we can get the stuff and cook it a lot cheaper at home. But we go out to eat because we don't want to go through all the fuss of doing it ourselves, because the cook may do a better job with it, and/or because we like the environment.
When is the last time you paid $12.99 per pound for steak in the grocery store? I hope never. So we know the resturant is making $7-9 mark-up on that meal. They may have overhead easily noticed like a building, employees, inventory, etc. What we don't see is the insurance, taxes, etc that also come out of the profits. In the end, we know they make good money but still go there to eat. If we feel like the cost is higher than the benefits derived, we don't go. We don't clamor for them to show us their balance sheets and tell us how much money they are making.
My longwinded point is: Tournaments are not "Volunteer, non-revenue generating events". They offer a product that is in some level of demand. High demand if it is perceived as a good value. Not so much of demand if the value is low.
Each of us have to determine, just like with going out to eat, if we get the value out of these tournaments.
Just as the with resturants, tournaments don't owe you a detailed explanation of their revenue and expense reports. They owe you a good value for the money you are spending. Hopefully each of you get that with each tournament you play in. Some may be a lot better value than others, but hopefully all are more valuable than what you pay for them.
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| Bully |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 14:03:41
It really does not matter how much they make.....the bottom line is you have the choice to play in the tournament or not!!!!
They must be doing something right, they had a lot of teams playing! You made a decision to play, stop complaining abouth how much money they made. |
| LeftyBat |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 12:00:47
quote:
Originally posted by mrbama31
I was given an estimate from a very reliable source that the parks were rented in the neighborhood of $4000.00 per park for the weekend... which 14 parks at $4000.00 = $56,000 cost on field cost. That covers maintenance and everything for the weekend.
This leaves a profit of $122,000 plus a profit of $10-$15 per T shirt sold.
Which the profit form the T shirts probably covered most of the cost they paid people to man the gates, the T shirt stands and any other hourly people they had working for them.
Once again though it is a GREAT TOURNAMENT...So don't miss understand ME...I think it is great that we as a State has one of the biggest tournaments played in the entire country right here in our back yards. And its OK that they make a lot of money on this tournament because they have put a lot of work into it. BUT DON'T KID yourselves into thinking they did not make $100,000.00 + on this tournament.
Sweet deal for them. But really, they made 100k on 420 teams, so thats 250.00 or so profit per team, divided by an average of 12 boys per time, about 21.00 bucks profit a kid? Thats a lot of fun for the money for my son...
So how much of the 100K does the guys who ran the tourney get and how much does USSSA get? How many guys do they have to divide up this 100k profit? is this a full time job for them?
And is this a "franchise" Who decided who gets to host a Super NIT and how much they get to charge and how much they get to keep and do they have to pay for the right to host it?
Your point is well taken. Not sure if someone should get rich off of running 3-4 tourneys a year and I doubt they are. Suspect it was a TON of work that took several people months of work to coordinate and pull off...
But it really should not be such a mystery. The mystery is what makes us think it might smell funny...
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| mrbama31 |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 10:16:50
I was given an estimate from a very reliable source that the parks were rented in the neighborhood of $4000.00 per park for the weekend... which 14 parks at $4000.00 = $56,000 cost on field cost. That covers maintenance and everything for the weekend.
This leaves a profit of $122,000 plus a profit of $10-$15 per T shirt sold.
Which the profit form the T shirts probably covered most of the cost they paid people to man the gates, the T shirt stands and any other hourly people they had working for them.
Once again though it is a GREAT TOURNAMENT...So don't miss understand ME...I think it is great that we as a State has one of the biggest tournaments played in the entire country right here in our back yards. And its OK that they make a lot of money on this tournament because they have put a lot of work into it. BUT DON'T KID yourselves into thinking they did not make $100,000.00 + on this tournament.
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| mrbama31 |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 09:52:37
quote:
Originally posted by TNBaseball
Whether it's right or wrong, the majors teams were also playing for a bid to the Elite World Series.......
Have you been to Disney for the Elite 32...I have been twice and the gate fee for that is about $50.00 per person for the tourney. And you better not lose that pass or you will be buying a new one.
BESIDES THAT....there were only 5 bids to Disney given out.
OH YEA I didnt even count the TSHIRTS they sold that cost them $5 each....and sold them for $15.00- $20.00 each....
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| mrbama31 |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 09:36:21
Lefty,
Your point is noted in regard to teams not playing Sat or Sun...So I went back to the schedules to Check.. here is what I found...
128 teams DID NOT play FRI. This reduced my total by $12,800.00
80 teams did not play Sunday...this oddly reduced my total by the same
$12,800.00. Reducing my gate estimate overall to $102,400.00
Now leaving $174,800.00 after paying Umpires.
But note I made a very conservative guess on fans (20 per team) and I am assuming none of the teams not scheduled to play Fri or Sun came to watch the other teams play those days.
If I were a betting man the gate was still around $120,000.00
And the gate normally provides the profit to the tourney...with the entry fee covering your cost to have the tourney.
Still a BUTT LOAD...ANYWAY YOU SHAKE IT OUT.
quote:
Originally posted by LeftyBat
quote:
Originally posted by mrbama31
Lefty,
You not looking at the whole picture....There were 2 teams involved in your games therefor there was 2 $395 entry fees covering that $150.00 worth of umpires.
Let me show u...
320 teams x avg $395.00 entry fee = $126,400
320 teams x 20 fans per team X 3 days of gate fees = $128,000
Avg games played per team 4.5 ...there was aproxx... 720 games played x $70 for umps = $50.400
They made about $254,400 on entry fees and gate.
Paid about $50,400 in umps
That leaves approx $200,400 left over b4 field rentals.....
They made a BUTT LOAD....thats for sure..
No I got that right... (the umpire thing...) I assumed each umpire gets 30.00 a game, time two umps, times five games, 150.00 per team.
Many teams did not have 3 days gate fees, they either did not play friday, did not play sat, or were eliminated before sunday.
So your gate fees are likely off by at least a third, maybe as much as 40-45 percent. And you what are the sanctioning fees, what are the field rentals and did the field rentals include the field crew labor.
But your point is well taken. Which is why I thought maybe its time for them to show their numbers or we say NO next year. If they are not willing to do it, its an obvious sign that maybe they are taking advantage. Who runs the Atlanta Super NIT anyway? How do the get awarded the "franchise" and what does it cost. How much do the tournament directors get and how much is siphoned off by USSSA.
If these things are transparent then they clearly smell funny. And who REALLY needs them anyway. Think those 20 12 Major teams are incapable of forming a league of their own and hosting their own tourneys? They should not take the participation for granted.
And if they really awarded the title to teams that led after pool play and told teams that made it all the way to the finals to go pound sand, then they should get and EARFULL. Particularly when it seems that they made sure the major teams finished their games and let the AAA and AA teams sit and wait. Seems to me I now understand why our team sat for at least an hour waiting for a grounds crew and diamond dry prior to our semi final on Sunday. This was a division that had the final game rained out on Sunday night in the second inning. A game that did not start until about 7-7:30 that could have started a full hour earlier if we had not just sat there. A champion could have been crowned on the field. But I suspect, the field crews were busy grooming the major fieldd somewhere so they could get those games in, OR they were sitting on the diamond dry, making sure they had enough for the fields that "counted" before they let them put it on our field.
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| TNBaseball |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 00:05:25
Whether it's right or wrong, the majors teams were also playing for a bid to the Elite World Series....... |
| LeftyBat |
Posted - 03/22/2010 : 20:43:08
quote:
Originally posted by mrbama31
Lefty,
You not looking at the whole picture....There were 2 teams involved in your games therefor there was 2 $395 entry fees covering that $150.00 worth of umpires.
Let me show u...
320 teams x avg $395.00 entry fee = $126,400
320 teams x 20 fans per team X 3 days of gate fees = $128,000
Avg games played per team 4.5 ...there was aproxx... 720 games played x $70 for umps = $50.400
They made about $254,400 on entry fees and gate.
Paid about $50,400 in umps
That leaves approx $200,400 left over b4 field rentals.....
They made a BUTT LOAD....thats for sure..
No I got that right... (the umpire thing...) I assumed each umpire gets 30.00 a game, time two umps, times five games, 150.00 per team.
Many teams did not have 3 days gate fees, they either did not play friday, did not play sat, or were eliminated before sunday.
So your gate fees are likely off by at least a third, maybe as much as 40-45 percent. And you what are the sanctioning fees, what are the field rentals and did the field rentals include the field crew labor.
But your point is well taken. Which is why I thought maybe its time for them to show their numbers or we say NO next year. If they are not willing to do it, its an obvious sign that maybe they are taking advantage. Who runs the Atlanta Super NIT anyway? How do the get awarded the "franchise" and what does it cost. How much do the tournament directors get and how much is siphoned off by USSSA.
If these things are transparent then they clearly smell funny. And who REALLY needs them anyway. Think those 20 12 Major teams are incapable of forming a league of their own and hosting their own tourneys? They should not take the participation for granted.
And if they really awarded the title to teams that led after pool play and told teams that made it all the way to the finals to go pound sand, then they should get and EARFULL. Particularly when it seems that they made sure the major teams finished their games and let the AAA and AA teams sit and wait. Seems to me I now understand why our team sat for at least an hour waiting for a grounds crew and diamond dry prior to our semi final on Sunday. This was a division that had the final game rained out on Sunday night in the second inning. A game that did not start until about 7-7:30 that could have started a full hour earlier if we had not just sat there. A champion could have been crowned on the field. But I suspect, the field crews were busy grooming the major fieldd somewhere so they could get those games in, OR they were sitting on the diamond dry, making sure they had enough for the fields that "counted" before they let them put it on our field.
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| baseballpapa |
Posted - 03/22/2010 : 17:02:55
mrbama31: Could you help Papa with his taxes. This number stuff gives me headaches. |
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