| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| rippit |
Posted - 07/24/2015 : 13:39:17
My son is coming down to the wire on having to make some decisions to narrow the choices down and I am trying to help but haven't the slightest idea about how academic money fits into the equation.
Let's take 3 options: D1, Ivy and D3. All are high academic, well respected schools with lots of money. Let's pretend they are all 60K tuition, room and board private or out of state schools.
After 25% athletic money from the D1 school, where does the other 45K come from? I know there is some sort of parent contribution required by each school and I know about Net Price Calculators.
Now for the Ivy and D3. No athletic money, but at what point and how is the topic of "academic" money broached? My son can't make a commitment without knowing the financial burden that will be placed on him. I also know Ivy has a "likely" letter rahter than an actual offer letter like a D1.
SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS THIS STUFF PLEASE HELP! |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| bballman |
Posted - 07/30/2015 : 09:59:12
I mentioned that in my post in_the_know.
Keep in mind, this only applies to the 65 D1 schools in the ACC, SEC, Big Ten, Big 12 & Pac-12. There are around 233 other D1 schools that this does not apply to. As well as all D2 schools, NAIA and JUCO.
I'm not clear whether these 65 schools HAVE to offer 4 year deals or if this just gives them the OPTION to offer 4 year deals. I've read a little on both sides. I'd check before you assume. |
| in_the_know |
Posted - 07/30/2015 : 00:04:45
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
quote:
Originally posted by rippit
Thanks. It kind of sounded like a double edged sword if they could.
quote:
Originally posted by NF1974
Rippit,
They cannot take the funds away if he did not make the team. They can take funds away if he does not maintain his grade average or he has some other Honor Code violation.
Depends on what money you are talking about.
Academic money, the above applies.
Athletic money, you get for the first year, pretty much regardless of whether you make the team or what your grades are. There may be some behavioral issues that can get it taken away, but it has to be pretty severe for that to happen. Now, whether or not you get that money the next year is entirely up to the coach's discretion. Unless you are in one of the few schools that offer a 4 year deal.
But in the power 5 conferences (as of this past January), they cannot reduce it (athletic money) or take it away for performance, so they are all multi year now in those conferences.
Obviously there are other ways to make life miserable for a player they want to rid themselves of and get them to leave, but barring that or behavior or grades, an athletic scholarship in the power 5 is now for the 4 (or 5) years.
Here is one of many stories about the change and vote.
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/17/cost-of-attendance-multi-year-scholarships-approved/ |
| bballman |
Posted - 07/29/2015 : 15:37:27
quote:
Originally posted by rippit
Thanks. It kind of sounded like a double edged sword if they could.
quote:
Originally posted by NF1974
Rippit,
They cannot take the funds away if he did not make the team. They can take funds away if he does not maintain his grade average or he has some other Honor Code violation.
Depends on what money you are talking about.
Academic money, the above applies.
Athletic money, you get for the first year, pretty much regardless of whether you make the team or what your grades are. There may be some behavioral issues that can get it taken away, but it has to be pretty severe for that to happen. Now, whether or not you get that money the next year is entirely up to the coach's discretion. Unless you are in one of the few schools that offer a 4 year deal. |
| jacjacatk |
Posted - 07/29/2015 : 15:17:35
quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
Coach Stricklin was giving my son a tour on a recent visit and he mentioned that UGA is actually being referred to as the "Ivy of the South" because of the difficulty of getting in these days.
Only by people who can't get into Vanderbilt.
I kid. |
| in_the_know |
Posted - 07/29/2015 : 14:13:05
Funny you say that. Coach Stricklin was giving my son a tour on a recent visit and he mentioned that UGA is actually being referred to as the "Ivy of the South" because of the difficulty of getting in these days.
quote:
Originally posted by rippit
LOL that's true! You can get into some Ivies with a 32.
quote:
Originally posted by jacjacatk
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
I've heard of kids with 3.8 GPAs not getting accepted to UGA. And they are not even a high academic school.
I considered it a safety school when I applied in the 80s, but UGA's middle 50% ACT score is 28-32 and the middle 50% of the Honors students is 32-34. That's easily on par with many high academic LACs.
|
| rippit |
Posted - 07/29/2015 : 13:10:18
Thanks. It kind of sounded like a double edged sword if they could.
quote:
Originally posted by NF1974
Rippit,
They cannot take the funds away if he did not make the team. They can take funds away if he does not maintain his grade average or he has some other Honor Code violation.
|
| NF1974 |
Posted - 07/29/2015 : 12:43:32
Hey, when i got into UGA in 1974 all you had to know how to spell was " keg". I know I am showing my age here. When my kids ask me how I did in school, I tell them that i graduated in that part of the class that made the top part possible. Everyone has to play there part. |
| rippit |
Posted - 07/29/2015 : 11:59:33
LOL that's true! You can get into some Ivies with a 32.
quote:
Originally posted by jacjacatk
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
I've heard of kids with 3.8 GPAs not getting accepted to UGA. And they are not even a high academic school.
I considered it a safety school when I applied in the 80s, but UGA's middle 50% ACT score is 28-32 and the middle 50% of the Honors students is 32-34. That's easily on par with many high academic LACs.
|
| bballman |
Posted - 07/28/2015 : 22:26:36
quote:
Originally posted by jacjacatk
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
I've heard of kids with 3.8 GPAs not getting accepted to UGA. And they are not even a high academic school.
I considered it a safety school when I applied in the 80s, but UGA's middle 50% ACT score is 28-32 and the middle 50% of the Honors students is 32-34. That's easily on par with many high academic LACs.
Things have changed there for sure... |
| jacjacatk |
Posted - 07/28/2015 : 20:20:55
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
I've heard of kids with 3.8 GPAs not getting accepted to UGA. And they are not even a high academic school.
I considered it a safety school when I applied in the 80s, but UGA's middle 50% ACT score is 28-32 and the middle 50% of the Honors students is 32-34. That's easily on par with many high academic LACs. |
| NF1974 |
Posted - 07/28/2015 : 16:03:08
Rippit,
They cannot take the funds away if he did not make the team. They can take funds away if he does not maintain his grade average or he has some other Honor Code violation. |
| bballman |
Posted - 07/28/2015 : 09:51:09
Yes, it can get confusing. I don't know everything about the NCAA, but I believe that things have more to do with the curriculum a school offers and whether they WANT to be D1 or something else. I know my son's D2 school could, if they wanted, petition to be a D1 school. They have around 9,000 students. At this time, they don't want to do that. I know until around 2005 or 2006 or so, Kennesaw State was in their conference and then decided to go D1. I have heard of some schools having some D1 athletic teams and D2 or D3 with other teams. I honestly don't know how that works.
Hopefully, you've gotten a little more insight into all this from this thread. I wish you the best of luck. Definitely let us know how things turn out. |
| rippit |
Posted - 07/28/2015 : 08:46:20
I've heard of non sporting kids with 3.8s not getting into UGA, but athletes?????? I guess that's the point I'm eventually rambling toward. You have kids with verbal commits to high academic schools, one or two get shot down which opens the door. And yes I understand if they really wanted him they'd be knocking, but in light of circumstances unwritten here that have factored in, I think it's possible that with a little bit of legwork (okay a LOT) that they will eventually realize he's on the planet and available.
At the end of the day, and I really hate that phrase but I'm going to use it anyway, I think two things: 1 - too many players tend to jump on the first opportunity presented without thinking it through so they can tweet that they are blessed (gag me) and 2 - everything happens for a reason which is awesome if you fight your way through it and learn. I have total faith that the best thing for him will happen in the end. :)
Now, that could be D1 high academic or D3 high academic either very close by or very far away. Seems that in all our searching D2 and high academic just don't really get mentioned in the same sentence. And it's confusing how some schools with small enrollments (2500) are D1 while others with larger enrollments (6000+) are D3. But then you have some who have certain sports that play D1 while others play D3 not to mention some who have one sport in one conference and all the others in another.
Hold on - I think my brain is about to explode!
And yes. Very WRONG OF HIS COACH. If only I could tell you the entire story, but the story is still being written and will eventually have a happy ending. And, we are not alone. |
| bballman |
Posted - 07/27/2015 : 21:03:30
In regard to the 200k, keep in mind from what I've heard, there are tiers. So, if you are close to the 200k, you may only get 10 or 20%. 20% of 60k is $12,000. So you may still be responsible for 48k. Better check a school's need based tier system before jumping for joy.
That's a bummer about the summer coach. My son's 17u coach would let kids take off for individual camps or visits whenever they needed. After all, that is the goal of a summer team at that age, isn't it? For their players to get into a college to play baseball? At least it should have been. That's just wrong of his coach if you ask me.
And for your last question, I really don't think a kid with a 2.5 to 3.0 GPA will get into a Wake, Duke or Carolina. High academic schools have high academic admissions standards. They are not easy to get into. I've heard of kids with 3.8 GPAs not getting accepted to UGA. And they are not even a high academic school.
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| rippit |
Posted - 07/27/2015 : 20:34:30
NF1974: thanks. That helps a bit.
But what if he hadn't made the team? Would they take everything away causing him to have to leave?? |
| rippit |
Posted - 07/27/2015 : 16:33:15
Earn less than $200K...CHECK! Lol.
Official visits and unofficial visits?? I know you can't have anything official until the first day of your senior year. When a school offers an "I hope we can find a time to get you up here" what should the response be? (other than SURE THING COACH!)
I feel like he's missing out by not being vocal enough with the schools he wants to go to. He's kind of waiting for them, but this summer he hasn't had time to do anything but attend all the "mandatory" tournaments and events his summer team demanded he go to or he'd be KICKED OFF the team. I'm not kidding... Other than the coach running around bad mouthing him if he actually had been kicked off it might have been a blessing in disguise.
That's why I asked the question about some of the D1 schools being "full". He made a bad decision about what team to play with this summer and now has some work to do to make it up. But I hear what you are saying about being an impact player or not.
I have another question about schools with very high academic standards. How does a kid who has only taken college prep classes with a 2.5-3.0 GPA survive in a Wake or Duke or Carolina environment? |
| NF1974 |
Posted - 07/27/2015 : 16:00:35
My son attends a D-3 high academic school. he was seen and recruited from the Honor Roll showcase that he attended between his junior and senior year. There were actually 6 schools that contacted him. We corresponded with the coachs' from 4 of these and we made a site visit to 2. At each visit we toured the school and met with the head coach. My son decided that he wanted to go to the school in Virgina. The head coach said that he wanted him but that he could make no guaranty that he would be on the team.He said that the first thing that had to be accomplished was for my son to " get accepted". He applied for early admission and got accepted. The coach was very involved in the process and would e mail my son to make sure that he got documents turned in etc.. This gave us a good feeling that he was serious about our son playing. When he was accepted we also applied for financial need based on both Academics and Need. I am a divorced dad and they took into consideration both my income and my ex's. they also looked at the fact that we have a daughter attending UGA. They looked at Tax returns etc.. to determine the level of support. They finally came back and said that he would receive 48k of a 58k annual tuition however they only guaranteed this amount for 2 years. They are going to take a look at the income(s) again and also take into the account that my daughter will no longer be at UGA.
He did make the team but we were nervous up until the day they finalized the roster. They did cut several boys even near the end of the Fall season. They only carried 27 players and 9 of these were PO's. Even though there is no limit to how many players they can carry, I guess they just wanted to have a manageable roster for coaching and traveling.
In addition to the aid they gave him, he was directed toward a couple of student loans through Fafsa. |
| gemofthehills |
Posted - 07/26/2015 : 14:56:19
Horse of a different color is still a horse.
Ivys do allow their coaches to offer slots for admission based on athletic ability (academics should still be high level). Not sure of the criteria today but a few years back the family income had to be less than $200,000 to receive aid. |
| in_the_know |
Posted - 07/26/2015 : 09:17:35
quote:
Originally posted by gemofthehills
Ivy League is DI.
They compete at DI level, however they do not follow the scholarship limitations for D1.
As previously and correctly stated, there are no Athletic scholarships at the Ivy's. There are also no Academic scholarships.
The only financial aid from the schools to attendees is based on Financial Need.
For those reasons, you can't have a conversation about athletic, academic and financial money and even begin to consider referring to the Ivy's as D1 since their financial structure is nothing like 99.9% of the D1 schools.
http://www.ivyleaguesports.com/information/psa/index |
| bballman |
Posted - 07/26/2015 : 08:33:42
quote:
Originally posted by gemofthehills
Ivy League is DI.
Yes, they are. But, they live by their own set of rules. |
| gemofthehills |
Posted - 07/25/2015 : 23:04:48
Ivy League is DI. |
| docdee |
Posted - 07/25/2015 : 20:55:48
Since this subject comes up fairly frequently and is both important and complicated there should be a forum devoted to it. How about it mods? |
| bballman |
Posted - 07/25/2015 : 20:39:33
Well, depends on what kind of walk-on you are talking about.
Most schools have a fall tryout for the team. Your chances of making the team this way is slim to none. My son plays for a D2 team. The coach has been there for 18 years. Last year was the first year he ever took on a kid from a fall tryout. And he got red shirted his first year.
If you are talking about being a recruited walk on or a walk on that has talked to the coach the coach has told you that he wants you on the team, then your chances are much better. D1 teams can only give scholarships to a maximum of 27 players. And they carry a 35 player roster. So, at least 8 players have to be walk ons. But, they are usually there at the coach's request. They are also usually kids that have high academics and can get a bunch of money from academics and don't really need the baseball money. Schools other than D1 don't have a limit on the number of players that can be on scholarship, but they usually don't have everyone on scholarship. I know D2 only has 9 scholarships available. I could find the NAIA and JUCO numbers, but I don't have time right now. But, there will always be walk ons on every team. Just don't show up unknown to anyone to tryout for a team and have high expectations to make the team. Odds are very low. |
| bbsis |
Posted - 07/25/2015 : 16:48:35
bballman, obviously, walk-ons have the least interest of all but are there generally a few spots for walk-ons since they have already been admitted to the school (assuming they have talent to compete)? |
| bballman |
Posted - 07/25/2015 : 14:37:06
Is it a possibility? Sure. However, the big question is, have and ACC or SEC teams shown any interest in him? If yes, there is still a possibility. If he has had no interest, then it's pretty much a long shot. However, keep this in mind as well. If he hasn't gotten an actual offer yet from one of those schools, he's not high on their list. The probability of getting that offer and being an impact player are pretty slim.
The market will determine where a player belongs. If he's not getting calls from big D1 schools, by omission, they are telling you that's not where he belongs. If the Ivy's and D3s are making the most inquiries and showing the most interest, they are telling you that's where he belongs.
Have you looked into other possibilities? D2, JUCO, NAIA? Sometimes JUCO is a good option if you feel like your son has some growing and improving to do. Many kids will go to a JUCO, develop for a couple of years and get picked up by a D1 after that. Maybe a good D2 is an option. I don't know your son or what kind of interest he has garnered, but the general saying is, Go where you are wanted. Sometimes the option is going to a big D1 and sitting on the bench or going to a D2 or D3 and getting a bunch of play time right from the start. Things are competitive enough. No matter where a player goes, he will be competing with a whole team of other players who were the best in their school, town, conference in HS. Going into a school with a coach who already likes you and believes you can play from the beginning goes a long way to getting opportunities on the field.
I know that was a long winded answer to a yes or no question, but I hope it gives you a little more insight. |
