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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| bmoser |
Posted - 12/04/2008 : 21:03:03
I've seen a few Coaches who make the stats available to all parents (1 was roasted for it by the parents whose sons were at, or near, the bottom). Most Coaches keep them confidential.
As a non-Coaching parent who wanted to keep track of things, I started keeping my own book. At the end of one season, I found the bottom half of the order outhit the top half by 100+ points per player! (no matter how I scored the iffy reached on errors). I kept it quiet, but moved on at seasons end.
I'd guess the most common Coaching approach is to make only the inquiring parents sons stats available to his parents if asked, but no others.
Is this the best method of dealing with this highly sensitive issue? Does it change with age? Does it even matter if your son is having fun?
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| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| SportsDad |
Posted - 12/13/2008 : 11:50:20
Well something you guys ought to consider with the "where's Chuckie hitting connundrum" in pool play reverse your "normal hitting" order against the team you know you'll probably run rule. It ain't going to hurt your team (heck I think pulling names out of a hat works just as well 95% of the time)and besides nothing makes a kid who's always hitting at the bottom get a chance to hit at the top happier. You pitch your #4-5 pitcher against them, why not use your #5 lineup against them.. |
| Dr. Old School |
Posted - 12/12/2008 : 22:00:28
I agree big ed. I have seen, too many times, where a player will hit in the bottom half of the order, with success, as much due to who is hitting around them and the type of pitches they see. It is typical nature for coaches to call pitch sequences different for 8, 9, and 10 hitters than 1, 2, 3. If you move a player, who is successful at 9, up to 2, most of the time they will not be as successful. Partially from pitch sequence difference and part because of the fear of being moved back down in the lineup. I would much prefer to have my son consistently hit in the 7 hole because the coach had a gameplan than for him to move between the top and the bottom just by how he hit the last couple of tournaments. There are just too many other things that go into determining the lineup than stats.
I don't thing publishing them all the time is a good option, but there should be an open policy that if someone wants to see the stats for their kid you make them available. |
| biged |
Posted - 12/12/2008 : 20:05:27
Keep in mind that players in the lower part of the line up often get better pitches to hit. If pitchers are taught the right way, they are told to go after the bottom of the line up. If a pitcher walks a batter in the bottom of the line up it is a huge mistake. These batters are there for a reason, they simply should not be able to consistently hit as good as batters in the top of the line up. That being said, after 3 to 5 games of hitting better then a player in the top of the line up, a move should be made.
There is no harder spot in the line up to hit then the 3 hole. That must be taken into consideration....
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| ronicard |
Posted - 12/12/2008 : 10:28:45
Maybe I'm the anomaly, but we do it even a bit more slightly different from all I've seen so far.
1) We keep stats on EVERYTHING, practices included. I got this idea from Ron Polk's Baseball Handbook, but we even score the majority of our batting practices. We use his hitting productivity and pitching productivity rating systems on a swing-by-swing basis. We don't do this for every practice but at least one every week is graded. Those scores are published internally on our website for our parents and the kids all view it as a competition and work their butts off to get better and move to the top.
2) Regarding scorekeepers, we have 3 on our team who will keep the books for us this season. Prior to becoming a scorekeeper, they sit down with myself and my other 3 coaches and we go through scoring a mock game pitch-by-pitch. You can do it in about 15 minutes and include examples for all kinds of weird plays, but in the end everyone knows how I want the records kept so that I can easily transcribe them into my stats spreadsheets.
3) We keep our stats spreadsheets current on our website as well (again, password protected so only my parents can see it...I don't want you other travel ball coaches getting a free scouting report  ). We do NOT however, use these stats solely as a method of determing batting order. They help, and are included in the batting order decision making, but are not the sole stats.
4) We have team get-togethers once every other month (we're having one tonight as a matter of fact). As part of that team get-together, the parents AND the players will meet the coaches. All four coaches and little Johnny and little Johnny's mom & dad will all go into a room and we openly and honestly discuss what Johnny is doing well, what is not doing well, what we think he needs to work on, etc. Parents are not only allowed to ask questions, but are encouraged to do so. The question of "why is he hitting towards the bottom of the lineup?" is one of the questions that we field often, as well as, "why is he playing in such and such a position?". Once we have answered those questions, and the parents hear our reasoning, we have never yet had a parent complain about it because they see that we have a reasoning method on why players play where they do or hit where they do.
Finally, regarding lineups and positions. Parents should understand that not every coach plays daddy ball. Not a single coach on my team does and, frankly, I LOVE playing teams where they do, because that's an advantage to me if you aren't maximizing your team's talents due to some sense of familial obligations. However, a lot of things go into the decision of who hits where. For instance, if you have a heavier-set, power hitting kid on your team, chances are that he's going to hit in the 3 or 4 slot. Even if his batting average starts to drop, if he's getting hard hit balls, we don't tend to move him out of that spot because we're looking for hard-hit balls...eventually, those will fall. But let's say that we do have such a kid hitting 4th in our lineup. In that case, I try to avoid putting a jackrabbit right behind this kid because the powerhitter becomes a roadblock to the jackrabbit when they both get on base. Also, the fact of the matter is that some kids tend to hit better in certain lineup positions exactly because they ARE in those lineup positions. I have one kid who is a spray hitter with great bat control....not overly powerful, but has the ability to hit it where he wants to usually. I tend to hit him behind a couple of other kids I have who are super-speedy guys who are always on base because the pitchers and fielders become occupied tried to hold those runners and my place hitter is able to take advantage of the holes they leave. Would he make a good leadoff hitter? Sure, he probably would. But my contention is that his OBP would drop by over 100 points and his batting average most likely do the same by 50 or 60 points as well...all because he's no longer hitting behind those guys.
So, my one word of caution to bmoser would be to make sure that some of the lower lineup guys weren't benefitting from such a situation. If it's truly the entire bottom of the lineup hitting better than the top, then I'd look for another team most likely. Personally, I want the guys getting hits and getting on base to be the ones getting that extra at bat during a game because it maximizes our team's chance to win.
Anyway, just my own opinion. |
| Hoyas Baseball |
Posted - 12/12/2008 : 09:56:05
As everyone knows stats can be manipulated! Anything 13U on down makes it hard to fully accept and digest stats as legit. The field dimensions really determine a lot. Consciously or unconsciously we're measuring success using MLB or NCAA bars/standards. But those fields are much larger than youth league fields.
I've only been a part of one team that didn't make stats available to public or parents. That team also used the same batting lineup the entire season. The same!! Not a coincidence. With travel ball every parent should to some degree keep up with their childs offensive performance. DEFENSE TOO, THOUGH! You have an assignment of determining if the progress your son is making is at, below or above your expectations. Our memories are only so good
As a parent, I've come to look for three measuring sticks for my son's progress.
#1 Strikeouts - How often, in what situation, what pitch, swinging or looking, what's was the count??? Consistent contact is all you really want your boy to do. As he grows the power will come. It's easier to teach a player to generate power in his swing than it is to stop him from swinging and missing so often.
#2 Hard hit balls. Grounder, Line Drive, Fly Ball is secondary. Was it hit hard?? The fields are smaller so a ball hit right to the right fielder could be in the gap on a bigger field.
#3 Walks - Seeing the ball and early pitch recognition is important. Part of intelligent hitting is expecting and looking for certain pitches in certain locations. It's a lot easier to lay off of a pitch recognized out of the pitcher's hand or if you're expecting it. If you walk a lot you're probably doing a lot of thinking at the plate.
At 13U on down the only other stat that should be used is OBP simply because at the lower levels a single usually at least means a double (steal 2nd base). With less than two outs that run scores at a high percentage. As a coach all you need is guys to reach first base safely and consistently.
As a coach at this level, there's no way you get away from a simple phrase - "Go with who's hot!!!" They're children and their good games will be mixed in with some not so good.
My suggestion to parents is be observant of the subjective decisions a coach makes. But know that's what coaching is - SUBJECTIVE! What he thinks will work best. Respect it but don't be foolish. If you see extreme, blatant favoritism move on at seasons end. |
| biged |
Posted - 12/12/2008 : 09:53:25
Some call it confidence. Or as another post stated, they have "IT". |
| stallion |
Posted - 12/11/2008 : 17:38:50
coachdan, i agree. I guess i was trying to make the point that some kids are into this game more than others. Maybe I did not word it right but what i was trying to say is there are kids that thrive on helping their teams win and when they dont produce in key situations, I see no problem with them being upset. Let me tell you coach there are a lot of hotdogs in major sports. |
| coachdan06 |
Posted - 12/11/2008 : 12:50:13
quote:
Originally posted by stallion
Mechanicplus, what a great concept. This is travel ball, there should be a level of measurement and accountability. Go back to rec ball if you can't hang. So what if the person keeping the book is off a bit. You know on your team who can do what. It seems to me that the people that complain the most, kids have the worst stats.
I played college ball, let me tell you if you thank that at this level you are going to baby little johnny and he is going to play at the next level then you are confused. You can ask almost any guy that played D1 ball or made it to the bigs, his dad or coach was over the top a little. So keep making babies out of your boys and those dad that you say are yelling and expecting a lot from their players and kids, watch where they go. And trust me if your boys love baseball then you can not run them away from it. So as a D1 Athelete, I love you parents out there cuddling your sons, because my son will blow them away mentally. This is from someone who has walked that walked. So you parents or coaches who have not played this game at a high level, if you think your kid is going to play this game at a next level you better step up your game. Trust me if you son can not take a coach yelling at him, he needs to hit the books harder because he will not make it against boys that are stronger mentally. The kids that make it have more than talent, they expect success. So look for that kid who gets upset at himself when he makes an error, stikes out or does not get a hit. Thats not bad sportsmanship, thats high expectations. I will take a entire team of kids with that kind of mentality.
Great insights Stallion !
The mommas and daddys who hand wring behind the backstop then criticize the coaches and other players but then cuddle their son , challenge the coach over his failures and exclusions and do this all in front of the son are giving him an easy way out mentally .
They also are teaching him to quit not to excel despite the hassles that may be included.
Obvious they know nothing of team sports so there goes the genetic edge which SOMETIMES helps.
The mental edge ALWAYS helps.
Those boys have neither edge yet are dragged through the youth sports years purely because Mom and Dad badly need to have them in there.
Its terrible and I feel for every boy who comes along like this but its just another form of materialism you know or keeping up with the family down the street whos boy does excel.
These are the very last people you want for a team they are a cancer in the bleachers. Soon enough and usually before high school they disappear completely.
ONe disagreement I have Stallion is the escelling boys parents being a bit over the top. Not Always.
And if he or she is , you wont always see it at the field.
And another, a boy who outwardly shows disappointment in his failures is not of "high expectations". It IS poor sportsmanship born of caring for no team or no one just his own accomplishments.
Contain your emotions and stay on your game . If you have to act out whenever something goes wrong then you clearly think youre not very good to start with or wouldnt be trying to tell everyone you are with the tantrums.
Im dont think you want an entire team of those kids. 
In the big show teammates and fans refer to those as Hot Dogs and Selfish. Same goes for youth sports IMHO.
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| stallion |
Posted - 12/10/2008 : 23:17:03
Mechanicplus, what a great concept. This is travel ball, there should be a level of measurement and accountability. Go back to rec ball if you can't hang. So what if the person keeping the book is off a bit. You know on your team who can do what. It seems to me that the people that complain the most, kids have the worst stats.
I played college ball, let me tell you if you thank that at this level you are going to baby little johnny and he is going to play at the next level then you are confused. You can ask almost any guy that played D1 ball or made it to the bigs, his dad or coach was over the top a little. So keep making babies out of your boys and those dad that you say are yelling and expecting a lot from their players and kids, watch where they go. And trust me if your boys love baseball then you can not run them away from it. So as a D1 Athelete, I love you parents out there cuddling your sons, because my son will blow them away mentally. This is from someone who has walked that walked. So you parents or coaches who have not played this game at a high level, if you think your kid is going to play this game at a next level you better step up your game. Trust me if you son can not take a coach yelling at him, he needs to hit the books harder because he will not make it against boys that are stronger mentally. The kids that make it have more than talent, they expect success. So look for that kid who gets upset at himself when he makes an error, stikes out or does not get a hit. Thats not bad sportsmanship, thats high expectations. I will take a entire team of kids with that kind of mentality. |
| HITANDRUN |
Posted - 12/10/2008 : 14:21:34
If you are going to keep and publish stats, publish all of them. Make sure your score keeper is consistent and try to find one who doesn't have a dog in the fight. |
| mechanicsplus |
Posted - 12/09/2008 : 18:58:06
Why would you Coach a competitive Travel baseball team and NOT record stats and make them available?? Why would someone want to put their son on a team that plays competitively, but doesn't value measureable performance? Baseball, probably more than any other sport, analyzes, scruitnizes and publishes statistics of every athletic action. Players should demand to know how they are doing and realize early that they WILL be measured at every advanced level. Players need to learn how to deal with their performance ups and downs. They should learn to view stats over the long haul and not get too hung up when they aren't where they would like! Coaches should WANT objective performance data to know what is and what isn't occuring in their lineups.
Parents should be told that good Coaches measure performance and good players want to know how they are doing. That being said, Coaches use stats as just another tool in determining lineups, playing time etc. I made stats available for anyone that wanted to see them on Travel teams from 12U on up. I've always kept a personal book to track my sons progress for his usage. There are lessons for all to be learned about dealing with success and failure, in the statistics. Good Coaches, parents and players realize that stats don't always reveal how well, or how bad you are performing but they are a HUGE part of the game. I don't understand those who don't want the "numbers shared" but say they want to develop competitors and enter into competitive leagues. Send the nay sayers and non-performers to the rec-leagues where they should remain
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| bmoser |
Posted - 12/09/2008 : 16:52:07
the only way I know of to manipulate the hitting stats is with the reached on errors. That's why I keep a seperate column for those. I calculate batting averages with all of them counted as ROE and again counting them all as hits.
quote:
Originally posted by baseballwizkid
Stats can be manipulated anyway the coach and/or parent wants them to. It shouldn’t be this way but unfortunately in competitive travel YOUTH baseball it’s a common ordeal. The situation that one of you mentioned about the bottom of the lineup was hitting better than the top and the top was all the coaches kids is as common as it gets. Coaches son’s who are usually the better athletes but don’t always produce the #’s that the Coaches/Dads think they can or are doing, but just because they have that hope/selfishness/daddyballer in them, they get the opportunity to bat at the top, regardless of their stats.
It’s just amazing to watch a youth travel game and see the entire infield made up of the 4-5 coaches son’s and the batting order 1-5 being the same kids, regardless of continuous errors and bad averages, they still get the nod.
But hey, they give their time to coach why not be a daddy baler and give their own kid the better chance to shine or get more at bats than others, whatever…..
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| mammabee |
Posted - 12/09/2008 : 12:42:35
quote:
Originally posted by baseballwizkid
Stats can be manipulated anyway the coach and/or parent wants them to. It shouldn’t be this way but unfortunately in competitive travel YOUTH baseball it’s a common ordeal. The situation that one of you mentioned about the bottom of the lineup was hitting better than the top and the top was all the coaches kids is as common as it gets. Coaches son’s who are usually the better athletes but don’t always produce the #’s that the Coaches/Dads think they can or are doing, but just because they have that hope/selfishness/daddyballer in them, they get the opportunity to bat at the top, regardless of their stats.
It’s just amazing to watch a youth travel game and see the entire infield made up of the 4-5 coaches son’s and the batting order 1-5 being the same kids, regardless of continuous errors and bad averages, they still get the nod.
But hey, they give their time to coach why not be a daddy baler and give their own kid the better chance to shine or get more at bats than others, whatever…..
Yes you have said some very good things and I am agreing except for one
With respect to them including my Uncle who coached and our coach who is good and very fair
Over the years I surely cant agree that the coaches sons are usual the better athletes thats just not so & its not usual when the boys get older.
It can happen and we have seen it though. |
| baseballwizkid |
Posted - 12/09/2008 : 08:26:55
Stats can be manipulated anyway the coach and/or parent wants them to. It shouldn’t be this way but unfortunately in competitive travel YOUTH baseball it’s a common ordeal. The situation that one of you mentioned about the bottom of the lineup was hitting better than the top and the top was all the coaches kids is as common as it gets. Coaches son’s who are usually the better athletes but don’t always produce the #’s that the Coaches/Dads think they can or are doing, but just because they have that hope/selfishness/daddyballer in them, they get the opportunity to bat at the top, regardless of their stats.
It’s just amazing to watch a youth travel game and see the entire infield made up of the 4-5 coaches son’s and the batting order 1-5 being the same kids, regardless of continuous errors and bad averages, they still get the nod.
But hey, they give their time to coach why not be a daddy baler and give their own kid the better chance to shine or get more at bats than others, whatever…..
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| 12uCoach |
Posted - 12/08/2008 : 16:30:36
quote:
Originally posted by coachdan06
you now have a coach problem with agendas. save your breath and find another team until high school when all that junk goes out the window.
Ummm, there are enough examples of some, not all, High School coaches with agendas. Some, not all, High School coaches are not exempt from ignoring the stats and doing what they want to do. |
| bmoser |
Posted - 12/08/2008 : 16:14:40
743,
I thought I could keep track, but I was wrong. One Coach shared the stats mid-season. All us parents admitted our perceptions were way off from reality. We asked to see the game-by-game stats, and found we unconciously remembered and/or forgot what we wanted to. So no, I couldnt do it in my head. Parents were off in both directions too. This is where parents can get into trouble with Coaches. If you are going to confront a Coach based upon what you perceive and recall after 6-10 games, you might just make a fool out of yourself when the Coach breaks the book out.
Yes I did leave. Every hitter in the 7,9,10,11 holes(all non-coaching parents kids)outhit every hitter in the 2,3,4,5, hole (all Coaches kids), and some by over 100 points. Collectively, it was .293 versus .350 after ~40 plate appearances (no matter how I dealt with the reached on errors). 3 of 4 didn't return.
quote:
Originally posted by 743
Bmoser-If you had not kept any stats at all, would you have known your son wasn't getting a fair shake? I imagine your son knew it too. You make a good point though if you don't have anything to compare it to, you might think you are over reacting. I assume you left that team?
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| greglomax |
Posted - 12/08/2008 : 16:01:47
Coachdan,
As long as you don't assume that EVERY parent keeping stats is a troublemaker, I am fine with your assessment.
Keep in mind there are some of us that do it because every team needs to have an official book as the game goes along, even if the coach does not officially appoint one. This is critical in cases where there are discrepencies in the runs scored, balls and strikes counts, official start time, etc. I have just been involved in too many situations where having the book clarified the issue. Otherwise you are at the discression of the other team's scorer. My wife typically keeps a book and I do it if she is not there. The parents we have been with that have kept books would come over and ask "how did you rule that?" Everyone has always been real good about the situation.
Maybe others have had some bad situations. We have had some uniformed parents try to keep their own book and ask, on a fly ball to left, "That was a hit, wasn't it?" |
| coachdan06 |
Posted - 12/08/2008 : 14:41:22
quote:
Originally posted by bmoser
I cant go along with you on this one 743. If I had kept only my sons hitting stats, I would not have been able to assess the Coaches line up, and known how bad it really was. Had I only kept my sons fielding %, I would not have known that he led the team, and one of the Coaches kids who never saw the outfield had the lowest fielding % on the team.
Parents, keep ALL the stats. Keep them confidential, use them to decide if your son should stick w/ his current Coach, or not. Using them to confront the Coach during the season is a bad idea. Its for end-of-season analysis only. You need to have all the data to know if your kid is getting a fair shake.
quote:
Originally posted by 743
You all make good points concerning stats. If there was an official score keeper doing the book I wouldn't mind using them, as another tool to determine where a player hits in the lineup, however,(as some have pointed out)there are alot of other variables that go into that too. For instance you don't bat the player on your team lead off because he has the highest on base percentage if he is slow. You don't want your best RBI batting lead off either. Another point, how many times has the player with the dad keeping the book gotten a few questionable hits? If the person keeping the book isn't consistent in how he or she does it then numbers get skewed also. One dad keeps it one game, another mom one game. I say as a parent, keep stats for your own son, use them as means to see how he is improving, dont' worry about the other kids. In the long run if a coach is a good coach and wants to win he will have the kids hitting getting the most ABs.
743 and moseler : good points.
especially about who keeps the book and the subsequent validity of the hits and errors recorded.
parents outwardly keeping stats at a game are always booked as troublemakers and quite often its an accurate assessment.
keep the stats private , keep your notes out of the bleachers.
but , dont use it against the coach in his face its not going to change much : if your son leads the team in hits and he's batting in the bottom of the order the stats have nothing to do with who is playing or hitting where .
you now have a coach problem with agendas. save your breath and find another team until high school when all that junk goes out the window. |
| 743 |
Posted - 12/08/2008 : 11:59:42
Bmoser-If you had not kept any stats at all, would you have known your son wasn't getting a fair shake? I imagine your son knew it too. You make a good point though if you don't have anything to compare it to, you might think you are over reacting. I assume you left that team? |
| bmoser |
Posted - 12/05/2008 : 19:53:00
I cant go along with you on this one 743. If I had kept only my sons hitting stats, I would not have been able to assess the Coaches line up, and known how bad it really was. Had I only kept my sons fielding %, I would not have known that he led the team, and one of the Coaches kids who never saw the outfield had the lowest fielding % on the team.
Parents, keep ALL the stats. Keep them confidential, use them to decide if your son should stick w/ his current Coach, or not. Using them to confront the Coach during the season is a bad idea. Its for end-of-season analysis only. You need to have all the data to know if your kid is getting a fair shake.
quote:
Originally posted by 743
You all make good points concerning stats. If there was an official score keeper doing the book I wouldn't mind using them, as another tool to determine where a player hits in the lineup, however,(as some have pointed out)there are alot of other variables that go into that too. For instance you don't bat the player on your team lead off because he has the highest on base percentage if he is slow. You don't want your best RBI batting lead off either. Another point, how many times has the player with the dad keeping the book gotten a few questionable hits? If the person keeping the book isn't consistent in how he or she does it then numbers get skewed also. One dad keeps it one game, another mom one game. I say as a parent, keep stats for your own son, use them as means to see how he is improving, dont' worry about the other kids. In the long run if a coach is a good coach and wants to win he will have the kids hitting getting the most ABs.
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| Hitcoach |
Posted - 12/05/2008 : 19:28:22
As stated all coaches move their line ups based on different reasoning. If any body remembers a short stop who played for the Florida Marlins by the name Alex Gonzalez. He had the worst batting average of any player on the 2003 World Series Champions including pitchers. And played every inning of the series. Trader Jack (manager) was telling the media you don't bench one of the top defensive players in the game because he isn't hitting,you adjust your line up and let him know he is in there for a reason to help keep his confidance up. That is how I approach my line up as well once we are out of pool play.The best 9 take the field.
As far as my lead off batter is concerned he truley is only the offical lead offf his first at bat. Once the game starts every time you come back up to bat it will more then likely be another batter that is leading off. |
| 743 |
Posted - 12/05/2008 : 16:28:10
You all make good points concerning stats. If there was an official score keeper doing the book I wouldn't mind using them, as another tool to determine where a player hits in the lineup, however,(as some have pointed out)there are alot of other variables that go into that too. For instance you don't bat the player on your team lead off because he has the highest on base percentage if he is slow. You don't want your best RBI batting lead off either. Another point, how many times has the player with the dad keeping the book gotten a few questionable hits? If the person keeping the book isn't consistent in how he or she does it then numbers get skewed also. One dad keeps it one game, another mom one game. I say as a parent, keep stats for your own son, use them as means to see how he is improving, dont' worry about the other kids. In the long run if a coach is a good coach and wants to win he will have the kids hitting getting the most ABs. |
| biged |
Posted - 12/05/2008 : 14:26:06
A was speaking to the batting coach from Young Harris College. He has an interesting way of keeping stats. QAB or Quality at Bats stat. His theory is that players may have a batting average that does not truely represent how a player is doing. A walk, line drive out, sac fly, hard hit ground ball, hit by pitch, and a base hits all are averaged into total at bats. Therefore, a player may go 0-4 and feel like a total loser. But his QAB might be .500. He may have had two line drive outs and 2 k's. He was unfortunate to have two well hit balls caught.
The coach from young harris claims that it really helps with confidence and that some teams use it the majors. |
| BREAMKING |
Posted - 12/05/2008 : 11:02:14
I think stats can be made into whatever you want it to. We do not even keep stats. If a players is hitting good any coach that wants to win will move his order accordingly. I come from the school of thought that the line up changes with who is hot. If a kid is on a streak he moves up if he gets cold he moves down. |
| HITANDRUN |
Posted - 12/05/2008 : 10:52:14
I believe you have to look at each bat individually and keep a mental note of how kids are swinging the bat, not a bloop single or cheap hit or questionable hit/error. If a kid takes some good swings or goes 3 for 3 with 3 line drives right to someone he is batting zero, he walks 5 more times. Still battin Zero. The other kid looks horrible on two swings and then hits one that was way over his head, eventhough his batting average is higher, I want the kid taking good swings with good at bats batting more times. |
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