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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| 743 |
Posted - 11/12/2008 : 16:43:04
As a Head Coach would you rather have a top 3 ranked team in GA with alot of parent problems and high maintenance kids, with the equipment throwing or a .500 team whos parents all got along and the kids were all easily managed and tempered and improved? Let me hear it from managers with experience in both areas. |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| jscoda |
Posted - 11/19/2008 : 14:08:12
I have no problem with yelling at a player, if that action causes a positive result with the player. ( could care less what the parents in the stands think, I know my players)
I guess you don't mind your boss yelling at you at work as long as it increases your performance. (could care less about your dignity as a person, he knows his employees)
And parents are still shaking their heads and laughing at you.
Here is a news flash, they are not YOURS. |
| SportsDad |
Posted - 11/19/2008 : 11:46:17
Coachdan06, when I stated "don't treat all kids the same" I wasn't referring to inappropriate actions on a ballfield, but rather methods employed to motivate the player to achieve his best. Acting immature is completly different than having a response that a coach perceives as negative or a lack of "mental toughness". I've coached kids that react positively to yelling/swift kick in the pants, and others that shut down with that type of motivation. The "not treat all kids the same" was an attempt to convey the message that what works with one kid doesn't work with another. The misconception that exist is that certain reaction of kids are viewed positively by "society" and others are view negatively. My point is that the reaction isn't the "problem" but rather the methods that were employed that illicited the reaction. I have no problem with yelling at a player, if that action causes a positive result with the player. ( could care less what the parents in the stands think, I know my players) Conversely don't attach a negative connotation to the player that reacts neagtively to this type of motivation. ie he's not "mentally tough". For some unknown reason to me, we view different types of motivatiing techniques differently. I think that is wrong. No method of motivation that illicits the positive response we are trying to invoke is wrong. Understanding the "mental makeup" of a kid has nothing to do with the expectation that he acts properly on a ballfield,( that's assumed under the Respect for the Game doctrine)but rather what we as coaches can do, and how we can motivate that player to achieve his best. To give you some insight in how wrong I think some positive "talk" is sometimes, is when a kid strikes out on a ball in the dirt and I hear from the stands, "good swing Johnny".. I just shake my head and wonder, why would you ever want to positive reinforce a negative behavior...It's never about making a kid feel better, it's only about makeing him a better ballplayer.. |
| coachdan06 |
Posted - 11/18/2008 : 19:50:23
quote:
Originally posted by SportsDad
All kids are different,coaches who treat all kids the same are fools. I've coached kids that are as "mentally tough" as they come, but don't react well (cry/become emotionally upset at yelling/"constuctive critism") and I've coached kids who on the outside appear tough as nails but in reality are marshmellows. Each kid is motivated by different factors, a good coach figures what motivates that particular player. One size doesn't fit all. Anyone who thinks "old school" or thats the way it was done when i was growing up, is hung up on themselves and the insecruities they carry as baggage. Nope, sorry, I don't believe that. Now I believe the game needs to be played a little more "old school" but anyone who coaches like "their Dad did" or "this is how my coach did it growing up", concedes the fact that what they learned as a kid hasn't been improved upon. Nope sorry, I'm a better father than my father was, and I'm a heck of a lot better coach than any HS or college coach I ever had. Coach a kid with whatever tools best suit him,don't try to impose what you think is the "I'll make him mentally tough way" you're probably doing more long term harm than you even realize. When you try to change the emotional make up of a kid to suit what you think is right, you'll never reach him on a level that will make him a better ball player.
Sportsdad : I agree with some of what you say.
I dont agree about being a "fool" if treat all the kids the same.
Here is what I mean and what I said b/4 : the coach must treat all the kids same in value. That means specifically dont let one kid act out act immature focus only upon himself melt down on the field at the plate and then bust another kid for doing the same thing or for doing nothing even close to that.
That is not called coaching different personalities that is plain favortism of one player over another and typically is in the favor of whom the coach may see as a better or best team player ; why tick that player off and probably his parents too if the kid is being allowed to act that way : after all the apple dont fall far from the tree .
Then take out your displeasure on the kid whose parent doesnt take personal your yelling at her or his boy and handles it like an adult?? Sorry thats not coaching and it sure isnt motivating.
Holding a player accountable for his misbehavior is coaching and the coaching becomes even better when ALL the players all held equally accountable. This is about leadership and respect for everyone involved.
If a coach cant make a kid act proper at the ballfield for fear of ' changing his mental makeup 'then heres the newsflash : he aint ever going to be a ballplayer and the clock is ticking down fast. I have seen too many kids boys go out that way.
I say all this in assumption that we're speaking of kids older than 7 or 8 years old. |
| jscoda |
Posted - 11/18/2008 : 18:44:41
quote:
Originally posted by gdad
There is a difference between constructive critcism and yelling,when the coach is looking like an idiot and not knowing the game himself it is not good for the kid.Its fine to be loud if you know what you are doing to start with.
There is a difference in loud and yelling. Communicate to the team over the noise of the crowd, yes........yelling at players when in the dugout or team meeting, no way. You can yell at the players all you want and look around at the parents shaking their heads and laughing at you. Get a grip. |
| gdad |
Posted - 11/18/2008 : 14:44:38
There is a difference between constructive critcism and yelling,when the coach is looking like an idiot and not knowing the game himself it is not good for the kid.Its fine to be loud if you know what you are doing to start with. |
| BBall123 |
Posted - 11/18/2008 : 13:46:14
Sports dad I agree with a lot of what you have said , All kids are not the same and you have to approach each one according to his make up . the hung up on themselves if statement is , well I disagree lets leave it at that.you should never "yell" at a kid but you do as a coach have to critique there play (constructive criticism)in order to coach and improve on there game.we could argue this issue for days, let me just say that mental tuffness is a big part of the game and life and there comes a time as parents that we have to let the kid fend for himself on the ballfield and learn to have it.
quote:
Originally posted by baseball99
quote:
Originally posted by SportsDad
All kids are different,coaches who treat all kids the same are fools. I've coached kids that are as "mentally tough" as they come, but don't react well (cry/become emotionally upset at yelling/"constuctive critism") and I've coached kids who on the outside appear tough as nails but in reality are marshmellows. Each kid is motivated by different factors, a good coach figures what motivates that particular player. One size doesn't fit all. Anyone who thinks "old school" or thats the way it was done when i was growing up, is hung up on themselves and the insecruities they carry as baggage. Nope, sorry, I don't believe that. Now I believe the game needs to be played a little more "old school" but anyone who coaches like "their Dad did" or "this is how my coach did it growing up", concedes the fact that what they learned as a kid hasn't been improved upon. Nope sorry, I'm a better father than my father was, and I'm a heck of a lot better coach than any HS or college coach I ever had. Coach a kid with whatever tools best suit him,don't try to impose what you think is the "I'll make him mentally tough way" you're probably doing more long term harm than you even realize. When you try to change the emotional make up of a kid to suit what you think is right, you'll never reach him on a level that will make him a better ball player.
I hope every coach in Georgia reads this and learns from it. I've watched many stubborn, ego driven coaches drive many kids away from a sport that they love because they don't know how to motivate a particular kid or won't take the time to learn.
|
| baseball99 |
Posted - 11/18/2008 : 09:39:36
quote:
Originally posted by SportsDad
All kids are different,coaches who treat all kids the same are fools. I've coached kids that are as "mentally tough" as they come, but don't react well (cry/become emotionally upset at yelling/"constuctive critism") and I've coached kids who on the outside appear tough as nails but in reality are marshmellows. Each kid is motivated by different factors, a good coach figures what motivates that particular player. One size doesn't fit all. Anyone who thinks "old school" or thats the way it was done when i was growing up, is hung up on themselves and the insecruities they carry as baggage. Nope, sorry, I don't believe that. Now I believe the game needs to be played a little more "old school" but anyone who coaches like "their Dad did" or "this is how my coach did it growing up", concedes the fact that what they learned as a kid hasn't been improved upon. Nope sorry, I'm a better father than my father was, and I'm a heck of a lot better coach than any HS or college coach I ever had. Coach a kid with whatever tools best suit him,don't try to impose what you think is the "I'll make him mentally tough way" you're probably doing more long term harm than you even realize. When you try to change the emotional make up of a kid to suit what you think is right, you'll never reach him on a level that will make him a better ball player.
I hope every coach in Georgia reads this and learns from it. I've watched many stubborn, ego driven coaches drive many kids away from a sport that they love because they don't know how to motivate a particular kid or won't take the time to learn. |
| you are out |
Posted - 11/18/2008 : 09:28:55
I agreee with SportsDad. The unfortunate part is most coaches do not communicate as well on other issues than X's and O's about the game. Which is one of the reasons when it is the time of the year to try out for teams it is not just about your kid making the best team it is a parents responsibility to have their kid try out for a coach that can teach and develop more than X's & O's. You should find out as much about a coach as you can prior to accepting a spot on a roster. |
| SportsDad |
Posted - 11/18/2008 : 01:13:34
All kids are different,coaches who treat all kids the same are fools. I've coached kids that are as "mentally tough" as they come, but don't react well (cry/become emotionally upset at yelling/"constuctive critism") and I've coached kids who on the outside appear tough as nails but in reality are marshmellows. Each kid is motivated by different factors, a good coach figures what motivates that particular player. One size doesn't fit all. Anyone who thinks "old school" or thats the way it was done when i was growing up, is hung up on themselves and the insecruities they carry as baggage. Nope, sorry, I don't believe that. Now I believe the game needs to be played a little more "old school" but anyone who coaches like "their Dad did" or "this is how my coach did it growing up", concedes the fact that what they learned as a kid hasn't been improved upon. Nope sorry, I'm a better father than my father was, and I'm a heck of a lot better coach than any HS or college coach I ever had. Coach a kid with whatever tools best suit him,don't try to impose what you think is the "I'll make him mentally tough way" you're probably doing more long term harm than you even realize. When you try to change the emotional make up of a kid to suit what you think is right, you'll never reach him on a level that will make him a better ball player. |
| baseballdude |
Posted - 11/17/2008 : 13:43:22
quote:
Originally posted by BBall123
While I agree with her in principle,I think you have two different concepts here.The "they are just kids and want to have fun" group of parents and players in my expierience are usually the less talented,less competitive boys and probably should remain in rec ball or at the most AA ball and not come into the majors or possibly even travel ball. that way they stay happy and the constant grumbling and gripeing about the coaches being to strict and competitive and playing time complaints dont bring down the rest of the team and hold those people back from what they want to do, "compete" at the higher levels.
thats what I would like to have as a coach,
And as a side note sometimes I feel that there are a bunch of babies being raised today with no dicipline or heart. Some of these kids today you cant even speak loudly to without them breaking down and crying,they strike out they cry,they miss a ball they cry,they get an out they cry.Then when you try to instill a little bit of grit in them or dicipline while you have them on the field for there benefit and the benifit of the team the parents make you look like the bad guy. What are these kids gonna do at the middle,high school levels? I can see this up to about 10u but at that age if this is still going on you are in the wrong place if you are in travel ball!
I think the momma's should stay out of the coaches way and let him help to develope there boys into young men and ball players.
Thats the way it was done when I was growing up.
just my opinion
Honestly, the kids I see cry in travel ball are the coaches and assistant coaches kids. I think that alot coaches have an expectation that their kids are one of the best in the team and if the kid under performs it looks bad on the entire team. Some kids talk about how their dad is coach of the team and almost over the edge about it and then when they strike out or have numerous errors hence the pressure in on them now. |
| BBall123 |
Posted - 11/17/2008 : 13:38:48
You are right Allsar that I probably overstated it a bit,Im going through this very thing right now with a couple of parents and im ill about it. Old Scool,I also agree with you that there are to many travel teams and are watered down with rec players,and rec is weaker by the loss of those players , makes alot of sense.quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
quote:
Originally posted by BBall123
While I agree with her in principle,I think you have two different concepts here.The "they are just kids and want to have fun" group of parents and players in my expierience are usually the less talented,less competitive boys and probably should remain in rec ball or at the most AA ball and not come into the majors or possibly even travel ball. that way they stay happy and the constant grumbling and gripeing about the coaches being to strict and competitive and playing time complaints dont bring down the rest of the team and hold those people back from what they want to do, "compete" at the higher levels.
thats what I would like to have as a coach,
And as a side note sometimes I feel that there are a bunch of babies being raised today with no dicipline or heart. Some of these kids today you cant even speak loudly to without them breaking down and crying,they strike out they cry,they miss a ball they cry,they get an out they cry.Then when you try to instill a little bit of grit in them or dicipline while you have them on the field for there benefit and the benifit of the team the parents make you look like the bad guy. What are these kids gonna do at the middle,high school levels? I can see this up to about 10u but at that age if this is still going on you are in the wrong place if you are in travel ball!
I think the momma's should stay out of the coaches way and let him help to develope there boys into young men and ball players.
Thats the way it was done when I was growing up.
just my opinion
Not sure I agree about the kids being a bunch of babies. There are some for sure, but I think you've overstated how bad it is.
The logical conclusion of your overall point, though, is that there are probably too many travel teams in the area. I don't disagree. Like maybe twice or three times as many as there should be. If everybody came to the same conclusion, rec/select ball would be really competitive.
|
| Dr. Old School |
Posted - 11/17/2008 : 12:54:24
All Star,
It would not be so bad if teams would classify themselves as they are AA, AAA, Major. But unfortunately teams have to classify themselves as Major, when they are really AAA, or they cannot recruit players to help their teams improve. There are too many parents that are not about to put their kid on a team that has declared itself AAA, regardless of whether that is the best level for their kid to play at. There would never have been a need for a reference of "Elite" if the Major division had not gotten watered down with so many AAA teams.
|
| AllStar |
Posted - 11/17/2008 : 11:44:15
quote:
Originally posted by BBall123
While I agree with her in principle,I think you have two different concepts here.The "they are just kids and want to have fun" group of parents and players in my expierience are usually the less talented,less competitive boys and probably should remain in rec ball or at the most AA ball and not come into the majors or possibly even travel ball. that way they stay happy and the constant grumbling and gripeing about the coaches being to strict and competitive and playing time complaints dont bring down the rest of the team and hold those people back from what they want to do, "compete" at the higher levels.
thats what I would like to have as a coach,
And as a side note sometimes I feel that there are a bunch of babies being raised today with no dicipline or heart. Some of these kids today you cant even speak loudly to without them breaking down and crying,they strike out they cry,they miss a ball they cry,they get an out they cry.Then when you try to instill a little bit of grit in them or dicipline while you have them on the field for there benefit and the benifit of the team the parents make you look like the bad guy. What are these kids gonna do at the middle,high school levels? I can see this up to about 10u but at that age if this is still going on you are in the wrong place if you are in travel ball!
I think the momma's should stay out of the coaches way and let him help to develope there boys into young men and ball players.
Thats the way it was done when I was growing up.
just my opinion
Not sure I agree about the kids being a bunch of babies. There are some for sure, but I think you've overstated how bad it is.
The logical conclusion of your overall point, though, is that there are probably too many travel teams in the area. I don't disagree. Like maybe twice or three times as many as there should be. If everybody came to the same conclusion, rec/select ball would be really competitive. |
| Dr. Old School |
Posted - 11/17/2008 : 11:41:47
What I think most forget, because we have such good baseball talent here in GA, is that really only <5% of the kids playing baseball have the talent, skills, and desire to play major/elite travel baseball. Another 15-20% love to play competitively, and be on a team that competes regularly, but lack the complete skills required to play on a major/elite level. That does not mean they have any less desire, just not all the talent or skills. Then the remainder like to play but are not that interested in working to the degree it takes to play at the higher levels.
All those things are fine as long as the parents understand and admit where their kid falls. Any one of these out of place is not going to be good for them. It is no better to have a major player on a league team than it is a league player on a major team. Both situations are not productive for their development.
Every kid has different dreams and expectations of what they want out of baseball. Some just want to play with their friends, others want to be the best they in hopes of playing in college or the pros. No one should ever tell them that their dreams are wrong. They may be wrong for all some kids, but not all kids.
What parents can't get irritated or offended with are others who chose different paths just because their kid is not suited for that path. |
| BBall123 |
Posted - 11/17/2008 : 05:34:27
While I agree with her in principle,I think you have two different concepts here.The "they are just kids and want to have fun" group of parents and players in my expierience are usually the less talented,less competitive boys and probably should remain in rec ball or at the most AA ball and not come into the majors or possibly even travel ball. that way they stay happy and the constant grumbling and gripeing about the coaches being to strict and competitive and playing time complaints dont bring down the rest of the team and hold those people back from what they want to do, "compete" at the higher levels.
thats what I would like to have as a coach,
And as a side note sometimes I feel that there are a bunch of babies being raised today with no dicipline or heart. Some of these kids today you cant even speak loudly to without them breaking down and crying,they strike out they cry,they miss a ball they cry,they get an out they cry.Then when you try to instill a little bit of grit in them or dicipline while you have them on the field for there benefit and the benifit of the team the parents make you look like the bad guy. What are these kids gonna do at the middle,high school levels? I can see this up to about 10u but at that age if this is still going on you are in the wrong place if you are in travel ball!
I think the momma's should stay out of the coaches way and let him help to develope there boys into young men and ball players.
Thats the way it was done when I was growing up.
just my opinion |
| jscoda |
Posted - 11/15/2008 : 20:45:11
quote:
Originally posted by leftysmom
I know you asked for the opinions of head coaches, but please allow me to weigh in on this discussion. I am the parent of a travel ball player, not a coach. The team my son plays for was a .500 team last year who was never mentioned on this or the Mazzone Cup web sites. For the most part, the parents all got along and the kids were well behaved, no premadonnas. We are not one of the highly competitive teams and did not play the best competition in every tournament we entered. We won one tournament last year and placed in a few others. We finished in the top 20 during our week in Cooperstown. Our team had a good time last year.
I personally know many families whose sons play on the highly competitive teams. Many of them did not have good experiences and their kids were desperatly looking for a new team in August.
Too much emphasis is put on jockying for position for a kids future in baseball and not enough on what this is supposed to be, kids having fun playing baseball. All of this fuss and arguing and one up's manship, and I bet only one or two kids from the crop will ever make it to the majors.
Relax people and let your kids have fun.
I believe she has it right. They are kids. |
| Dr. Old School |
Posted - 11/15/2008 : 09:30:08
everyone is focusing on "Wanting a team of kids that want to learn..." but that seems to be a lot less of an issue than a team having a coaching staff that can continue to grow the players. I saw too many coaching staff's bargaining with each other to get playing time for their kids and not focusing on developing players.
Another thing we talk about is the game getting harder for players each year, but I think it quickly outgrows many coaches ability to teach. It's not the coaches fault because they don't know the details of how to coach. It's not like they can go to an instructor like pitching, hitting, or fielding like the kids do.
Unfortunately, at 12, and definately at 13 and above with the bigger fields, it is about the detail parts of the game (where to be, when to be there, how to approach the ball so it puts you in a better throwing position, how to line up for the right cutoff, etc). Gone are the days of just running 9 players out on the field and just letting them play on athletic ability. |
| 25LOVESTHEGAME |
Posted - 11/14/2008 : 16:04:26
Im looking for the team that stinks with the parental problems. Now that makes for a great Summer |
| AllStar |
Posted - 11/13/2008 : 14:34:21
Chemistry and all the boys still liking baseball and wanting to play again the next season even if it's for someone other than me.
I only care about W-L in that too much losing will mess up both of the above. .500 works if you have enough high points, big wins and going deep into or winning a tournament or two, to make the season a success. |
| coachdan06 |
Posted - 11/13/2008 : 11:41:14
Been out of the coaching role for some years but still see a lot of it through extended family .
It absolutely is not confined or inherent to "top 3 " teams I can assure you. There are AA teams out there with kids throwing the same tantrums and with parents acting out at the games just as badly.
Simply ,The determining factor in how this can affect the whole team atmosphere is The Head Coach. He either allows it or ends it.
He either treats all the kids as same in value or instead allows some to act out immaturely with the bad body language , tantrums and equipment throwing ,often the best players he hopes not to offend or lose by giving them the scolding they deserve but dont receive at home , while other teammates cant even sneeze at the wrong second.
Its the Head Coach's decision and results to deal with. There is no in between if the Coach has any character.
So to me it would not be a decision whether to go "top 3" or .500 it is about learning in advance what type of Coach - person is handling the team and its dynamics.
|
| cougarcoach |
Posted - 11/13/2008 : 11:27:59
Come on, this is a no brainer. I'll take the .500 team with coachable kids - no head cases and great parents every time. |
| bstand |
Posted - 11/13/2008 : 10:14:36
I think that at the end of the day all coaches would probably agree they would rather have a team without player or parent drama, regardless of the record. It allows you to operate undistracted, and focus on getting the team better. However, I get more satisfaction as a coach out of taking a players and teams, with all the associated baggage, from where they are at to where we want them to be. It is a coach's job in my opinion to develop players and correct undesirable behavior. After all, they are kids, and inherently good. It is the behavior that has to be addressed at times. I also find that if you do a good job setting expecations with players and parents on the front side, at initial team meetings, and continue to communicate throughout the season, most issues can be resolved without parting ways. It is easy to give up on a situation that is difficult to deal with. That is the opposite of what we are trying to teach the kids to do.
Having said all of that, taking off my coaching hat for a minute, if as a parent, you strongly believe that the team you are on isn't the best situation for your player, I recommend finding a team that is a better fit. There are some coaches in my opinion, who regardless of their playing resume, aren't good teachers, or engage in the dreaded "daddy ball" to a degree that isn't worth putting up with for a season. Do your homework on the front side. When choosing a team, it is as important to interview the coach as it is for your player to try out and be accepted on the team. |
| leftysmom |
Posted - 11/13/2008 : 09:01:06
I know you asked for the opinions of head coaches, but please allow me to weigh in on this discussion. I am the parent of a travel ball player, not a coach. The team my son plays for was a .500 team last year who was never mentioned on this or the Mazzone Cup web sites. For the most part, the parents all got along and the kids were well behaved, no premadonnas. We are not one of the highly competitive teams and did not play the best competition in every tournament we entered. We won one tournament last year and placed in a few others. We finished in the top 20 during our week in Cooperstown. Our team had a good time last year.
I personally know many families whose sons play on the highly competitive teams. Many of them did not have good experiences and their kids were desperatly looking for a new team in August.
Too much emphasis is put on jockying for position for a kids future in baseball and not enough on what this is supposed to be, kids having fun playing baseball. All of this fuss and arguing and one up's manship, and I bet only one or two kids from the crop will ever make it to the majors.
Relax people and let your kids have fun. |
| greglomax |
Posted - 11/12/2008 : 22:17:32
I would say most would prefer to have the .500 team with no problems. The good thing is the options are very rarely one or the other you have listed. There are teams that are .500 teams that have lots of turmoil and top ranked teams that have great team and parent chemistry.
I guess I have been lucky because we have never been on a team that did not have good player and parent chemistry. |
| FearAD |
Posted - 11/12/2008 : 21:06:20
Top 3 with issues. |
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